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Tonight 9pm BBC2 Lord Sugar Tackles Football
- Thread starter adrian29uk
- Start date
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,639
They can afford to bury their heads in the sand, safe in the knowledge that if it all goes tits up, they'll still get paid.
Unlike, say, the pitch company owed £350,000 by Plymouth Argyle, who will receive 0.7 pence in the pound
Or all the local businesses, schools and charities that greedy Pompey mugged, who were supposed to have received 20p in the pound but have so far not been paid a penny, a year later.
But so long as John Utaka and David Nugent and Carl Fletcher still get paid, that's alright
Unlike, say, the pitch company owed £350,000 by Plymouth Argyle, who will receive 0.7 pence in the pound
Or all the local businesses, schools and charities that greedy Pompey mugged, who were supposed to have received 20p in the pound but have so far not been paid a penny, a year later. But so long as John Utaka and David Nugent and Carl Fletcher still get paid, that's alright
Tricky Dicky
New member
It's easy to complain about the way things are run when you don't have to do anything about it - you can say anything. While it seems a little off-topic, it's roughly the same problem I have with Ian Hislop, he can slag everything off without having to come up with anything constructive.
Seagull over Canaryland
Well-known member
Interesting programme - but no real revelations. The good bits were Alan Sugar talking to Dave Whelan and Harry Redknapp, thought the latter was very tongue in cheek given the pending court case. I also sensed that Sugar wanted to kick the players agent around the room but sadly (for the viewers) showed too much restraint. I hoped that he might have gone on to do a bit more of an expose on Agents fees etc.
Sugar's suggested business plan for footie makes a lot of sense but surprise, surprise there was no hint of the will to do anything about it. Too much vested interest for the Premier League, club owners and players agents. I particularly agreed with what he said about the Pompey scenario and that (sadly for the fans) it will need one or two clubs to go out of business to emphasize the reality and maybe bring about some change.
While it was interesting to contrast the fortunes of Wigan against the big boys in the Premier League, IMHO it should also have contrasted this with the struggle of most lower league clubs and the lack of money filtering down from the premiership, transfer fees and TV revenues rather than leaks away to external parties. There was only a brief mention of Plymouth. I recently had a long conversation a with relative who happens to be the financial director (and life long STH) of another League 1 club. He painted a horrific picture of really how precarious their finances are and why they are constantly teetering on the edge of the financial abyss, struggling to control a deficit, unable to generate any significant new income to help them survive, let alone improve their squad or poor ground. Their ground is located on very desirable prime building land so very tempting to sell it but no affordable alternative site exists. They would love to have a 'Tony Bloom' of their own but is fantasy land. They almost totally rely on their die hard supporters for income. He suggested that up to 20 league clubs, including his own, could well fold in the next 3 to 5 years unless something fundamental is done. I felt very thankful for our current position.
Given this scenario I would also like to see a programme look at the reality of careers and financial circumstances of journeymen pro footballers in League 1 or 2 and compare this with that of Premiership players. What happens if a lower league player is released or has to retire prematurely due to injury etc. Unless you are exceptional like Ryan Giggs, a typical pro footballers career will probably span about 15 years max., a relatively short time in which to earn a living and provide for 'retirement' if they have no other aptitude. Dave Whelan managed to find a very successful career after a bad injury but must be the exception. Therefore it is understandable that players and their agents look to secure the best possible deal whilst they are at the peak of their earning power. But I wonder what agents do (or not) to provide for players longer term welfare if they have to leave the game or to what extent the PFA has to get involved. Maybe this would give a better insight into what players agents actually do for their clients?
Sugar's suggested business plan for footie makes a lot of sense but surprise, surprise there was no hint of the will to do anything about it. Too much vested interest for the Premier League, club owners and players agents. I particularly agreed with what he said about the Pompey scenario and that (sadly for the fans) it will need one or two clubs to go out of business to emphasize the reality and maybe bring about some change.
