Tommy Robinson

[de la zouch]

Not if you put Netanyahu and his extremist Religious Zionists in the same frame - fascists - and you can include the Israeli Ambassador to the UK, Ms Tovely, in that too. Far right Religous Zionists with an extreme anti-Islam and expansionist agenda.

There are Jews who are left wing, centrist, right wing and far right in their political outlook just like any other non-homogenous groups of people/ethnicity/nation.

Being Jewish isn’t a political position - @de la zouch ’s brand of right wing Zionism is a far cry from my own humanitarian/left of centre views on the Israeli government. Zionists labels anyone criticising the far right Government as ‘antisemitic’ - the worst form of weaponisation of antisemitism imo because it stifles criticism of Jewish involvement in extreme far right political activism.

‘Robinson’s links with Israel and groups funding Islamophobia are deep. In 2018, a notorious pro-Israel conservative think tank, the Middle East Forum, said that it was helping to fund his legal costs.’

The alliances between the fascist and far right Zionist members of the Israeli government and far right ideologies are stronger than people think despite some Jewish groups trying to distance themselves and despite the overt antisemitism that far right groups have engaged in..

Far-right extremist Tommy Robinson rallies in support of Israel

The British far-right extremist Tommy Robinson joined a pro-Israel rally in London on Sunday, alongside an estimated 1,500 Zionists voicing their support for the occupation state. The counter-demonstration followed Saturday’s...

www.middleeastmonitor.com

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180727-the-unholy-alliance-between-israel-and-alt-right-ideologues/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-are-us-pro-israel-groups-boosting-a-far-right-anti-muslim-uk-extremist/amp/

That said, hatred of Israel as a State, or Jews as a people or typifying Israel as a facist Country when it is only the current government that maintains those far right views IS anti-semitic imo.



How nice it is to be labelled right wing, I am not even by your simpleton definition. I don’t have a right wing bone in my body, have never voted for a right wing party. Last time please stop.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So I don't get your angle at all then, you are just flat out denying it, despite even Israeli publications stating the case that some funding comes from the Right Wing of Israel.

I think the point is that there is (and yes there is, there is indeed) a right wing in Israel but this isn't' Israel' any more than the Farage wank festival 'is' the UK.

 

[Berty23]

Oops. It appears he might have not done correct tax returns. I wonder whether anything will happen based on this story.

 

[Zeberdi]

How nice it is to be labelled right wing, I am not even by your simpleton definition. I don’t have a right wing bone in my body, have never voted for a right wing party. Last time please stop.

I have no problems with that and certainly don’t attack anyone for their political views but at least understand please that it’s these comments below that have given me the impression I have before you start accusing me of being a “simpleton”:


Whataboutery arguments (that were without foundation as it turned out) to counter my criticism of Musk’s enabling of far right content:

So to provide some balance- what about the infamous twitter files, as you refuse to recognise “right wing publications” I’ve given you something from the Grauniad:
Basically the previous owners silenced a whole group of stuff they didn’t like, which is equally as worrying as the current owners actions

Attempting to shut down any discussion of possible Zionist funding of far right groups/individuals and accusing NSCers of even discussing it, ‘antisemitic’:

Hard to get exact figures, but independently estimated at less than 5% from Israeli groups. 5% too much but it’s not a percentage that’s worth discourse. It’s obviously got traction with online antisemites like Chris Williamson and low life (sorry lowkey) but I was disappointed but not surprised to see it repeated on here

To highlight the odd donation from Isreal based funders shows your true colours.

Giving credence to Musk and Farage’s accusations that the Met are engaged in “two tier policing”

The head of the met has just grabbed a microphone and dropped it to the ground when asked about 2 tier policing they are rattled

Your portrayal as Biden as a man with “severe dementia”

Let’s look on the bright side, at least we are not facing the choice between a man with severe dementia and a felon!!

Maybe we have a different idea of what ‘right wing’ actually means - that is entirely possible.

Btw - People can hold right wing views without voting for a right wing party or left wing views without voting for a left wing party by not voting at all - if they do vote, political ideology very often doesn’t match what people actually do at the ballot box these days.

I won’t mention it again ‘out loud’ out of respect for you to self-identify with whatever political ideology and brand of Zionism you wish but you did need to understand that I have good reason for thinking what I do based on your posting history, nothing more and however much you doth protest, that won’t change.

 

[Springal]

 

[ROSM]

Just remember that Al Capone was finally arrested and convicted over tax evasion

 

[Jackthelad]

The left will throw the Islamophobia label at the right and the right will throw the antisemitism label at the left. Some on both sides use the same tactics. We hear things like “Islam isn’t a race” “I’m against Zionism but not the Jews” and so on. It’s complex and it can be a tight rope of what’s acceptable and what’s bigotry or worse.

We have laws that deal with what’s acceptable or not. I suspect Labour will f*** that up soon with a potential new Islamophobia drafting (I hope I’m wrong) but then I disliked how they Corbin was treated with the anti Jewish labels that were thrown at him by some.

