Time of fear?

[Fat Boy Fat]

I genuinely think a side effect of being at home, locked down with something that no one understands doing the rounds is the discovery that you can become an expert on medicine, virology and international law by watching a couple of vids on youtube.

FFS.

There are a million and one "doctors" spouting nonsense on Facebook to get them clicks, likes and shares.

As an aside, I recently applied for a credit card and accidentally clicked on the Dr. prefix on my application. I now have a shiny new card with Dr. on it, doesn't make me a doctor though...

 

[Megazone]

Can I politely ask about your medical qualifications?

You should check out Bill Gates. Really impressive university qualifications the blokes got. He's been doing a fair amount of population reduction speeches and now he's going to be a funder in a global vaccination. Glad it's RossyG you're questioning. We're basically putting all trust into him because of his wealth. He didn't even finish university!

I saw Christianity was being dropped into this debate earlier. What was Jesus's message about Mammon about?. Also I thought only God was allowed to judge but yet I see a Christian telling a fellow Christian he isn't Christian plus referring to others as "dicks". In my eyes, that does seem pretty judgemental.

I think it's fair to say we're all acting like idiots on here. Anything to get a point....

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Thanks Doc.

I can see the 7 years in Medical School wasn't wasted on you.

Like [MENTION=30583]RossyG[/MENTION] (I suspect, apologies if wrong, but even so), I didn't go to medical school. But I have spent the last 38 years as a 'drug hunter' university academic engaged in research to find treatments for disease. I know how ideas are developed. I know how dugs are tested. I know what 'promising data' looks like. I know what limitations look like and what they mean. I have trained in and taught safety pharmacology. I know how to evaluate risks versus benefits It's my job.

When there is a desperate need, the research community (which is populated by all the guys who do all the work, plus 1000 times as many hangers on, including swathes of poorly trained charlatans and self-deluded twerps, mountains of them in India and China. And America. And even in the UK) grabs onto anything new, anything that may be possible. Hopes are hyped. But only time and randomized clinical trials prove the case.

Let's consider our NSC social and medical expert's first recommendation, that we take Vitamin D and live Covid-free: There is a perspective in an August edition of Lancet that may be open access: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(20)30268-0/fulltext
After some waffle and wishful thinking (remember, this is a credible journal but it can be dped by hype, it is the Journal that published the Andrew Wakefield old bollocks) it accepts there is no evidence for benefit, but basically says that since vitamin D is 'safe' we may as well take it as there is nothing to lose: "Pending results of such trials, it would seem uncontroversial to enthusiastically promote efforts to achieve reference nutrient intakes of vitamin D, which range from 400 IU/day in the UK to 600–800 IU/day in the USA. These are predicated on benefits of vitamin D for bone and muscle health, but there is a chance that their implementation might also reduce the impact of COVID-19 in populations where vitamin D deficiency is prevalent; there is nothing to lose from their implementation, and potentially much to gain."

The prroblem with this (apart from the obvious - it doesn't work) is adversity. Vitamin D is lipid soluble so it can accumulate. This makes it different from water soluble vitamins like vitamin C. When Linus Pauling went mad he advocated vitamin C for treating cancer based on the sort of data that implies vitamin D can treat Covid-19. He was rightly ridiculed but because you can't overdose on vitamin C (you just piss it away) Pauling was, at least, not adding to the burden of cancer sufferers. Vitamin D, however: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6158375/ Not for me, Brian.

Let's consider hydroxychloroquine. There is a perspective in Nature in July (no later news, folks.....). I think this paper may be open access so you can reads it's hand wringing optimism: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41419-020-2721-8

And yet....it really isn't very positive: "However, recent observational studies in 1446 consecutive, non-randomized patients suggest that HCQ administration was not associated with either a greatly lowered or an increased risk of the composite end point of intubation or death11. Still, HCQ-treated patients were more severely ill at baseline than those who did not receive HCQ. More, the toxic side effects were minimal. In a retrospective multicenter cohort study in 25 different hospitals on 1438 patients with distinct medications and pre-existing conditions, there were no significant differences in mortality for patients receiving HCQ + azithromycin, HCQ alone, or azithromycin alone12. Another manuscript reported similar conclusion63, even though a serious “expression of concern” has been issued on this report64. "

My conclusion is don't **** about on a football forum, promoting treatments for a life-threatening virus that are unproven and potentially dangerous unless you actually know what you're talking about.

Finally, if you are vulnerable (to me that means under 55 or with a comorbidity) stay safe and campaign to stay safe. Yes, let others go back to normal (school, work) and fingers crossed the autum spike won't be a spike of Covid-20, a new nasty mutant (I expect it to be a pussy mutant, but we can't yet be certain). Protect the vulnerable. Don't be a dick.

