[News] There's no need to panic buy petrol

[beorhthelm]

Maybe because BP didn't mention it in their statement ?

sure, but you know journalist used to do a bit of investigating.

 

[beorhthelm]

... I asked if there was a maximum amount you could have and she said it's not worth it as 70% of the spend on fuel was less than £20.

when filling up yesturday i noted how many were topping up, short time at the pump some could barely have put a tenner in. did mean the queue moved quickly though.
other end, one was filling up their van and reckon two jerry cans, was there ages.

 

[jessiejames]

Yet they were coping with a big driver shortage long before Brexit, without all this panic buying whipped up by those with an agenda (the bigger problem has been getting those who wish to join the industry7 into work as training and testing HGV drivers has been dramatically affected by the pandemic with more waiting to join than were lost by Brexit)

Simply the industry isn't attractive to work in, (as others have pointed out, poor working conditions, away from home for long periods of time, poor roadside facilities, etc) Something to address those shortages could easily have been done before Brexit, improve facilities, etc and pay higher wages but it is a privately run industry, not Government run. There wasn't this public clamour to blame the Government then for a shortage of drivers before Brexit, or to fix the issues within the industry (conditions, facilities, wages)

How many industries, businesses, etc are fully staffed, with every role always filled? how many have gaps which aren't actively being filled? Why would the Government be responsible for filling gaps in privately run businesses and industries?

So why now suddenly it's the Government to blame for it all is beyond me

Improve facilities, yes definitely build Truck stops not service stations, but where, there is a lot of space but planning permission that's another issue.

Improve pay, yes definitely but how, haulage companies spend so much a year on keeping lorries on the road due to legislation, ie safety inspection every 6 to 8 weeks, price of Derv. Unless this Government look at these, and listen to the drivers instead of RHA and Logistics uk, things will not get better.

 

[cunning fergus]

1) Not sure where that information comes from as there have been declining numbers of HGV drivers for 10 years at least. Pandemic is also part of the problem but the shortage goes a lot deeper than that. BREXIT is a more significant hit.

2) Because we hadn't hit the problem , we have now and the loss of so many drivers because of BREXIT tipped the balance. It did not cause it , it just precipitated it. The problem would have slowly hit us .

3) If BREXIT and foreign drivers were not the issue why is the government thinking about relaxing VISA rules?

4) the problem is that to maintain a society there are some key essentials that need to be provided food, education, health , power ( gas, electricity, fuel) , water and communications (rocketed in importance in lockdown ) and so HGV drivers become important as they make sure these are delivered to a point of contact.

5) Not suddenly. Governments role is not to provide these facilities directly but to ensure they is sufficient otherwise society breaks down .

Just look at the procrastination about getting the army involved , the government is not governing in a timely manner.

What’s weird is that of the 6m plus EU citizens that decided to apply for residency in the U.K. post BREXIT, it appears none of them were HGV drivers because they all left.

https://www.newsweek.com/britain-re...tizens-seeking-remain-uk-after-brexit-1606407

It’s not like they went to Belgium?

https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgi...00-lorry-drivers-to-keep-shop-shelves-filled/

Neither have they moved to europe to create a surplus of drivers in the EU.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-looming-truck-driver-shortage-trucker-haulier-brexit-hgv/

They must be somewhere…………in a convoy no doubt, looking out for Bears. On the plus side with less truck drivers about we should expect the murder rate of prostitutes to drop. So it’s not all bad news.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

On day one there was a few queueing for petrol at our local Tesco. Since then everything has been normal. Whilst we are not in a big city the A350 is a pretty busy link between the M4 and the coast so there is a decent amount of traffic. Not sure whether its down to a lack of panic buying or not.

 

[jessiejames]

when filling up yesturday i noted how many were topping up, short time at the pump some could barely have put a tenner in. did mean the queue moved quickly though.
other end, one was filling up their van and reckon two jerry cans, was there ages.

This is the problem, forecourt staff can't check every car and turn away vehicles with more than half a tank, and I would not expect them to, so maybe a minimum spend might stop this until this situation is over.

 

[jessiejames]

What’s weird is that of the 6m plus EU citizens that decided to apply for residency in the U.K. post BREXIT, it appears none of them were HGV drivers because they all left.

https://www.newsweek.com/britain-re...tizens-seeking-remain-uk-after-brexit-1606407

It’s not like they went to Belgium?

https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgi...00-lorry-drivers-to-keep-shop-shelves-filled/

Neither have they moved to europe to create a surplus of drivers in the EU.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-looming-truck-driver-shortage-trucker-haulier-brexit-hgv/

They must be somewhere…………in a convoy no doubt, looking out for Bears. On the plus side with less truck drivers about we should expect the murder rate of prostitutes to drop. So it’s not all bad news.

I don't find this funny when Clarkson said it on top gear many years ago, in fact still don't. Then again being a HGV driver maybe I'm being to sensitive.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

That is absolute and complete rubbish.