While it was interesting to contrast the fortunes of Wigan against the big boys in the Premier League, IMHO it should also have contrasted this with the struggle of most lower league clubs and the lack of money filtering down from the premiership, transfer fees and TV revenues rather than leaks away to external parties. There was only a brief mention of Plymouth. I recently had a long conversation a with relative who happens to be the financial director (and life long STH) of another League 1 club. He painted a horrific picture of really how precarious their finances are and why they are constantly teetering on the edge of the financial abyss, struggling to control a deficit, unable to generate any significant new income to help them survive, let alone improve their squad or poor ground. Their ground is located on very desirable prime building land so very tempting to sell it but no affordable alternative site exists. They would love to have a 'Tony Bloom' of their own but is fantasy land. They almost totally rely on their die hard supporters for income. He suggested that up to 20 league clubs, including his own, could well fold in the next 3 to 5 years unless something fundamental is done. I felt very thankful for our current position.
Given this scenario I would also like to see a programme look at the reality of careers and financial circumstances of journeymen pro footballers in League 1 or 2 and compare this with that of Premiership players. What happens if a lower league player is released or has to retire prematurely due to injury etc. Unless you are exceptional like Ryan Giggs, a typical pro footballers career will probably span about 15 years max., a relatively short time in which to earn a living and provide for 'retirement' if they have no other aptitude. Dave Whelan managed to find a very successful career after a bad injury but must be the exception. Therefore it is understandable that players and their agents look to secure the best possible deal whilst they are at the peak of their earning power. But I wonder what agents do (or not) to provide for players longer term welfare if they have to leave the game or to what extent the PFA has to get involved. Maybe this would give a better insight into what players agents actually do for their clients?
34064 Fighter Command
New member
Sugar is right, there WILL be club failures in the future, and it won't be a small club either, it'll be one of the big boys, we can already see it happening at Liverpool. They couldn't afford to keep Torres. Fulham only survive because of Al Fayhid, Blackburn because of the Indians, Wigan because of Whelan, Newcastle because of Ashley, Chelsea because of Abrahmovitch, and the list goes on and on.
The Premier league might as well be a league of 4 teams for all the competition it provides, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City. It's now basically a Manchester vs. London league. Eventually one of these 4 will be even too big for the Premiership and form a breakaway with the likes of Ath Madrid, Barcelona, AC and Inter Milan, Bayern Munich, Rangers and Celtic to form a European league.
Eventually, even Sky will creak when Rupert Murdoch dies and his successors cock up the business model, or AN Other broadcasting platform is developed. This expectation that foreigners will pay Sky subscriptions to watch football on TV only works up to the point that the subscriptions are affordable and there is the appetite for the Premier league overseas, and I don't think this will be much more than a small bubble. The vast majority of people in India or China CANNOT AFFORD satellite pay to view. Then the Premier league really will have to sort itself out.
The Premier league might as well be a league of 4 teams for all the competition it provides, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City. It's now basically a Manchester vs. London league. Eventually one of these 4 will be even too big for the Premiership and form a breakaway with the likes of Ath Madrid, Barcelona, AC and Inter Milan, Bayern Munich, Rangers and Celtic to form a European league.
Eventually, even Sky will creak when Rupert Murdoch dies and his successors cock up the business model, or AN Other broadcasting platform is developed. This expectation that foreigners will pay Sky subscriptions to watch football on TV only works up to the point that the subscriptions are affordable and there is the appetite for the Premier league overseas, and I don't think this will be much more than a small bubble. The vast majority of people in India or China CANNOT AFFORD satellite pay to view. Then the Premier league really will have to sort itself out.
Tricky Dicky
New member
A slightly strange argument IMV. Of course Liverpool could afford to keep Torres, but he wanted to go, and they would have been stupid to turn down £50m (and they definitely go the better end of that deal). Was nothing to do with affording or not.
Secondly, you can say that every club only survives because of its owner, so I'm not sure what your point is there. They are only in trouble if get to to a situation similar to Everton where they can't seel the club - if Kenwright HAD to sell, they would have problems.
