[Politics] Time for Parliamentary change ?

[Seasidesage]

What do we need MP's for let alone a parliament ? Why not have debates from interested parties on the TV, votes for all via the internet and let the nation decide everything truly democratically? We'd make some mistakes but at least they'd be our mistakes, we'd end nepotism in government, back handers, lobbyists, self interest and croynism. Not to mention policies designed to benefit the elite.

True democracy 1 person 1 vote on everything...Viva La internet revolution!!!

 

[Creaky]

While it's true MPs can no longer claim for a mortgage of a second home they can claim for rent so MPs instead rent out their second London homes while claiming rental allowances plus they can still claim other allowances on second homes such as utility costs, so you buy a London home and rent it out with gas water and electricity as part of the rent, most rentals show a return of 30% per annum then you rent a property to stay in full costs for which you claim back which effectively means your mortgage is paid on a second home while you live rent free it's actually slightly better than when they could claim mortagae relief mind you some expences have been stopped such as gardening, cleaning for example.

With regards to the cost of relocating Parliment and the civil service each MP would get the use of his or her own own set of rooms and office space within the complex and being purpose built would have all the latest off site remote working communication AIDS for conference calls with civil servants.

Where do you get the idea that landlords see a return of 30% on capital.

If you have the means anyone can buy a property as an investment and rent it out. Then there is the problem of renting a property for a maximum of £1,900 a month in London and finally London MPs don’t qualify for accommodation allowances in London. Your cunning plan doesn’t hold water.

Would providing residential rooms in a complex really be possible for less than £50 a night? The maximum allowance currently for accommodation outside London is roughly £1,400/month.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Long said I can't see why we don't build a purpose built, security focused and cost effective building around the NEC, international airport, centre of the country and good road and rail links without the congestion of Westminster.

The Westminster Building can be sold to Maccy D's for a drive through and everyone's happy!

 

[A1X]

Personally, I would be in favour of a massive redistribution of power in the UK. My fag packet plans as follows;

• UK Parliament reduced to 301 MPs, elected by PR list system. Whoever can command a majority of this becomes PM and forms Government.
• This is moved to a new building in London with modern facilities.
• This Parliament deals with UK-wide issues (international relations, defence, overall budget, agriculture).
• Establishment of English Parliament based in Manchester. Elected through STV the same as the Scottish Parliament.
• First leader of each devolved nation (England, Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland) through a majority in these chambers (again based on Scotland system).
• These deal with issues at a sub-national level (education, transport, health), although these can be superceded in times of national emergency by UK Government (e.g. during a pandemic).
• If two or more First Ministers request it, any UK Government decision can be put to a vote across all four sub-national Parliaments and if three vote against then a veto is given and the UK Government decision is rescinded. For example, if the UK declares war and the Governments of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland oppose it then they can veto the decision.
• Abolishment of the House of Lord's and replacement with an assembly of various constitutional and other experts to scrutinise legislation (replacement of committees).

As to the Palace of Westminster itself, obviously it's a building of enormous national importance and symbolism regardless of it's purpose so should be saved and preserved, and not using it as a day-to-day Parliament building would obviously make that a whole lot easier. Future use TBC.

 

[Creaky]

What appears to be being missed by those in favour of moving Parliament is the difference between Parliament and government.

All the major ministries are based in London including Downing Street. Decisions will still be made in London.

 

[Pavilionaire]

What appears to be being missed by those in favour of moving Parliament is the difference between Parliament and government.

All the major ministries are based in London including Downing Street. Decisions will still be made in London.

It seems to work fine in the EU: Parliament in Strasbourg, Commission in Brussels, ECJ in Luxembourg.

If we simply refurbish the Houses of Parliament then we pass up a once in a lifetime opportunity for a root and branch reform of how MPs work, vote and interact with lobbyists, the press, their civil servants.

God knows, this coronavirus has showed us we need to be able to work remotely, and that means connectivity. We all work better with air, light, space, comfort - all these things our present Parliament buildings lack.

The annoying thing is we've already successfully done this with the new Scottish Parliament building. In her opening speech the Queen described Holyrood as a "landmark for 21st century democracy". Indeed it is, we have the template to do this so let's get it done.

 

[Blue3]

What appears to be being missed by those in favour of moving Parliament is the difference between Parliament and government.

All the major ministries are based in London including Downing Street. Decisions will still be made in London.

Equally we now live in an age where face to face meeting are a thing of the past time to fully engage in other means of meeting and making decisions

 

[Steve in Japan]

Very happy to see the ******** queuing - might make them realise what the rest of us are doing all day. Encourage them to find a path back to normality ASAP.

 

[beorhthelm]

What appears to be being missed by those in favour of moving Parliament is the difference between Parliament and government.

All the major ministries are based in London including Downing Street. Decisions will still be made in London.

thats a very good point, a lot more cost than simply a parliament building.

It seems to work fine in the EU: Parliament in Strasbourg, Commission in Brussels, ECJ in Luxembourg.

and thats a terrible example of unnecessay increase of cost and bureaucracy, and they dont have the many ministries to consider.

 

[Pavilionaire]

thats a very good point, a lot more cost than simply a parliament building.


and thats a terrible example of unnecessay increase of cost and bureaucracy, and they dont have the many ministries to consider.

By sharing the centres of authority it reinforces the notion of a union, and that unity is something you cannot buy. If you try and save money then - yes - you'd put everything in the same location, but it is not about saving a few quid, it is about your institutions being fit for purpose and being representative.

