Time of fear?

[Kinky Gerbil]

Proof that it's Covid related? They were literally leading normal lives for most of their winter.

You seem to think that New Zealand should just be classed on deaths and cases.

A lockdown of the country and health service isn’t going to cause a backlog?

Be one of the only nations that isn’t affected.

This doctor seems to agree

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/heal...uring-lockdown-a-disgrace-top-oncologist-says

47 percent down



Adele Gautier, research & advocacy manager at Breast Cancer Foundation NZ, said:
“During the 6 weeks that breast screening has been on hold, 200 women who have no idea they’ve got breast cancer have missed out on the mammogram that would have found it. We need to return to full-on screening and get through the backlog urgently, so that everyone gets a timely diagnosis.
“In addition, nearly another 200 women will have found a breast lump while they’ve been locked down at home that will turn out to be cancer. Many will be consumed with worry but may have struggled to see their GP or be facing delays in diagnosis because they’re not a priority just now. Others will be afraid of going out to the GP

 

[portlock seagull]

My tribal ancestry is a mystery to me, I won't be cracking.

It doesn’t matter if you don’t know, others will decide for you...that’s the concerning bit of when societies break down.

 

[e77]

Surely if he’s shown a projection of 500k deaths he should be double and triple checking the source and how figure Was reached.

He didn’t, he blindly followed a man with a previous record of mass errors in predicting/modelling.

The model didn’t even come to the same figure with the same data

That is really, really easy for you to say sitting here six months later with 'only' 40-45 thousand of our fellow citizens dead due to it. At the time lockdown happened - and I think it should have been done a week or two earlier - cases were spiralling out of control and were on track to overrun the NHS. Had we run out of ICU spaces we would have had a much higher death rate and Doctors would have to had started choosing between who had a chance of life and who died.

There is much to criticise in the governments's handling of the outbreak but an abundance of caution is entirely understandable.

If you or anyone thinks wearing a mask or not being able to attend a full football ground isn't a price worth paying to save even one life then it is isn't a lack of intelligence on your part, it asks serious questions of your values and character.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You seem to think that New Zealand should just be classed on deaths and cases.

A lockdown of the country and health service isn’t going to cause a backlog?

Be one of the only nations that isn’t affected.

This doctor seems to agree

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/heal...uring-lockdown-a-disgrace-top-oncologist-says

47 percent down

And Brazil? The US?

 

[larus]

So New Zealand with a "horrifying" response have had 1729 total cases and 22 deaths. They are coming to the end of their winter (very little vitamin D available in that time) and had full social interaction including 30,000 crowds at rugby games for most of their winter.

Now, it's odd you haven't looked into Brazil because Bolsenaro has been practicing EXACTLY what that demo yesterday was asking for (no real surprise as he's another crypto fascist). You'd think, as you've done so much research into what you think is wrong, that you'd have looked into it a bit, but you've done absolutely none into what you think is right.

The net result? Brazil has had around 3.5 million cases and circa 120,000 deaths. That's around 119,978 more than New Zealand.

Do you not find death horrifying?

The problem of trying to compare one simple statistic (Covid cases/deaths) between countries is at best, misleading and at worst, pointless.

New Zealand is a relatively sparsely populated, wealthy country, with decent health system and no direct neighbours. The nearest neighbour is 4 hours away I believe. Maintaining social distancing is quite easy, even without lockdowns.

Brazil is much poorer, lots of people living in cramped, squalid conditions with no chance of social distancing. Also, they can't afford not to work when a lot of them live day-to-day.

So, to compare them is ludicrous.

Also, trying to compare statistics between countries when we don't know the methods of collating the stats is wrong too. In the UK we (from what I've read) record WITH Covid deaths as a Covid death. This is different to OF Covid death.

Do you believe the data which has come out of China? 85,000 deaths in 1,4000,0000,0000 people (approx)?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

That is really, really easy for you to say sitting here six months later with 'only' 40-45 thousand of our fellow citizens dead due to it. At the time lockdown happened - and I think it should have been done a week or two earlier - cases were spiralling out of control and were on track to overrun the NHS. Had we run out of ICU spaces we would have had a much higher death rate and Doctors would have to had started choosing between who had a chance of life and who died.