Throughout this thread, the majority of people (who aren't blaming a BBC conspiracy) have blamed an underlying shortage of HGV drivers which has been building over the last 10 years and which has now been accelerated by Covid and Brexit, all under the same Government. See if you can spot which 2 of these 3 people think they are responsible for ?

And yet you and others have been claiming throughout this thread that the cause is a BBC led media conspiracy. In your never ending attempts to defend Johnson's Government, you are even contradicting yourself

News to me as i never once said the BBC article was to blame

The front page of the Sun the day after the BP statement and BBC article about a handful of forecourts temporarily closing was "we're running on empty" (fuel crisis mounts) completely twisting the original BP statement and helping to scare people into rushing out to top their cars to the brim (also plenty of social media stuff about lack of HGV drivers due to Brexit being to blame for their running out and this will lead to no fuel as other forecourts would run out too as there were simply no drivers anywhere to move it to petrol stations)

The HGV industry is a private enterprise, why would they (the Government, regardless of which political party it was that was in power at the time) interfere in the same way that you wouldn't expect them to interfere in say Homebase's business if they were short of paint

It would and should be down to the industry to address the problems within the industry, by doing more to attract workers into the industry including incentives, better wages, improved conditions, etc otherwise they would continue to fail to attract enough.

You say the issue has been rumbling on for 10 years, and how many of those years has there been a pandemic? why weren't the shortages of drivers addressed before it started and get new blood into the industry? They had 8 years after all

But the shortage of HGV drivers would affect deliveries to businesses, not to forecourts as they would be carried out by tanker drivers who have the qualifications needed for fuel deliveries and were coping (except for the dispute that BP had with Hoyer, who were contracted by BP to provide tanker drivers) so all the talk of HGV driver shortages is all smoke and mirrors to the tanker delivery situation

So, once again, IF people had just carried on buying fuel as normal, we wouldn't have this shortage, regardless of the lack of HGV drivers, regardless of Brexit, regardless of whether you felt the Government should have done more to increase the numbers of HGV drivers.

What caused the reaction we saw? with so many rushing to get fuel and meaning a weeks supply at a forecourt would run out in hours? if it wasn't the way it was all portrayed in the media or how those with an agenda (like Brexit) spun things to stoke up fears, then what was it ??

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

No
Yes there is fuel but the problem is delivering it! This is a result of the governments, policies and lack of planning

Very easy to blame the government. These are private companies, yes the authorities have certainly exasperated the situation, but why haven't the companies been making the job more attractive? They are to blame as well.

As I posted earlier from education to the government they have failed to encourage anyone for decades, to do anything other than pen push/keyboard strike.

They need to stop the pointless degrees and start proper job training. Start getting youngsters qualified in the skill sets this country needs. Good apprenticeships are a distant memory.

Wages are obviously a factor and have been kept low with the foreign workforce. Now they have gone, wages should rise. Next though everyone will complain at price rises and so it goes on. In truth though, for our society to exist we need those who are prepared to get their hands dirty, work hard and do things most scorn at. A few weeks ago with a mention of dustman(refuge collectors?) going on strike many were agog and even stated so much that the usual tip at Christmas was not happening. Yet these people work in all conditions collecting your shit week in week out while many sit in their spare room chatting away on a "Teams" meeting. At the end of day who has been the most productive? The person who has clicked a "Thumbs Up" to dance across the screen or the one who has slogged through the rain and wind to collect your Waitrose packaging and keep the streets from being overrun with crap.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Hang on, firstly you say the problem is getting those that wish to work in the industry trained and tested but that was hampered by the pandemic and then you it's because the industry isn't attractive to work in! If it's the latter then that would suggest there aren't many that want to get trained and tested!

Then you don't blame the Government but they are responsible for the testing element. The DVSA are a complete shower of shite and there have been massive problems at DVLA with issuing licences due to poor management. Both of those are government bodies.

Sorry if i didn't make it clear enough

There are a reported 100k HGV driver vacancies

Brexit (reportedly) led to around 20k HGV drivers leaving

There are (reportedly) around 40k who are looking to join the industry but haven't been able to yet due to covid (rapidly rising wages and incentives offered helping to attract those willing to join the industry)

The net result, if the pandemic hadn't stopped those waiting to join from being trained up and passing, would still have been that there would still be a shortage of around 80k HGV drivers

 

[beorhthelm]

It's been clear for a while now from the empty shelves in our supermarkets that something is seriously wrong and I reckon that has exacerbated the fuel crisis.

Ironic that people voting against Corbyn has brought Soviet scenes to our shops and streets.

are you seeing empty shelves though? shopping this morning and nothing short, execpt loose carrots, bagged only.

 

[cunning fergus]

[/U][/B]


I don't find this funny when Clarkson said it on top gear many years ago, in fact still don't. Then again being a HGV driver maybe I'm being to sensitive.

Fair enough, I understand the M.O. these days is to hold an entire profession responsible for the actions of some despicable individuals working within it…….even if they are really despicable.



Let’s say instead that there will be a surplus of Yorkies instead…….especially the biscuit and raisin. Yum.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

This is the problem, forecourt staff can't check every car and turn away vehicles with more than half a tank, and I would not expect them to, so maybe a minimum spend might stop this until this situation is over.

