[Albion] The Wingers

[dejavuatbtn]

I don’t have a clue about what instructions CH gives them. They rarely get to the byline, and if they do there is only GM to aim for if he is on the pitch. They occasionally cut in and get lucky with a goal. If he plays them then give them more to aim for and someone to work off the target man. Else, change tactics and personnel. To be honest, we need better players.

 

[portlock seagull]

The age of the winger is over. The time for men has come.

 

[Bladders]

We don’t play with wingers , we play with extra full backs


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[colonies man]

Sadly I remember at the start of the season we had a real hope that between our group of wingers we would produce the goods.Ok Izzy out injured but the other 3 have sure not scared the opposition.Real disappointment’s

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Is it time to ditch wingers and play an interchangeable front 3 similar to Liverpool with Salah, Mane and Firmino ?

I'd been thinking this due to ineffective wing play. Like Robertson and Trent-Alexander need really good overlapping full backs. Bernardo fits the bill and need a younger version of the marauding Bruno (not Montoya).

 

[colonies man]

Montoya is a strange one.I had high hopes for him but he actually appears to be going backwards.His positional play and tackling are very poor.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Is it time to ditch wingers and play an interchangeable front 3 similar to Liverpool with Salah, Mane and Firmino ?

On our budget they'd be slow-motion versions of the above.

 

[blue-shifted]

Our wingers haven't delivered enough ... and I'm not sure it's entirely their fault

The first problem is that there only ever one to aim for, either Murray, (who stands there waiting outjump the centre back, not a criticism, that's his game) or Andone, who does have decent movement but isn't going to win a floated ball. What is needed is someone breaking their neck to get in there from midfield or the other wing to make it harder for the defence. We've badly missed Gross in this respect as he allows us to play 4-4-1-1

The second problem is the continued cutting back inside. When was the last time we scored a goal like, the Gabriel Jesus goal against us at Wembley? First time ball in, a run in the space between defence and striker. We don't do it. The winger takes 3 or 4 touches, or plays a pass backwards and the space has been closed.

What gets me is we've got the players to attack much faster. Knocky and Solly, easily have the quality to play a first time cross. Andone, has the movement to get in behind, Bissouma, Kayal, and Gross have the ability to break into the box for a cut back, and Propper and Stephens have the game to sit and protect, whilst our attacking midfielder bomb on. A subtle change of system, either back to 4-4-1-1 or to 4-2-3-1 with wingers told to play a first time ball and strikers, told to get in behind and one CM told he doesn't have defensive responsibilities when we're on the counter, would make us much more a threat. We'd concede more, but we haven't scored or looked like scoring for weeks, and this can't go on

 

[tigertim68]

It would help if our wingers were playing on the right side of the pitch , Izzy is right footed play him on the right not the left , March and Knocky are left footed so play them on the left , then we might see some decent crosses

 

[Diablo]

Is it time to ditch wingers and play an interchangeable front 3 similar to Liverpool with Salah, Mane and Firmino ?

Perhaps Messi, Iniesta,Pogba and Hazard in behind them.

 

[A1X]

Injuries have played their part, for most of the season we've not had either Izzy or AJ, which is why we've had to play Locadia as a winget and go 4-3-3 so often IMHO.

 

[Blue3]

Statistically at least Knockaert and March have been consistent. They both create 1.2 chances per game which is generally very high; Gross creates over two per game which is the 6th highest in the league.

The issue isn’t the wingers or their output, it’s how they’re used and also how few players get into the box for them to hit. This point also doesn’t take into account just how deep they’re asked to play compared to other sides’ wingers and how much defensive work they’re asked to do every game.

This is true the interchange between wing backs and wingers at this level keeps our wingers far to deep, understandably as our budget can only stretch so far, CH is well aware of this and his game plan is to keep games tight using his wingers to support the wing backs hence we have purchased a number of wingers in the last couple of years March has been the most consistent of all the wingers this season Izzy has been injured for most of it and AK in and out of form, AJ looks the part but has failed to deliver as has Locardia although to be fair he's not a natural winger this with Gross our only real playmaker having been injured means the service to the front man or goals from wingers or midfield have been severely limited

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

For me the biggest problem with all of our wingers is that not one of them seems to know how to cross the ball. We get into good positions but then never seem to aim a cross into Murray/Andone for them to attack, instead just cutting back on themselves and giving the ball away or making a backwards pass so the attack dies.

The biggest issue is this desire to cross the ball by floating passes in. As we saw with Bournemouth this weekend, a lot of top flight goals are scored by playing the ball across the box on the floor. We never do this and our players never seem intent on picking a pass in these positions. Part of that must be tactical, and part of it must be the lack of players getting in the box, but there are definite issues there and there seems no intent from the management team in terms of changing this approach.

 

[RandyWanger]

Why no one took on Ake when he was booked in the first 20 mins was baffling. Surely we should have targeted that side.

 

[A1X]

The biggest issue is this desire to cross the ball by floating passes in. As we saw with Bournemouth this weekend, a lot of top flight goals are scored by playing the ball across the box on the floor. We never do this and our players never seem intent on picking a pass in these positions. Part of that must be tactical, and part of it must be the lack of players getting in the box, but there are definite issues there and there seems no intent from the management team in terms of changing this approach.

