Three Lions In The Dirt

[Giraffe]

I agree Capello is not the man. I would edge towards a player with some management exeperience but who has played in the premier league, a man who understands English football but also has a good view of the South American passing style. I think you need a bit of both.

Frankly Gus Poyet would be perfect for England in every way. But Shhhusssssh

 

[andywhing4england]

The best man to take us forward is still a foreigner. No english managers are good enough tactically to get us play the way we need to be which is the short passing game. I wish i could say the best manager for England will be English but he isn't, it's a foreigner who has the tactical know-how to get the team passing the ball on the ground. Not quite sure who this johnny foreigner is yet but give it time...

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

appoint Shearer as caretaker for the Wales match in March,

That must be a joke. Shirley.

 

[Comedy Steve]

Oh dear.

All this talk of only one person being the problem...

This!

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Capello needs to be sacked purely because tactically he has been exposed. He was even exposed long ago when he managed Juventus who were played off the park by Arsenal 4-1. During the World cup we effectively played without a midfield holding player (don't tell me Barry does that role because he doesn't) and then wondered why our midfield gets overrun. Mourinho sometimes plays 3 at Real, Chelsea normally play with 2. His 4-4-2 formation is reminiscent of Mike Bassett.

There are other issues of course. The immaturity of players who get bored within 5 minutes of setting foot in the camp (Good job the Cricketers don't think this way as the Ashes would be lost already) , too many ego's not willing to do the donkey work and the age old problem of the uncomfortability of the ball at players feet. Don't, however, tell me that a team with Gerrard, Ashley Cole, Rooney et al can't be marshalled to beat USA, Algeria and Montenegro in competitive games which Capello can't seem to do.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Lets all get carried away here shall we!

we are suffering horrendously from an injury crisis...Rooney, Terry, Cole, hart, Lennon, Lampard, Defoe, Zamora. All players who would walk into the England team and that is as near as dammit the heart of the team.

What last night did show, and Southgate was 100% correct, is that yes by all means start to bring in youngsters and inexperienced players, Bothroyd etc You must have a core of experienced players around to guide these players in.

the other isue last night wa sthat France had players regularily playing together in the premiership ( with Arsenal - Nasri, Sania etc) We had players who struggle to get anywhere near Premiership starts, Adam Johnson is the perfect example of that where the manager doesnt even rate him and we think he is the next Beckham.

Personally I think one of the main issues we have and it doesnt matter who is manager is that we do not have a replacement for Beckham and we may try these players, we are finding no one can take corners like him, take free kicks like him and spread the passes like him....

We have tried these fabulously sucessful managers like Sven and Capello, they take one look at the derth of talent and do what they can with them. That is the issue

 

[keaton]

At least the rugby and cricket teams are FLAIR at the moment!
And they're not all twats like the football team.

(Cue boring people talking about how boring rugby and cricket is)

 

[sten_super]

Lets all get carried away here shall we!

we are suffering horrendously from an injury crisis...Rooney, Terry, Cole, hart, Lennon, Lampard, Defoe, Zamora. All players who would walk into the England team and that is as near as dammit the heart of the team.

What last night did show, and Southgate was 100% correct, is that yes by all means start to bring in youngsters and inexperienced players, Bothroyd etc You must have a core of experienced players around to guide these players in.

While I agree with this, what really dismayed me last night was not the display of Gibbs, Henderson, etc. but that of the senior players. Gerrard often has ineffective games for England, but last night he was positively terrible. I lost count of the number of times he gave the ball away. The same goes for the seemingly rapidly decling Gareth Barry, while Ferdinand was guilty of not picking up his man for their first goal. What's more, there was not an ounce of leadership between them. I'm not much of a fan of John Terry, but the one thing I would say is that he's a great leader of players.

the other isue last night wa sthat France had players regularily playing together in the premiership ( with Arsenal - Nasri, Sania etc) We had players who struggle to get anywhere near Premiership starts, Adam Johnson is the perfect example of that where the manager doesnt even rate him and we think he is the next Beckham.

I think last night really illustrated how badly the Premiership has damaged the national team. Is our second best right back really a centre back playing out of position (Jagielka)? When our first choice 'keeper was ruled out, we had to call up a 21 year old Championship 'keeper in his place. Our 6th(?) choice striker is a 28 year old, admittedly in good form but generally average throughout his career, playing in the Championship (Bothroyd). As you point out, some of our 'key' players struggle to get a game for their club side. The most obvious example here is Keiron Gibbs, England's second choice left back, who is kept out of the Arsenal side by Gael Clichy, the third choice French left back.

 

[jakarta]

At least the rugby and cricket teams are FLAIR at the moment!
And they're not all twats like the football team.

(Cue boring people talking about how boring rugby and cricket is)

Rooney et al ARE twats but sadly they don't appear to be TALENTED twats (at least not at this level and yes I know the Spud Faced One wasn't playing)


I'm never bored by England beating the Aussies at anything btw although Rugby & Cricket especially pisses them off - I am going to be in Melbourne on Boxing Day for the 4th Test and hope we have it wrapped up by that time

 

[Hotchilidog]

Oh dear.

All this talk of only one person being the problem...