 

[Klaas]

You should check out Bill Gates. Really impressive university qualifications the blokes got. He's been doing a fair amount of population reduction speeches and now he's going to be a funder in a global vaccination. Glad it's RossyG you're questioning. We're basically putting all trust into him because of his wealth. He didn't even finish university!

I saw Christianity was being dropped into this debate earlier. What was Jesus's message about Mammon about?. Also I thought only God was allowed to judge but yet I see a Christian telling a fellow Christian he isn't Christian plus referring to others as "dicks". In my eyes, that does seem pretty judgemental.

I think it's fair to say we're all acting like idiots on here. Anything to get a point....

I just wanted to know how Rossy G came to his diagnosis thanks.

 

[beorhthelm]

You should check out Bill Gates.

you should do too, instead of conspriacy sites deliberatly misquoting the chap. about 9 years ago (seriously that long) he said something about reducing population growth would help poverty and poor health across the world. this was not remotely controversial until this year, when some decided to link him and vaccination to depopulation. if that was the plan, why haven't vaccines for flu and other illness been used for that purpose the past decade?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You should check out Bill Gates. Really impressive university qualifications the blokes got. He's been doing a fair amount of population reduction speeches and now he's going to be a funder in a global vaccination. Glad it's RossyG you're questioning. We're basically putting all trust into him because of his wealth. He didn't even finish university!

I saw Christianity was being dropped into this debate earlier. What was Jesus's message about Mammon about?. Also I thought only God was allowed to judge but yet I see a Christian telling a fellow Christian he isn't Christian plus referring to others as "dicks". In my eyes, that does seem pretty judgemental.

I think it's fair to say we're all acting like idiots on here. Anything to get a point....

You were asked about your medical qualifications. You refer to Bill Gates. Talk about whataboutery. You are basically saying that because Gates is not qualified to make judgements about medicine, you are. Hmmmm.....OK mate.

I know we are supposed to play the ball and not the man but....You recently defended a criticism of your illogical and dangerous musings by invoking serious illness as a teenager. This does not exonerate you from talking bollocks.

I dropped Christianity into it. The reason is very simple. Someone who has declared himself a Christian on NSC has been advocating quack treatments for Covid-19 and suggesting or implying that those who think we need to keep people safe before allowing a free for all are being selfish. An acquaintance of mine was so upset about this for reasons all wuld understand if I explained them (I won't) he PMd me to say he was quitting NSC all the while this egregious selfishness held sway.

I regard the advocation of drugs that don't work and practices that will lead to the deaths of the vulnerable to be an act of devilry. I do not believe in God or the Devil so invoke the terminology so that the relevant poster can feel the depth of my disdain in language that will resonate with him.

Finally I am not sure why I am wasting words on you. You seem to be quite cheerfully oblivious that idle musings about life-ending issues might be a tad inappropriate. Oh well.

 

[Megazone]

you should do too, instead of conspriacy sites deliberatly misquoting the chap. about 9 years ago (seriously that long) he said something about reducing population growth would help poverty and poor health across the world. this was not remotely controversial until this year, when some decided to link him and vaccination to depopulation. if that was the plan, why haven't vaccines for flu and other illness been used for that purpose the past decade?

Here’s one:

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watchv=ozlbeXrb_5A[/video]

 

[beorhthelm]

Here’s one:

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watchv=ozlbeXrb_5A[/video]

yep, 2012. he talks about improving peoples health and education in poor places to reduce population growth. not reduce population.

 

[Megazone]

yep, 2012. he talks about improving peoples health and education in poor places to reduce population growth. not reduce population.

This is obviously down to you to believe, but I'm staying wary of his 'poor places need help controlling their population' views. Like I said, he hasn't even got a university degree! Why has he got such a big voice on this?

 

[beorhthelm]

This is obviously down to you to believe, but I'm staying wary of his 'poor places need help controlling their population' views. Like I said, he hasn't even got a university degree! Why has he got such a big voice on this?

why are you wary of something that is universally agreed is a good idea (reducing child mortality, better health), just because rich fella wants to put up some money to do something about it? your own link tells what it is about, where has this been corrupted?

 

[Megazone]

why are you wary of something that is universally agreed is a good idea (reducing child mortality, better health), just because rich fella wants to put up some money to do something about it? your own link tells what it is about, where has this been corrupted?

Of course this could be lies and all made up, but there really does seem like there's something we're not being told about Gates IF this is true:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.amp.html

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Of course this could be lies and all made up, but there really does seem like there's something we're not being told about Gates IF this is true:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.amp.html

What's this shovel enough shit in the hope some sticks...

Getting a bit desperate now, or is everyone who has ever met anyone dodgy tarred with the same brush?