We're easily the most predictable team in the league TBH. All our crosses are flighted. All our kick-offs are lumped out to our left as a long ball. All Ryan's goal kicks go down the flanks (and normally out of play). All our corners go to the back post. Our midfield will always pass sideways and back, only our wingers go forward with the ball.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

We're easily the most predictable team in the league TBH. All our crosses are flighted. All our kick-offs are lumped out to our left as a long ball. All Ryan's goal kicks go down the flanks (and normally out of play). All our corners go to the back post. Our midfield will always pass sideways and back, only our wingers go forward with the ball.

Too right. That's a lot of pressure to heap on two players to get you 50 yards up the pitch every time. Although I would add Bissouma to that, in terms of the ability to get the ball forward whilst carrying it.

 

[rippleman]

Why no one took on Ake when he was booked in the first 20 mins was baffling. Surely we should have targeted that side.

Baffled me too. Was so obvious that we had to keep giving the ball to Knocky and Biss and keep running at Ake. He wouldn't have been able to cope with it and would soon have been taking an early bath.

But the wingers in general seem incapable of going outside a fullback and putting in a cross. They all want to cut inside. Even if they do go outside and put in a cross, who is in the box? Murray (if he's playing) with two or three defenders marking him. How often have Propper (who is an attacking midfielder for the Dutch) and Stephens made those runs into the box to support the striker? Kayal does it but he is clearly not Hughton's cup of tea; he is just too attacking and adventurous for the way Hughton wants to play.

 

[clockend1983]

Our wingers always seem to be on their 'wrong' wing so have to cut back in order to cross, rather than getting around the back. They are also so inconsistent. Somebody like March or Knocky will come on and save a game then get a starting role & be hopeless.

A few of us on here having been making
that point for a while Fred and the fact the inverted wingers,as I’ve been told
the term is,is completely ineffective for us.
I have been told by a lot on here that wingers getting to the by line
around the full back is a thing of the past and to get used to it
What I know for sure is
A) If we continue to play wingers as we are we will
get very little in the way of goal scoring opportunities
B)If we give the more trad wing play a go by playing them on the
strongest foot at the by line it can’t be any worse than it’s been
I know many of you disagree with this but look at the evidence
from this season it’s been hopeless really
Be honest with yourselves and stop the kings new clothes type situation
Up the Albion

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

A few of us on here having been making
that point for a while Fred and the fact the inverted wingers,as I’ve been told
the term is,is completely ineffective for us.
I have been told by a lot on here that wingers getting to the by line
around the full back is a thing of the past and to get used to it
What I know for sure is
A) If we continue to play wingers as we are we will
get very little in the way of goal scoring opportunities
B)If we give the more trad wing play a go by playing them on the
strongest foot at the by line it can’t be any worse than it’s been
I know many of you disagree with this but look at the evidence
from this season it’s been hopeless really
Be honest with yourselves and stop the kings new clothes type situation
Up the Albion

It absolutely can be worse. The issue isn't the inverted wingers, it's how they're used. They're essentially defensive players first, rather than wingers. If your winger has to start 15 yards inside his own half before trying to carry the ball forward, then his footedness makes no difference offensively (albeit it does in theory narrow the pitch defensively making us harder to play through).

Solly is actually a prime example. On the left hand side he's incredibly ineffective (and he's been used there countless times over the last two years). He's ineffective because he's too predictable - it's obvious that every time he gets the ball he wants to go outside, yet he's not actually quick enough to play that role of attacking the byline. Furthermore, we have an obsession with lobbing high balls into the box - this tactic would become even more prevalent with wingers on their correct foot probably yet who would they have to try and cross the ball to? In all likelihood, all we'd see is even more turnovers whereby the opposition would have the chance to break on us. The other issue is that it cuts down a lot of the space for attacking full backs. If you have a left footed winger in front of Bernardo, for example, where's his space to run into?

Essentially, there's nothing wrong with inverted wingers. The issue is how we used them and the fact that we treat them like defensive wingers who have to do so much defensive work and ball carrying before they even get into areas that may cause some damage. These issues would still happen if we had them on their correct foots, but you'd be neutralising your own full backs and leaving yourself more open defensively.

 

[clockend1983]

It absolutely can be worse. The issue isn't the inverted wingers, it's how they're used. They're essentially defensive players first, rather than wingers. If your winger has to start 15 yards inside his own half before trying to carry the ball forward, then his footedness makes no difference offensively (albeit it does in theory narrow the pitch defensively making us harder to play through).

Solly is actually a prime example. On the left hand side he's incredibly ineffective (and he's been used there countless times over the last two years). He's ineffective because he's too predictable - it's obvious that every time he gets the ball he wants to go outside, yet he's not actually quick enough to play that role of attacking the byline. Furthermore, we have an obsession with lobbing high balls into the box - this tactic would become even more prevalent with wingers on their correct foot probably yet who would they have to try and cross the ball to? In all likelihood, all we'd see is even more turnovers whereby the opposition would have the chance to break on us. The other issue is that it cuts down a lot of the space for attacking full backs. If you have a left footed winger in front of Bernardo, for example, where's his space to run into?

Essentially, there's nothing wrong with inverted wingers. The issue is how we used them and the fact that we treat them like defensive wingers who have to do so much defensive work and ball carrying before they even get into areas that may cause some damage. These issues would still happen if we had them on their correct foots, but you'd be neutralising your own full backs and leaving yourself more open defensively.

You must be watching a different team to me
Good luck