I agree there will be big failures at some point though, and AS probably had a point that it should happen for the good of the game overall (albeit painful for those particualr fans). Chelsea were very close to going bust at the point that Roman stepped in.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,019
i'm pretty sure that Sky dont hold the european or global rights, just the UK. thats why you can get a cheaper card to view the Greek transmission as some bars have started to do and a court case is in progress about. i know when i watched games in Holland, they werent showing "Sky" anywhere, though a mate in the industry said they do sell the feed as its their cameras.
spacey
New member
Personally I though Alan Sugar came across as someone who regretted his time spent as a football chairman then regretted selling out when he did.
Taught us little we already knew, re players wages to are too high, clubs like Wigan punching above it weight, debt levels in British football is awful.
Surprised Harry Redknapp does not know roughly how much his players earn also cannot believe that West Ham Utd will be worth £500m in a few years time
Sir Sugars Five point plan
1: Controlling players wages
(personally I cannot see it happening maybe better management of players wages but not controlling, one reason why wages have gone up is because football is now a squad game not a team game)
2: Borrowing to build, not to buy
(To build what a new team!! Once a club has a decent stadium then do they need to build another)
3: Tougher penalties for financial failure
(Agree, nothing worse than clubs owing money to charities such as St Johns Ambulance and local businesses and paying 10p in the £1 to them. Clubs are business and should be treated like businesses)
4: End of the football creditors rule
(Agree)
5: football fund trust
(I believe there is already a football fund trust or something similar in place)
Overall ok programme, expected the 5 points raised shame he did not think of anything radical, personally think I have better ideas to raise and save money at football clubs.
Taught us little we already knew, re players wages to are too high, clubs like Wigan punching above it weight, debt levels in British football is awful.
Surprised Harry Redknapp does not know roughly how much his players earn also cannot believe that West Ham Utd will be worth £500m in a few years time
Sir Sugars Five point plan
1: Controlling players wages
(personally I cannot see it happening maybe better management of players wages but not controlling, one reason why wages have gone up is because football is now a squad game not a team game)
2: Borrowing to build, not to buy
(To build what a new team!! Once a club has a decent stadium then do they need to build another)
3: Tougher penalties for financial failure
(Agree, nothing worse than clubs owing money to charities such as St Johns Ambulance and local businesses and paying 10p in the £1 to them. Clubs are business and should be treated like businesses)
4: End of the football creditors rule
(Agree)
5: football fund trust
(I believe there is already a football fund trust or something similar in place)
Overall ok programme, expected the 5 points raised shame he did not think of anything radical, personally think I have better ideas to raise and save money at football clubs.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,019
Sugars five point plan missed an important 6th point: remove the agents fees. Clubs shouldnt have to pay fee's, if the player wants an agent thats they business and they should pay for it directly.
getting rid of the "football liabilities first" rule should be removed too, i'm sure its not legal but the FA (and others countries) don't challenge it for fear of being seen to interfere.
getting rid of the "football liabilities first" rule should be removed too, i'm sure its not legal but the FA (and others countries) don't challenge it for fear of being seen to interfere.
Tonight 9pm BBC2 Lord Sugar Tackles Football
Sadly is was more like Jake Robinson than Paul Scholes.
Sadly is was more like Jake Robinson than Paul Scholes.
interesting recounting of ITV about to trump Sky and Sugar himself tipping off Sky, who came back with an even bigger offer.
did he cause the future problems, which saw Sky take the game off terrestrial then need to pay even more to keep it
he needed that deal because, at the time of the premier league deal, Amstrad were the sole suppliers of Sky's digital set top boxes. (not now of course) so he needed the deal just as much as everyone else
In 2001, the Premier League made £1bn from the sale of domestic TV rights and £178m from overseas rights.
For the current contract, which runs until 2010, the domestic rights cost £1.7bn and the foreign rights had leapt to £625m - the biggest overseas deal for sport in the world.
Around £100m of that was spent by NowTV to secure the rights for Hong Kong, Showtime Arabia stumped up around £60m for the Middle East and North African market and WinTV spent £50m to show games in China.
i suppose he doesn'yt need to know, because harry's interest is always in the ten per cent "arrangingement" fee
Couldn't agree more.