To cut a long story short.......

[Beach Hut]

Standing in the dark.....

Oh I was waiting for man to come..........

 

[W.C.]

History can be spun one way or the other and those with political vents will with the left being at least as bad as the far right.

In terms of comparisons though the left comes unstuck as compared with other empires it was more humane, less bloody and more respectful to locals customs and traditions.

As someone who tends to be more interested in the future than the past the history question becomes what is the historical legacy?

I have heard this called the Anglo-saxon legacy in the fight/defeat of 3 evils. Communism/Facism/ Religious Fundementalism.

I would add to that a global langauge, case law legal system, Railways/infrastructure, Modern Democracy, Cricket and foundation of international human rights/settlements with the Alabama settlement which preceded the Hague Convention.

Loonster, you've mellowed over you NSC years! However I'd like to know why you think a 'global language' is in any way relevant. I don't want to get in to any discussion about the defeating whatever, but language is not something anyone can lay a claim to. English is only the major global language because it was imposed thus. It's useful now, definitely, but to claim credit for it is pure arrogance from anyone if you ask me.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Ah the great debate on how great the British Empire. Yes we did bad things but we also done some great things. Recently I worked with a guy from Sudan and a girl from Sierra Leone. So I got right to the point and asked what their feelings were on the British empire and British rule. Both actually said that their families actually preferred life under British rule as it kept their countries fairly stable.

After all let's look at how wrong things have gone in many African countries and some Asian countries after independence. Pretty much dictatorships, civil wars and tribal infighting.

You can see why some preferred British rule to what they have now.

Was talking to a bloke in sri Lanka who said exactly the same thing

 

[vegster]

The Patriot

Got to be one of the worst historically inaccurate film I've ever seen.

Another Pom bashing film by the Australian Mel Gibson.

Frankly, I gave up watching Mel Gibson films quite some time ago, he doesn't let the facts get in the way of what he thinks is a good story.

 

[pauli cee]

I am not sure that watching The Patriot is a good basis for understanding the history of the British Empire, anymore than Braveheart gives you a good understanding of the history of the Scottish Wars of Independence. Hollywood does not have a terribly good record at getting at the truth of history, just at getting at the personal leanings of the director or at getting maximum bums on seats in the USA.

I would be kind of hoping that no one would be basing their knowledge of the Empire on any movie!!! Just got me thinking, that's all.
I seem to have spent a lot of time in our old colonies, mostly with a massive welcome and positive vibe about 'the old days', I think Zimbabwe and South Africa would be the only exclusions from that, ( for obviously differing reasons)

 

[looney]

Loonster, you've mellowed over you NSC years! However I'd like to know why you think a 'global language' is in any way relevant. I don't want to get in to any discussion about the defeating whatever, but language is not something anyone can lay a claim to. English is only the major global language because it was imposed thus. It's useful now, definitely, but to claim credit for it is pure arrogance from anyone if you ask me.

Your post makes little sense, I am not claiming credit for anything I am just spelling out a legacy, which in part includes a global language, and you are wrong about the imposition. IT was spread through the colonies true but it is America and Technology that made it so. Why do you think the French moan about "Anglo-Saxon economics?" ITs because in any University in the World Economics is taught in English.

The importance of language is that it communicates information, the language of numbers communicates the same. Height, weight, distances etc. The same for spoken language, so the one important thing is that it is mutually understood to transmit information. Hence it will in time promote understanding. The fact it is English is a historical quirk, our empire followed by Technology, America etc. But thats what this thread is about.

BTW It also helped unify India into a function democracy as well. As I said history can be good or bad depending on what sop you talk to, it is the legacy that will last.

 

[Freddie Goodwin.]

It's fashionable to knock the Empire & Colonialism and it certainly is a thing for the past. Some would want us, now, to hang our heads in shame over things done many hundred of years ago, slavery etc, but the Empire did evolve and reform.

It brought many benefits to so many countries, from law, education, transport health, democracy & industry. The Comonwealth bears testimony to ongoing relations & respect.

I feel very proud that this little Island once held one of the largest empires but, in these modern times, would not wish to go empire building again.

 

[portslade seagull]

......I lost my mind

This

 

[BN9 BHA]

......I lost my mind

Not sure how we got to post #14 before this was mentioned

 

[pauli cee]

Not sure how we got to post #14 before this was mentioned

I'm still confused......but then I normally am...