Just in practical terms, how might a minimum spend work? I appreciate it's a deterrent to ensure a driver doesn't cross the the threshold of the garage until running on fumes, but that risks loads of cars running out of fuel on the roads.
For example, if it were £30, imagine the mayhem on the forecourts if someone tops up with £20 worth and demands to only pay £20 at the pay desk while insisting he was sure he had room for more fuel and just misjudged it. Pity the poor cashier.
In real terms, it's difficult to know how much fuel capacity is left and a minimum spend of say £30 keeps out the driver who is content to buy less because he doesn't drive much and just needs half a tank. Plus not everyone can neccessarily afford £30 on fuel at certain times.
I see the intellectual argument but not sure how it could actually work.

 

[jessiejames]

Sorry if i didn't make it clear enough

There are a reported 100k HGV driver vacancies

Brexit (reportedly) led to around 20k HGV drivers leaving

There are (reportedly) around 40k who are looking to join the industry but haven't been able to yet due to covid (rapidly rising wages and incentives offered helping to attract those willing to join the industry)

The net result, if the pandemic hadn't stopped those waiting to join from being trained up and passing, would still have been that there would still be a shortage of around 80k HGV drivers

Agreed, but what are these incentives.

 

[pocketseagull]

are you seeing empty shelves though? shopping this morning and nothing short, execpt loose carrots, bagged only.

I shop mostly in Brighton Morrisons and Aldi and scarcity has been noticeable for a while now.

A small example being a week of not being able to buy spring onions, not really a major ingredient but for the first time in my life I'm going to the supermarket and feeling uncertain I'll be able to buy what I went for.

 

[jessiejames]

Fair enough, I understand the M.O. these days is to hold an entire profession responsible for the actions of some despicable individuals working within it…….even if they are really despicable.

View attachment 140982

Let’s say instead that there will be a surplus of Yorkies instead…….especially the biscuit and raisin. Yum.

Sorry mate wasn't being rude, I was also trying to make it into a joke with my response. Agree with the Yorkie bar, especially biscuit and raisin, however need to lose weight as sitting on my arse all day. Just need to top up left arm with fake tan now.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The problem is the Government knew back in 2009 that there would be a shortage of drivers, and as recently as 2017 it was estimated that by 2022, that shortfall could be as high as 100,000. Im not going to go on about the main reasons why again, but that would have been a good time to start offering incentives to get people into the industry, to get a HGV licence is going to cost between 4 & 5 thousand pounds, maybe offering grants to help pay for these licences.

No
Yes there is fuel but the problem is delivering it! This is a result of the governments, policies and lack of planning

And what part should the industry itself have played in providing any of that? surely they were far better placed to anticipate shortages and react to solve it, if the upcoming shortages were known for at least a decade, why didn't they act themselves to prevent it?

Surely a private industry should manage itself rather than have external organisations (like the Government) stepping in and micromanaging it whenever it feels like it needs to (whether it actually needed to or not)

If they run out of pies at half time at the Amex today, should the Government be blamed? and be expected to step in to prevent it reoccurring? That too is a private enterprise in the same way that fuel logistics and the HGV sector are, yet people aren't going to try to pin any issues faced at half time at the Amex on the Government, as there is little political gain to be had unlike with the fuel crisis

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Agreed, but what are these incentives.

Mainly higher wages from what i've read, but some companies have been offering bonuses for joining them (not sure if open to everyone or just experienced drivers as it wasn't made clear)

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Wait. You understand the importance of Just in Time logistics and still voted for Brexit?

Just in time logistics are in place all over the world so we have plenty of company in not being in the EU. Anyway I see you got plenty of likes from the glee club. I’m off to the match.

 

[um bongo molongo]

And what part should the industry itself have played in providing any of that? surely they were far better placed to anticipate shortages and react to solve it, if the upcoming shortages were known for at least a decade, why didn't they act themselves to prevent it?

Surely a private industry should manage itself rather than have external organisations (like the Government) stepping in and micromanaging it whenever it feels like it needs to (whether it actually needed to or not)

If they run out of pies at half time at the Amex today, should the Government be blamed? and be expected to step in to prevent it reoccurring? That too is a private enterprise in the same way that fuel logistics and the HGV sector are, yet people aren't going to try to pin any issues faced at half time at the Amex on the Government, as there is little political gain to be had unlike with the fuel crisis

I actually broadly agree with your point. However, the government enacted changes that reduced the available labour force from over 300 million to a little over 30 million, and didn’t clarify details until late last year (as with many details related to Brexit). Even if you assume companies can increase wages/improve conditions sufficiently, and Brits are therefore willing to do those jobs (possibly true for HGV driving, likely less true for fruit picking or work in meat production), it was never going to happen overnight and businesses couldn’t plan with the lack of clarity. So the Government should have had policies and a plan to aid the transition once details were known. As with much of Brexit though, it’s all about ideology, with little consideration of the real world consequences.