Quite. The problem is much more deep lying than who the manager is. The manager will always be hamstrung by the lack of technical ability that his charges actually have.

The truth most English players couldn't trap a bag of cement let alone combine to smoothly pass the ball from end of the field to another.

Stop teaching kids to win, teach them how to play first and we might just start progressing.

Also, if Redknapp is the answer you must surely be asking the wrong question.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Didnt Sven have a less than impressive track record in FRIENDLIES? Incl a 3-1 loss to power houses Australia at Upton Park.

 

[Sheebo]

One thing I'd say is that of those that started last night only Rio and Stevie G would make my 1st eleven HOWEVER there is not enough young talent coming through at all bar Adam Johnson. The future isn't bright that's for sure.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Lets all get carried away here shall we!

we are suffering horrendously from an injury crisis...Rooney, Terry, Cole, hart, Lennon, Lampard, Defoe, Zamora. All players who would walk into the England team and that is as near as dammit the heart of the team.

We have tried these fabulously sucessful managers like Sven and Capello, they take one look at the derth of talent and do what they can with them. That is the issue

Going back to my original post, the "dark days" under Taylor were when we were fielding sides that included Seaman, Parker, Pallister, Adams, Ince, Gascoigne, Platt and Shearer.

I would suggest that ALL of those players would get into an England 1st XI now, with Ashley Cole, Gerrard and Rooney making up the rest. Therefore, injuries to our so-called stars like Terry, Hart, Lennon, Lampard, Defoe and Zamora is a moot point. All bar Bobby were at the World Cup but either didn't play or didn't deliver.

That said, I believe that a manager like Redknapp would get the best out of what talent we do have, so that we'd be beating Montenegro and getting a draw against the likes of France.

Look what he's done with Gareth Bale, Huddlestone, Dawson.

Cappello is as clueless as Graham Taylor was

 

[Mendoza]

Lets all get carried away here shall we!

we are suffering horrendously from an injury crisis...Rooney, Terry, Cole, hart, Lennon, Lampard, Defoe, Zamora. All players who would walk into the England team and that is as near as dammit the heart of the team.

These are players who shamed the nation in the world cup and many wanted out in favour of a new generation. So why should they walk back in?

Zamora came in after but he is 30, not really part of "the future," he failed to score, got injured, then we went with someone older in Kevin Davies. Makes no sense.

 

[Icy Gull]

I'd happily see every player from the South African debacle dropped permanently. making me angry again just thinking how shocking and lacklustre they were. Especially Shrek and his comments about the booing - twat.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It's also worth reviewing England's stats against the "big" nations of Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Italy, France, Germany and Holland. After last night, our record over the last 4 years since McLaren took over is:

P11 W1 D3 L7 F9 A18

In Premier League terms that's 6 points in 11 games. Over a season that's bottom of the table on 21 points after 38 games. Cappello's own record against the big boys is W1 D1 L5.

That tells you how good the Golden Generation really are. No one player's got more than 2 goals for England in those games, meaning Matthew Upson is joint top scorer with John Terry and Jermain Defoe.

Wayne Rooney has almost 70 caps but only 1 goal against a "big" side - in 2005 vs Argentina. Lineker managed 12 in his career, Owen 9, Shearer 7.

The more you look at the stats the worse it gets.

 

[The Large One]

It's also worth reviewing England's stats against the "big" nations of Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Italy, France, Germany and Holland. After last night, our record over the last 4 years since McLaren took over is:

P11 W1 D3 L7 F9 A18

In Premier League terms that's 6 points in 11 games. Over a season that's bottom of the table on 21 points after 38 games. Cappello's own record against the big boys is W1 D1 L5.

That tells you how good the Golden Generation really are. No one player's got more than 2 goals for England in those games, meaning Matthew Upson is joint top scorer with John Terry and Jermain Defoe.

Wayne Rooney has almost 70 caps but only 1 goal against a "big" side - in 2005 vs Argentina. Lineker managed 12 in his career, Owen 9, Shearer 7.

The more you look at the stats the worse it gets.

Not sure the point you're making here. Are you using these stats to back up the contention that England's ongoing malaise is largely down to Capello?

 

[Durlston]

I put Three Lions on the jukebox, Tuesday night in the Anglican, Charlton. Got there quite early for a few games of pool. Was playing a fellow Barnet fan and was showing off a bit, clearing up the yellows with a few FLAIR shots until the brother of the girl I'm playing says to me "You're reds, you dick!" I was so pissed I hadn't noticed. Goes without saying I lost that frame.

England football team just depresses me. I don't know when I'll next watch them - if at all. Total apathy.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The point I'm arguing is this IS as bad as we've been since the Taylor years.

There's a perception that we have class players and that they're somehow better than, say, England's barren periods of the 70s or first half of the 90s.

The facts are that Rooney's output is worse than Lineker / Shearer and Platt and he just doesn't score against the big sides, while there's no evidence to suggest Rio, Gerrard and Lampard are any better than, say, Adams, Ince or Beardsley.

 

[Goring Gull]

It seems blatantly obvious to me - It's not lack of ability or talent - the players just aren't interested, the clubs aren't interested in releasing them for obvious reasons. And after two World cup disapointments ( from the GOLDEN generation the fans don't really care much either.

All adds up to a recipe for disaster.