 

[portslade seagull]

I'm still confused......but then I normally am...

Spandau Ballet

 

[pauli cee]

It's fashionable to knock the Empire & Colonialism and it certainly is a thing for the past. Some would want us, now, to hang our heads in shame over things done many hundred of years ago, slavery etc, but the Empire did evolve and reform.

It brought many benefits to so many countries, from law, education, transport health, democracy & industry. The Comonwealth bears testimony to ongoing relations & respect.

I feel very proud that this little Island once held one of the largest empires but, in these modern times, would not wish to go empire building again.

Bit like the Romans in that sense, it is something else to imagine how we did what we did, could never be repeated/ And, yes. Wouldn't wish to go down that road again! (not even for oil...)

 

[pauli cee]

Spandau Ballet

Of course, thanks, very long weekend.....

 

[Return of the Rev]

My uncle before going to India in the 1920'S

 

[Brighton Mod]

Does the history of the British Empire make you feel proud of being British?
Just watching the fictional " The Patriot" doesn't help.
Having spent a good while travelling the beautiful shores of Africa didn't really help either for me.

Just curious like.........

Read the Scramble for Africa, it will help you make your mind up on this question. The Germans were hated in Namibia and Tanzania, The Belgians were hated in the Congo, The Portugese left Angola and Mozambique in mess, Italy were a joke in Ethiopia and Somalia becoming the first European nation to be beaten by and African force in battle under Menelik in Ethiopia/Eritrae, the French enforced their will in Algeria, Chad, Central African Republic. The British left Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria and Rhodesia with an infastructure, a functioning civil service, ties and support. Some things were wrong , some things were exploited, battles were won, but the countries were left functioning/ Look at the trouble spots around the world and most former colonial hotspots were not British. I'm not sure that proud is the correct word but when I was in Somalia in the early 90s I met old men who were awaiting the return of the Somali Scouts, men who wore their medals, Burma Star et al with pride where being British gave an affinity with the indigenous population,

 

[pauli cee]

Read the Scramble for Africa, it will help you make your mind up on this question. The Germans were hated in Namibia and Tanzania, The Belgians were hated in the Congo, The Portugese left Angola and Mozambique in mess, Italy were a joke in Ethiopia and Somalia becoming the first European nation to be beaten by and African force in battle under Menelik in Ethiopia/Eritrae, the French enforced their will in Algeria, Chad, Central African Republic. The British left Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria and Rhodesia with an infastructure, a functioning civil service, ties and support. Some things were wrong , some things were exploited, battles were won, but the countries were left functioning/ Look at the trouble spots around the world and most former colonial hotspots were not British. I'm not sure that proud is the correct word but when I was in Somalia in the early 90s I met old men who were awaiting the return of the Somali Scouts, men who wore their medals, Burma Star et al with pride where being British gave an affinity with the indigenous population,

One of my favourite books as it goes, (and biggest and heaviest!).
Indeed, it amazes me how Leopold got away with what he did, eventually being not much to do with Belgium, Hasn't he gone down in history as the biggest mass murderer of all time
Also the story of Ian Smith, another non associated madman
Indeed, as history portrays, we were probably one of the more favoured empires to be conquered by.

 

[BN9 BHA]

Of course, thanks, very long weekend.....

 

[dangull]

Yes, i would prefer to live in a country at the centre of the largest empire the world has ever seen rather than a little island who has lost it's status as a great world power, and has become the junior partner for the USA in whatever milatary operation they choose to do. Seriously, i don't hold any grudges on the italions after their 100's of years of occupation of Britania. Strange that they were not interested in Scotland though.

 

[pauli cee]

Yes, i would prefer to live in a country at the centre of the largest empire the world has ever seen rather than a little island who has lost it's status as a great world power, and has become the junior partner for the USA in whatever milatary operation they choose to do. Seriously, i don't hold any grudges on the italions after their 100's of years of occupation of Britania. Strange that they were not interested in Scotland though.

At last,someone who is as confused as me.......

 

[pauli cee]

Thanks to everyone who posted on here. I once did a thread about CMS joining Barcelona that got some replies too....happy days.............






Th