 

[maltaseagull]

I guess the only argument against button voting is that some of them aren't the brightest and will push the wrong button.

With the walking through the lobbies they have to show what way they are voting, big if voting against party.

I do agree that a custom built, fit for purpose parliament building in Birmingham or something would be much cheaper and more sensible than renovating current building.

I suspect the whips like the divisions as they can see who doesn't vote as the party wants.Although I suppose they could still see who pressed aye or no.
I would definitely vote for a free vote, where MPs vote on the issue rather than the party line but that will never happen

 

[Creaky]

It seems to work fine in the EU: Parliament in Strasbourg, Commission in Brussels, ECJ in Luxembourg.

If we simply refurbish the Houses of Parliament then we pass up a once in a lifetime opportunity for a root and branch reform of how MPs work, vote and interact with lobbyists, the press, their civil servants.

Yes it does work for the EU - At a price!

Seeing as the most economical option for carrying out the necessary maintenance of the Palace of Westminster will mean it being out of action for a number of years, what is there to prevent the changes, (which I incidentally agree are desirable), from being carried out anyway?

 

[beorhthelm]

By sharing the centres of authority it reinforces the notion of a union, and that unity is something you cannot buy. If you try and save money then - yes - you'd put everything in the same location, but it is not about saving a few quid, it is about your institutions being fit for purpose and being representative.

thats some nice lipstick on a pig of a solution. following this they should move EU parliament round all the members, with the presidency, for full sense of inclusion. back to the UK, we could rotate between Holyrood, Cardiff and Belfast.

still that problem of the ministries and the thousands there that would need to move too. i suppose we go full radical and make all civil service work from home, or local offices, and remote into virtual Departmental office as the ministers move round the nations, like a travelling circus.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COVID OR BREXIT

Did did you see the MPs trying to queue up, maintaining social distancing, to take hours to try and carry out a single vote today ?

Isn't it about time (given the huge amount of work that needs doing on the palace of Westminster) that we moved Parliament into a new building where we could vote done in a manner actually reflecting the 20th (let alone 21st Century) and not go through this daily farce of going through the lobbies to get the business of Britain done. You can push a button FFS and get on with the next issue.

How much have they quoted to get all the work done while Parliament sits. Build them a new Hove Town Hall type building and move them out.

Personally, I think Parliament should be moved somewhere up north, then see which of the t***ts want to represent me, when they are based in Preston

But, back to reality. should we give the Palace of Westminster back to the people as a museum of how politics used to be done and get a new Parliament Building ?

3 options, It really couldn't be any easier

I would love to see the whole apparatus moved to a city in the North or Midlands. I suspect that JRM and his friends would develop a new enthusiasm for online voting should this happen. The only reason that I could see the Tories supporting this would be to hang on to their new northern seats.

 

[WATFORD zero]

thats some nice lipstick on a pig of a solution. following this they should move EU parliament round all the members, with the presidency, for full sense of inclusion. back to the UK, we could rotate between Holyrood, Cardiff and Belfast.

still that problem of the ministries and the thousands there that would need to move too. i suppose we go full radical and make all civil service work from home, or local offices, and remote into virtual Departmental office as the ministers move round the nations, like a travelling circus.

I assume you are aware that less than 5% of the civil service have been going into the Westminster estate (incl Whitehall and Downing street), with maybe another 5% popping in once a week ever since lockdown (And those being mainly Private offices and Press offices.)

All the rest are currently working from home. And those figures are generous !

 

[rippleman]

Electronic voting should be the method in modern times, but it renders the whips redundant because it becomes anonymous.
Whips are worried about rebellious MPs.

Heaven forbid that an MP should vote in accordance with their conscience and in line with their constituents' wishes, rather than being bullied or bribed by the whips to vote as they are told.

I don't think you understand the concept of a "parliamentary democracy"

 

[beorhthelm]

I assume you are aware that less than 5% of the civil service have been going into the Westminster estate (incl Whitehall and Downing street), with maybe another 5% popping in once a week ever since lockdown (And those being mainly Private offices and Press offices.)

All the rest are currently working from home. And those figures are generous !

of course, my man in the FO is quite enjoying it. its what made me think of it.

 

[rippleman]

overlooks there is more to parliament and being an MP than debates and voting. more goes on in the committees, and theres the constituency work to be done.

Of course there is.

But how can you vote on a proposition unless you have heard both sides of the argument? And look at the hours where there is meaningful business in the Commons! Look at the length of the parliamentary day, the ridiculous amount of holidays they get, the fact that many of them have accommodation on the doorstep so no long commutes every day. And often the Commons doesnt even sit on a Friday.

Maybe if they took less holidays and worked longer hours they could listen to the important debates AND do their constituency work.

Just a thought.

 

[WATFORD zero]

of course, my man in the FO is quite enjoying it. its what made me think of it.

Well, why are you saying it's a problem

still that problem of the ministries and the thousands there that would need to move too. i suppose we go full radical and make all civil service work from home, or local offices, and remote into virtual Departmental office as the ministers move round the nations, like a travelling circus.

when the vast majority are already doing it

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Heaven forbid that an MP should vote in accordance with their conscience and in line with their constituents' wishes, rather than being bullied or bribed by the whips to vote as they are told.

I don't think you understand the concept of a "parliamentary democracy"

MPs rarely vote according to their constituents' wishes. Stephen Lloyd did and then lost his seat.
Rarely do the government allow a 'free vote'. I know capital punishment ie hanging was one.