Tommy Elphick 'best decision I made'

[symyjym]

People were most disappointed at the time when he left because it was considered another local lad was leaving us. Not many thought it 'an abysmal decision' at the time, that's re-writing history.

Every decision is taken on its merits at the time, not how something may or may not pan out.

Tommy Elphick was, at the time, a third division defender whom it was felt wasn't ready for a step up. He would have been kicking his heels in the stiffs if he'd stayed - that's Gus' attitude at the time, and the only thing we could have to go on. People then would have grizzled that he was costing us wages. So he was sold to a third division side.

After playing regularly for that third division side, he is now playing regularly for a second division side and doing well. Good on him.

Hindsight, in judging whether a player would go on to do well, is irrelevant.

Elphic was the golden boy and was predicted to have a good career in football and Cook was very good when he had his chance. Many were disappointed when they left.

This isn't about hindsight, this was lack of foresight from a manager who thought Bridcutt was Real Madrid quality, Buckley was better than Saha and Murray wasn’t Championship material..

Poyet couldn’t see beyond his own nose let alone the future and left chaos in his wake.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Christ that is a load of dogs danglies

Elphick had been out for 18 months, had never played in the Championship and had fallen down to fourth choice centre back behind Greer, El Abd and the emerging Lewis Dunk. At that stage of his career he had to be playing regular football and there was no direct guarantee that would happen with us - as he mentions in the article he needed to make a choice and decided to move down a division to get that.

Cook was fifth choice centre back, who had made one league appearance with us, and remained so when Elphick left and Grant Hall was acquired. The decision taken there was who would be the better prospect Cook or Hall with the powers that be deciding to go with latter thus letting Cook go to Bournemouth whom he had been on loan to for much of that season. That was also a drop in league for a player. What the club did not foresee was Grant Hall having his head turned by the prospect of a bigger salary and life in the Premiership reserves with Tottenham.

So all this abysmal decision making is actually 'hindsight' by you and others, unless of course you foresaw the rise of Bournemouth to its current position the day we sold them Elphick?

You haven't read my posts properly. I'm not making the 'hindsight' decision if you read it instead of playing with your dog's danglies!

 

[spanish flair]

It seems crazy to me that we can bring through central defenders like Cook, Elphick and Hall and let them go but we are unable to develop our own leftback. It is not as though that we have not had the time, as I believe Marcus Painter was our last own left back to play regular first team football.
This is I see as a bad mark against our scouting and development team.

 

[Grombleton]

From what I remember, he was out of contract at the end of a long injury lay-off, so we gave him a short term deal to get his fitness back and as a way of not just leaving him in the wilderness. As people have said, we had Greer, Dunk & El Abd as 3 CB's ahead of him and he wanted to play regularly, so he went. There's no guarantee that if he had stayed with us that he would have reached the heights he is with Bournemouth, the same with Cook.

I wish Tommy all the success in the world but it was right for him to leave, i don't see it as bad business at all on our part - you make the decision at the time based on the factors at the time. If the club had hindsight then i'm sure a lot of things would happen, but they don't - unfortunately fans will always use that as an unfair stick to beat them with.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

You haven't read my posts properly. I'm not making the 'hindsight' decision if you read it instead of playing with your dog's danglies!

I've read it a number of times and has 'hindsight' written all over it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If the club had hindsight then i'm sure a lot of things would happen, but they don't - unfortunately fans will always use that as an unfair stick to beat them with.

So basically they can never be wrong because we can't ever look back at past decisions? It's not a stick to beat someone with, it's hoping that they are learning from the business they are conducting. We'll keep making these mistakes if someone doesn't starting using a bit of hindsight to review decisions. We've had Colunga, Baldock, CMS and COG this season - none of whom are as good as Ashley Barnes, that is not through hindsight, that was just another poor decision.

 

[symyjym]

I've read it a number of times and has 'hindsight' written all over it.

Disagree, it was Poyets lack of foresight.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Disagree, it was Poyets lack of foresight.

Nothing to do with foresight but decisions made at the time using contemporary evidence and thought to back them up - Elphick missed our first year back in Championship, the second was one where we were pushing for the Premiership and acquiring the likes of ex-England internationals Matt Upson in that push, his game time would probably have been limited particularly as he had no experience of playing at Championship level.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nothing to do with foresight but decisions made at the time using contemporary evidence and thought to back them up - Elphick missed our first year back in Championship, the second was one where we were pushing for the Premiership and acquiring the likes of ex-England internationals Matt Upson in that push, his game time would probably have been limited particularly as he had no experience of playing at Championship level.

He was offered a year's contract to see if he could play at Championship standard following a horrific injury, but Bournemouth offered him a three year contract with regular football virtually guaranteed. It was a no brainer decision for Tommy.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Elphick is, at worst, a competent championship defender. Not only that he is captain and has leadership qualities, something very much lacking in our present squad.