Tommy is bigotry is clear there is no confusion with his views.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The left will throw the Islamophobia label at the right and the right will throw the antisemitism label at the left. Some on both sides use the same tactics. We hear things like “Islam isn’t a race” “I’m against Zionism but not the Jews” and so on. It’s complex and it can be a tight rope of what’s acceptable and what’s bigotry or worse.

We have laws that deal with what’s acceptable or not. I suspect Labour will f*** that up soon with a potential new Islamophobia drafting (I hope I’m wrong) but then I disliked how they Corbin was treated with the anti Jewish labels that were thrown at him by some.

Tommy is bigotry is clear there is no confusion with his views.

Interesting post.

Fortunately the people who count in this country are the massed ranks of the dull middle ground. Not the noisy minority on the fringes. The last GE showed that.

What about NSC? One of the most mocked posters on here is someone who has been stridently even handed over the Palestine issue. And their careful posts are met with ridicule for their length. NSC is not primarily a space for glib extremist one liners, but there is an antipathy towards those who take the time to be measured. Which is sad.

In the wider world....all I can say is if you chose shit media you will get shit extremism, with 'label throwing' driving the discourse. I am a BBC man and I simply don't see this (apart from callers to the Nicky Campbell phone in, who are 'not racist. but', etc.)

Only a minority of noisy NSC posters have taken sides. And only a noisy minority of the population are throwing 'the Islamophobia label'.

You 'disliked how they Corbyn was treated' means what? That you disliked how Starmer let Corbyn dig his own grave and jump into it? Well, I was quite content with that, and disappointed only that it took as long as it did to resolve.

Finally, I am not sure I agree with you that 'Tommy is bigotry is clear'. To me he's a gadfly who has found a way to monetize right wing populism. Exactly the same as Farage. He is a danger to the finances of his supporters more than anything else.

Apart from that, 100% agree

 

[HangletonGull]

Back on topic, that Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, who calls himself Tommy Robinson to sound more like an English “Everyman” is a proper f***ing bellend.

Nail on head

 

[Guinness Boy]

I’m just highly bored of every thread turning into the Israel/Gaza thread, with the same entrenched views going round and round and round…

Agreed.

It would be great to keep Isreal / Hamas to that thread.

It’s unfortunate that discussion of one of the most important things happening currently has turned in a tiny number of posters saying the same thing over and over again, either in 1000 word essays or using “left field” videos, so that it’s avoided by 99.9% of NSC.

But it’s even more unfortunate seeing it leak onto the rest of the board.

 

[pocketseagull]

TBF No-one was talking about Gaza until it was Chickens who mentioned it?

It's like someone talking about Russian funding of the Far Right and someone saying stop talking about the war in Ukraine.

 

[chickens]

TBF No-one was talking about Gaza until it was Chickens who mentioned it?

It's like someone talking about Russian funding of the Far Right and someone saying stop talking about the war in Ukraine.

I was watching Zeberdi and de la zouch get embroiled in a war of words that felt like it owed everything to the Israel/Gaza thread, and very little to Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.

I’ve ended up blocking the Israel/Gaza thread because it’s entirely pointless any of us pontificating on it while both states have governments seeking continued conflict, and I didn’t want it becoming the main subject of conversation regarding this particular idiot man-child.

Do we even know where he is now? Still on his summer holidays?

 

[Zeberdi]

I was watching Zeberdi and de la zouch get embroiled in a war of words that felt like it owed everything to the Israel/Gaza thread, and very little to Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.

I’ve ended up blocking the Israel/Gaza thread because it’s entirely pointless any of us pontificating on it while both states have governments seeking continued conflict, and I didn’t want it becoming the main subject of conversation regarding this particular idiot man-child.

Do we even know where he is now? Still on his summer holidays?

What are you talking about?

I didn’t even mention the war in Gaza, you keep bringing it into the discussion not me and now you are the one debating it ffs so keep me out of it please.

However, one can’t have an open discussion about the far right’s link to Zionism and Tommy Robinson’s support of Zionism without mentioning that the Government in Israel is driven by far right Religous Zionists and has been influenced by facism for decades and it is a politik Robinson is openly courting.

I do think you are being very disingenuous here trying to accuse me if turning this into a thread about the war in Gaza but I don’t understand why you want to lay that on me tbh.

 

[chickens]

What are you talking about?

I didn’t even mention the war in Gaza, you keep bringing it into the discussion not me and now you are the one debating it ffs so keep me out of it please.

However, one can’t have an open discussion about the far right’s link to Zionism and Tommy Robinson’s support of Zionism without mentioning that the Government Israel is driven by far right Religous Zionists and has been influenced by facism for decades.

I do think you are being very disingenuous here trying to accuse me if turning this into a thread about the war in Gaza but I don’t understand why you want to lay that on me tbh.

Relax Zeb, I wasn’t accusing you of anything, just coming onto a topic about a very much UK based racist rabble rouser, and finding you and de la zouch deep in discussion of Zionism, it felt to me like the bleed was very obviously from the Israel/Gaza thread.