There is much to criticise in the governments's handling of the outbreak but an abundance of caution is entirely understandable.

If you or anyone thinks wearing a mask or not being able to attend a full football ground isn't a price worth paying to save even one life then it is isn't a lack of intelligence on your part, it asks serious questions of your values and character.

It’s common sense to double check, surely? That’s not hindsight it wasn’t even peer reviewed and from someone who has at least 3 high profile cases of failure.

Maybe if the Gov spent more time shielding the at risk and not advising to put the sick back into homes the death rate wouldn’t have Been so high?

Sweden stopped mass gatherings, which is what most of us have said was the way - so I’ve not said anything about football grounds being shut.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

And Brazil? The US?

Shutting down the USA had cost millions jobs,that’s millions of Americans without health care now among other things.

As a side the CDC is now reporting only 6 percent of deaths had covid as the cause of death - so as with elsewhere shielding the at risk etc was the way to go.

New York gov decided to unload the sickly old Into care homes as well, which didn’t help did it?

 

[Guinness Boy]

The problem of trying to compare one simple statistic (Covid cases/deaths) between countries is at best, misleading and at worst, pointless.

New Zealand is a relatively sparsely populated, wealthy country, with decent health system and no direct neighbours. The nearest neighbour is 4 hours away I believe. Maintaining social distancing is quite easy, even without lockdowns.

Brazil is much poorer, lots of people living in cramped, squalid conditions with no chance of social distancing. Also, they can't afford not to work when a lot of them live day-to-day.

So, to compare them is ludicrous.

Also, trying to compare statistics between countries when we don't know the methods of collating the stats is wrong too. In the UK we (from what I've read) record WITH Covid deaths as a Covid death. This is different to OF Covid death.

Do you believe the data which has come out of China? 85,000 deaths in 1,4000,0000,0000 people (approx)?

I'm not talking about a few thousand each way which might be statistically interesting. I'm talking about a country that has accurately reported every single case, held rugby games in packed stadia and had the same number of deaths as adding both starting players from yesterday's game together, versus a country that stopped reporting when it became inconvenient but has still reported a total number of deaths roughly equivalent to four fully packed Amex stadia.

 

[larus]

I'm not talking about a few thousand each way which might be statistically interesting. I'm talking about a country that has accurately reported every single case, held rugby games in packed stadia and had the same number of deaths as adding both starting players from yesterday's game together, versus a country that stopped reporting when it became inconvenient but has still reported a total number of deaths roughly equivalent to four fully packed Amex stadia.

You are choosing to ignore the points I made (about the differences between developed and developing country, population density/living conditions, health system etc.).

Now you want to quote numbers and compare the number of deaths (without knowing the method of recording those figures). NZ population 5m. Brazil 212m. 46 times the population.

How are the figures verified? Does every death which gets reported have to be tested in Brazil for covid? What happens if they with WITH Covid and not OF Covid? Until you know the BASIS of the stats, they are frigging misleading or irrelevant. If you don't understand that, then it's pointless.

 

[BeHereNow]

That is really, really easy for you to say sitting here six months later with 'only' 40-45 thousand of our fellow citizens dead due to it. At the time lockdown happened - and I think it should have been done a week or two earlier - cases were spiralling out of control and were on track to overrun the NHS. Had we run out of ICU spaces we would have had a much higher death rate and Doctors would have to had started choosing between who had a chance of life and who died.

There is much to criticise in the governments's handling of the outbreak but an abundance of caution is entirely understandable.

If you or anyone thinks wearing a mask or not being able to attend a full football ground isn't a price worth paying to save even one life then it is isn't a lack of intelligence on your part, it asks serious questions of your values and character.

I take it you went out when the flu killed 28,000 a few years ago? Or didn’t you want everyone locked up then?

You might of picked flu up and passed it onto a woman you met in a shop, who then passed it onto her daughter, who then passed it onto her mother, who then passed it onto her friend, who then passed it onto her 80 year old mum in hospital who then died.

You murderer! You didn’t even want a lockdown, you callous monster.

Anyone ever seen The Butterfly Effect?

There are many reasons why more people have died than should have done, mainly to do with elderly people in care homes, which is an absolute disgrace. There is no evidence that says the lockdown has saved anyone, but, as has been shown, it has and will cause more problems than Covid ever will.