It is very disappointing that his potential to play at a high level wasn't spotted and he was let go; clearly it would have been better to have sold El-Abd.

 

[Rookie]

Funny I don't recall a massive outcry when they were sold or the threads wishing we still had them during the years we had one of the best defensive records in the championship.
Its never nice to lose home grown players but a call had to be made and at the time it was correct. Who's to say if either cook or elphick would have progressed as much playing second fiddle to Greer, Upson and maybe dunk.

 

[chaileyjem]

If they'd stayed , lets say, the club would almost certainly have had to sell Greer and Dunk. Greer probably would have gone to another Champ club, had a successful couple of seasons, got picked for Scotland and we'd be moaning about it. Dunk would have likewise been picked up by a QPR or a Leicester or a Derby, been doing fine and we'd be moaning about it.

Not sure how much better our season would have been this or last with Cook and Elphick in the back four. Dunk/Greer have made mistakes (and scored a few goals) but defence has not been our most pressing problem on the pitch. Last season and before that with Upson/Greer etc we had practically the best defence in the championship. What would they have added ?
In any case we'd probably be moaning that the club would be *bound* to be selling them in the summer in if they were still Albion players..."they'll be off" would be the universal cry for any player not deemed to be rubbish. (ie: everyone else)

 

[wehatepalace]

It seems crazy to me that we can bring through central defenders like Cook, Elphick and Hall and let them go but we are unable to develop our own leftback. It is not as though that we have not had the time, as I believe Marcus Painter was our last own left back to play regular first team football.
This is I see as a bad mark against our scouting and development team.

Marcus Painter was signed from Swansea.

 

[scooter1]

Fair play to Tommy, he's done well. I wonder how he'll fare against the likes of Sanchez and Aguero next season..

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Marcus Painter was signed from Swansea.

I think spanish flair meant as opposed to a loan signing.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If they'd stayed , lets say, the club would almost certainly have had to sell Greer and Dunk. Greer probably would have gone to another Champ club, had a successful couple of seasons, got picked for Scotland and we'd be moaning about it. Dunk would have likewise been picked up by a QPR or a Leicester or a Derby, been doing fine and we'd be moaning about it.

Not sure how much better our season would have been this or last with Cook and Elphick in the back four. Dunk/Greer have made mistakes (and scored a few goals) but defence has not been our most pressing problem on the pitch. Last season and before that with Upson/Greer etc we had practically the best defence in the championship. What would they have added ?
In any case we'd probably be moaning that the club would be *bound* to be selling them in the summer in if they were still Albion players..."they'll be off" would be the universal cry for any player not deemed to be rubbish. (ie: everyone else)

Why would we have sold Greer and Dunk? We still had El-Abd when that decision was taken, and we may well then not have needed the loan of Upson. What would have been wrong with Greer / Dunk / Elphick / Cook?

Elphick could have been sent out on loan following his injury. Regardless of all this supposed mitigation, as with Murray and Barnes we simply didn't think they were good enough.

 

[chaileyjem]

Why would we have sold Greer and Dunk? We still had El-Abd when that decision was taken, and we may well then not have needed the loan of Upson. What would have been wrong with Greer / Dunk / Elphick / Cook?

Elphick could have been sent out on loan following his injury. Regardless of this supposed mitigation, as with Murray and Barnes we simply didn't think they were good enough.

If Cook and Elphick were playing in week in week out as many on this thread seem to think they should have been why would the club have been so keen to keep hold of Dunk and Greer to be reserve centre backs. Dunk would have wanted to leave for the same reasons Elphick was let go. First team football. Greer, likewise.
And if Cook/Elphick were here to be reserves to Dunk/Greer/Upson ? then hang on a minute they would have wanted to leave ? No ?
How big a squad do you think we should have. ?

NB: Aaron Hughes is at the end of his career so happy, i assume, to be 3rd or 4th choice and Halford is likewise keen to play for a contract either with us or another Champ club and also a lot older than the Bournemouth pair.

 

[wehatepalace]

I think spanish flair meant as opposed to a loan signing.

Of course he did, I completely misread it, apologies SF.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The question is, would Cook and/or Elphick have played regularly last season with Greer and Upson in the side? The answer is most definitely no.

Just be pleased that the club brought through 2 ambitious, decent centre backs that, due to circumstances at the time, could not play regularly in our first team. We are going to have to get used to this if our academy brings through the quality of player that we hope it does - not all of them are going to get to play regular first team football for us.

 

[symyjym]

The question is, would Cook and/or Elphick have played regularly last season with Greer and Upson in the side? The answer is most definitely no.

Just be pleased that the club brought through 2 ambitious, decent centre backs that, due to circumstances at the time, could not play regularly in our first team. We are going to have to get used to this if our academy brings through the quality of player that we hope it does - not all of them are going to get to play regular first team football for us.

We didn't really need the Upson short term quick fix in the first place. Gus was always looking to where he thought the grass looked greener.