However as you seem to be in a state of permanent upset with everything I post, just pop me on ignore, I’ll do the same for you, and we can crack on with our lives without me keep inadvertently raising your blood pressure.

TTFN.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

What are you talking about?

I didn’t even mention the war in Gaza, you keep bringing it into the discussion not me and now you are the one debating it ffs so keep me out of it please.

However, one can’t have an open discussion about the far right’s link to Zionism and Tommy Robinson’s support of Zionism without mentioning that the Government in Israel is driven by far right Religous Zionists and has been influenced by facism for decades and it is a politik Robinson is openly courting.

I do think you are being very disingenuous here trying to accuse me if turning this into a thread about the war in Gaza but I don’t understand why you want to lay that on me tbh.

I suggest you listen to this

You really need to pack it in with posting Youtube links from random websites that do nothing other than reinforce your personal POV on all things Middle East

 

[de la zouch]

I have no problems with that and certainly don’t attack anyone for their political views but at least understand please that it’s these comments below that have given me the impression I have before you start accusing me of being a “simpleton”:


Whataboutery arguments (that were without foundation as it turned out) to counter my criticism of Musk’s enabling of far right content:

Accusing others of antisemitism to deflect from a discussion on Zionist support of the far right (eg TR et al)

Attempt to shut down any discussion of Zionist funding of far right groups/individuals and accusing NSCers of discussing it, ‘antisemitic’:


Giving credence to Musk and Farage’s accusations that the Met are engaged in “two tier policing”

Your portrayal as Biden as a man with “severe dementia”


And responding like this when you are pulled up on it by several posters after Bozza disagreed with you …


Maybe we have a different idea of what ‘right wing’ actually means - that is entirely possible. Maybe too, we have a different idea what ‘Zionist’ means too - I am Jewish and believe in the right of Israel to exist and defend herself but I am not aggressively pro-active in shutting down criticism of Israel‘s very far right wing governmental policy or using ‘anti-semitism’ as a tool to silence debate. Nor do I make any apology for criticising Musk or Farage for their role in the riots.

Btw - People can hold right wing views without voting for a right wing party or left wing views without voting for a left wing party by not voting at all - if they do vote, political ideology very often doesn’t match what people actually do at the ballot box these days.

I won’t mention it again ‘out loud’ out of respect for you to self-identify with whatever political ideology and brand of Zionism you wish but you did need to understand that I have good reason for thinking what I do and however much you doth protest, that won’t change.

Oh you really are as NSCs very own Owen (always wrong) Jones. I’m glad you have the time and inclination to do what you’ve just done. It backs everything I think about you which isn’t much.
Btw - I’ve always voted
BTW - have you seen or heard from the POTUS recently
BTW - there are thousands of credible streams of data to undermine the Zionist funding of TR not bs from lowkey, David millar et al
Enjoy the sun if you aren’t spending hours on here looking for “proof” to back up your simpleton position

 

[de la zouch]

You really need to pack it in with posting Youtube links from random websites that do nothing other than reinforce your personal POV on all things Middle East

He loves a bit of Pallywood

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I must say I'm surprised and/or impressed that some posters are so knowledge the situation and also care SO much about it/him to keep on going round and round in circles about the same old arguments.

Happy to say I'm neither. I just like to keep track of what latest stunts the racist twunt has done this time.

As you were

 

[Zeberdi]

You really need to pack it in with posting Youtube links from random websites that do nothing other than reinforce your personal POV on all things Middle East

Er don’t think I have ever posted a YouTube video before ‘on anything‘ to do with the ME from a ‘random website’ My post had sod all to do with reinforcing anything about the ME. The video was about Robinson’s links to that form of Zionism in the UK and US. I’ve now removed it, not because it “reinforces my POV” whatever you think you know what that is, but because it shows clips of Robinson spouting his fcuking hateful anti-Muslim and anti-British government rhetoric so I don’t want to give that **** airtime or risk his words influencing anyone into thinking he has any valid points who might be reading NSC.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I assume your post is directed at me - My posts on this thread have been ALL about Robinson a far right activist and his links to far right Zionist ideologues through funding and activism as people had already mentioned. I only jumped in to say that Israel has a far right Government which Robinson aligns himself with which strengthens his platform globally - Absolutely nothing to do with the war in Gaza.

Understanding the far right influencers and the connections they have to foreign supporters (like the EDF and Robinson etc have to far right Zionist ideology especially in the States) IS an important discussion when it comes to these riots.

Afaiaa, these links between the far right in the UK and far right Zionists ideology have not been explored before on NSC so not making the sane ‘points over and over’.

Part of the problem is that you always assume it's about YOU.

That entire thread is a binfire, utterly worthless and there are a lot of NSC users who don't want that across the board. People - not specifcally you - have tried to sneak it in from everything from the Labour Meltdown to the riots to Tommy to personal digs and argument continuation on non-political threads and I know both myself and at least one other mod have had enough of it.