 

[Megazone]

What's this shovel enough shit in the hope some sticks...

Getting a bit desperate now, or is everyone who has ever met anyone dodgy tarred with the same brush?

Up to you mate what you want to believe. I'm not saying that News report is all true, I'm just showing why people are not completely convinced with Gates as a person right now. The link suggests he was meeting up with Epstein even after knowing about some of his past. It also mentions that they both shared the same philanthropy views. You might be different but if I knew I was associating myself with a sex offender like Epstein, I would cut myself off instantly.

Like I said, it might not be true, but I'm staying wary.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Up to you mate what you want to believe. I'm not saying that News report is all true, I'm just showing why people are not completely convinced with Gates as a person right now. The link suggests he was meeting up with Epstein even after knowing about some of his past. It also mentions that they both shared the same philanthropy views. You might be different but if I knew I was associating myself with a sex offender like Epstein, I would cut myself off instantly.

Like I said, it might not be true, but I'm staying wary.

The problem is now, anyone can write a piece, carefully worded so as not to be libelous, and it very quickly becomes FACT in some people's minds.

You appear to be keeping an open mind, which makes me wonder why you posted it?

 

[Megazone]

The problem is now, anyone can write a piece, carefully worded so as not to be libelous, and it very quickly becomes FACT in some people's minds.

You appear to be keeping an open mind, which makes me wonder why you posted it?

It's a NY times article I posted. Not a 'conspiracy' site. Makes no difference does it?

How about we let the future bring the answers?
I'm confident we will find out the truth in all this eventually as we've seen of recent. But until then, let's just accept none of us really know the full truth and leave it there with this certain subject?
It'll just go around in circles otherwise.

 

[Guinness Boy]

!

What's this shovel enough shit in the hope some sticks...

Getting a bit desperate now, or is everyone who has ever met anyone dodgy tarred with the same brush?

It's absolute desperation. Famous people in countries meet each other all the time, those are the circles they mix in. I've met loads of people in my industry, that's how you keep contacts and do business. I've also met a lot of football fans, particularly bloggers, writers and site owners. If any one of them does something dodgy I don't think I'd be guilty by association.

But for CTs the fact these people have met each other IS the conspiracy. It's proof! Right there! He was at the same dinner party as a nonce. THEY'RE ALL IN IT TOGETHER.

Sigh.

 

[beorhthelm]

Of course this could be lies and all made up, but there really does seem like there's something we're not being told about Gates IF this is true:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.amp.html

if what is true? is there a specific allegation or death by association? he met Epstien, seems a matter of record. thats what he did, meet people, get in with the rich and famous. what leap are you making from this to Gates, world population and vaccines? of course this is a diversion, quite desperate really, tar someone with links to paedos because there's little evidence of anything else.

 

[Megazone]

if what is true? is there a specific allegation or death by association? he met Epstien, seems a matter of record. thats what he did, meet people, get in with the rich and famous. what leap are you making from this to Gates, world population and vaccines? of course this is a diversion, quite desperate really, tar someone with links to paedos because there's little evidence of anything else.

I just don't completely trust people who continue to associate with these sickos even after finding out their past.
Doesn't mean he's guilty himself. I just wouldn't treat him as the Messiah. Each to their own though. If you think that's irrelevant and we should continue to put all faith into him, go for it.
I'm just different to you I suppose?

 

[Albion Dan]

the best way to avoid worst effects of covid, and i cannot emphasis this enough, is to not catch it in the first place.



thats right, because studies found hydroxychloroquine had little positive effect, and a lottery if made patients more sick or lead to heart failure. so doctors err'd against that treatment.

Anyone thinking Hydroxychloroquine leads to heart failure has been sold an absolute dud. A classic case of media manipulation. MILLLIONS of people take it (including my wife) every single day as standard rheumatoid arthritis treatment. Maybe it does help Covid maybe it doesn’t but I’m pretty sure that the pro vaccine solution lobby certainly don’t want a simple fix to the problem when there is a billions dollar prize not far from reach for them now. Big Pharma (and Bill Gates) fund the WHO. The key narrative is manipulated. When it comes to mega money it always is.

 

[Albion Dan]

Exactly that. I had a long drawn out cough after Covid. Luckily it's gone now. I occasionally had some honey in that time and found that mixed with cider vinegar it helped reduce the coughing. Possibly. Or was a placebo..

It wasn’t a placebo. After being in exactly the same scenario and dialling 111 I was told to drink a hot mix of honey, garlic, lemon, and ginger by the nurse on the phone!!! It helped immensely.

The best defence when Ill is a strong immune system. This is developed with vitamin c and d, fresh air, exercise, positive mind set. All the things that lockdowns have made more difficult and people more vunerable if they catch it.