I know this is hard to take, but the government messed up massively. They were fooled.

 

[BeHereNow]

You are choosing to ignore the points I made (about the differences between developed and developing country, population density/living conditions, health system etc.).

Now you want to quote numbers and compare the number of deaths (without knowing the method of recording those figures). NZ population 5m. Brazil 212m. 46 times the population.

How are the figures verified? Does every death which gets reported have to be tested in Brazil for covid? What happens if they with WITH Covid and not OF Covid? Until you know the BASIS of the stats, they are frigging misleading or irrelevant. If you don't understand that, then it's pointless.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You are choosing to ignore the points I made (about the differences between developed and developing country, population density/living conditions, health system etc.).

Now you want to quote numbers and compare the number of deaths (without knowing the method of recording those figures). NZ population 5m. Brazil 212m. 46 times the population.

How are the figures verified? Does every death which gets reported have to be tested in Brazil for covid? What happens if they with WITH Covid and not OF Covid? Until you know the BASIS of the stats, they are frigging misleading or irrelevant. If you don't understand that, then it's pointless.

46 x 22 = 1012

Only another 119000 or so to go.

 

[RossyG]

So New Zealand with a "horrifying" response have had 1729 total cases and 22 deaths. They are coming to the end of their winter (very little vitamin D available in that time) and had full social interaction including 30,000 crowds at rugby games for most of their winter.

Now, it's odd you haven't looked into Brazil because Bolsenaro has been practicing EXACTLY what that demo yesterday was asking for (no real surprise as he's another crypto fascist). You'd think, as you've done so much research into what you think is wrong, that you'd have looked into it a bit, but you've done absolutely none into what you think is right.

The net result? Brazil has had around 3.5 million cases and circa 120,000 deaths. That's around 119,978 more than New Zealand.

Do you not find death horrifying?

I've focussed more on Europe than the rest of the world. The horrifying I was referring to was the draconian laws coming in in New Zealand although I see that a court has ruled some unlawful.

Do I find death horrifying? No, not at all. I'm a Christian; I see death as the escape from the fallen world and (God-willing) the entrance to the better one. That doesn't mean I seek out death or wish it on others, of course.

I'm afraid every year we have a flu season and this means death for many thousands. In 2018, it resulted in c.50,000 extra deaths (it was blamed on an ineffective vaccine: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html ).

My point is that viruses in the coronavirus family have a season and kill thousands every year. I don't think there'll be a second wave this year. January to April will be flu season and so people will die by the thousands again. For those, the focus should be building immunity and getting HCQ + zinc.

But cancelling social gatherings, telling people to stay indoors or mask up outdoors is ridiculous. In fact, it's tyrannical.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I've focussed more on Europe than the rest of the world. the horrifying I was referring to was the draconian laws coming in in New Zealand although I see that a court has ruled some unlawful.

.

New Zealand is about as far from Europe as you can get.

 

[larus]

46 x 22 = 1012

Only another 119000 or so to go.

Again, you choose to ignore what undermines your view. Waste of time.

 

[RossyG]

New Zealand is about as far from Europe as you can get.

Which is why I haven't focussed on it. You asked me about it. I never brought it up.

Do you have any thoughts on the annual UK flu season?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Again, you choose to ignore what undermines your view. Waste of time.

OK - since Brazil has a populaiton density that is far greater with a more impoverished population shouldn't much more have been done to lock it down and prevent the spread of the virus? How many deaths do you reckon we could knock off / add on there with a different approach?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Which is why I haven't focussed on it. You asked me about it. I never brought it up.

Do you have any thoughts on the annual UK flu season?

I asked you and you said it was "horrifying" like it was a fact. Are you telling me that, in fact, that opinion is down to absolutely zero research?

 

[RossyG]

I asked you and you said it was "horrifying" like it was a fact. Are you telling me that, in fact, that opinion is down to absolutely zero research?

No.

What are your thoughts on the flu season death figures of this year compared to previous years?

 

[RossyG]

I know this is hard to take, but the government messed up massively. They were fooled.

It all dates back to believing the ridiculous predictions made in March. Instead of following the original plan of herd immunity they wet the bed and imposed the lockdown.



What I don’t get is why the government doubled down on its mistakes and continues to do so.