The Wealden Line.

[Brovion]

what i don't understand is why he should be opposed to BML2, doesn't the Lewes-Uckfield line form part of that plan?

Not all of it, it bypasses Lewes as it leaves the Lewes line east of Falmer. (Although it's no surprise to learn that Baker is basically lying again by saying it will need a huge amount of tunneling under the town).

 

[8ace]

what i don't understand is why he should be opposed to BML2, doesn't the Lewes-Uckfield line form part of that plan?

Yes

 

[Lord Bracknell]

what i don't understand is why he should be opposed to BML2, doesn't the Lewes-Uckfield line form part of that plan?

No. BML2 omits Lewes. The spur to Lewes, shown on the map above, merely confirms that the BML2 plan requires retention of the old Lewes-Uckfield scheme (but in a slightly different form). If Lewes-Uckfield is unaffordable, Lewes-Uckfield PLUS BML2 is all the more unaffordable. And BML2 aims to get its passengers to Stratford, not anywhere near central London!

 

[rippleman]

Last year had a job interview in Uckfield. Great job, great firm...would have loved it but, being a non driver, I had to turn it down.

The journey from Worthing to Uckfield via East Croydon was a nightmare. The Uckfield train was painfully slow and had three times as many carriages than were needed. Coming back was worse, standing from East Croydon to Lancing! (As bad as Southern's matchday service for lack of capacity).

Would have added between 4.5 to 5 hours to my working day! Not at my time of life thank you.

Totally illogical not to run a service from Lewes to Uckfield. Another shambles brought to you by Network Rail and the train companies. Should we be surprised............?!!

 

[Gwylan]

Totally illogical not to run a service from Lewes to Uckfield. Another shambles brought to you by Network Rail and the train companies. Should we be surprised............?!!

I'm always happy to slag off rail companies but in this case they and Network Rail are innocent. They can't run trains where there's no track - we're not talking the Titfield Thunderbolt here

 

[yxee]

In terms of benefiting the maximum people with taxpayers' money, surely it is better spent on the London-Brighton route than connecting Uckfield?

 

[Diego Napier]

No. BML2 omits Lewes. The spur to Lewes, shown on the map above, merely confirms that the BML2 plan requires retention of the old Lewes-Uckfield scheme (but in a slightly different form). If Lewes-Uckfield is unaffordable, Lewes-Uckfield PLUS BML2 is all the more unaffordable. And BML2 aims to get its passengers to Stratford, not anywhere near central London!

The BML2 map doesn't omit Lewes, there is a link from there to Uckfield, it is only omitted if travelling from Brighton. What would be the benefit of running the line through Lewes?

I appreciate that many people terminate their journeys at Victoria or London Bridge but many of them then make onward journeys. Presumably passenger surveys show that sufficient people terminate their journey at East Croydon, Canary Wharf, Stratford and Stansted to warrant the chosen route? Given that there will never be a totally satisfactory solution, if the proposed route helps relieve passenger stress and avoids further congesting central London isn't that a benefit?

 

[beorhthelm]

No. BML2 omits Lewes. The spur to Lewes, shown on the map above, merely confirms that the BML2 plan requires retention of the old Lewes-Uckfield scheme (but in a slightly different form). If Lewes-Uckfield is unaffordable, Lewes-Uckfield PLUS BML2 is all the more unaffordable. And BML2 aims to get its passengers to Stratford, not anywhere near central London!

i see, it doesn't make provision for the spur into Lewes, but that's easily fixed. it seems daft for him to oppose it, after all what would be sensible is to promote BML2 and ensure the spur is included, argue to have the line reinstated as phase one with the tunnels and everything to follow in phase n. tunneling under the downs seems a ridiculous objection.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I appreciate that many people terminate their journeys at Victoria or London Bridge but many of them then make onward journeys. Presumably passenger surveys show that sufficient people terminate their journey at East Croydon, Canary Wharf, Stratford and Stansted to warrant the chosen route? Given that there will never be a totally satisfactory solution, if the proposed route helps relieve passenger stress and avoids further congesting central London isn't that a benefit?

Passenger surveys? Do you imagine that the advocates of BML2 have done passenger surveys? They haven't.

When I was in the business of commissioning feasibility studies into various aspects of the plans to develop the Uckfield line, one of the hardest things to get across to Brian Hart and his fellow campaigners was the FACT that, just before the Lewes-Uckfield line closed in 1969, the overwhelming number of public transport users travelling along that corridor chose to use buses rather than trains. The reasons were twofold - the bus service was more frequent than the train service, and buses picked people up closer to home and dropped them closer to their intended destination (without the need to change).

As for getting to Canary Wharf, Stratford and Stansted more conveniently ... the billions that are already being poured into the Thameslink and Crossrail projects will deliver those benefits much earlier than anything that might possibly get spent on BML2.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

i see, it doesn't make provision for the spur into Lewes, but that's easily fixed.

If it was "easily fixed", why do you think that the conclusion of every study that has been undertaken in the last 25 years has been that there isn't a business case to justify the capital expenditure necessary to re-establish train services between Lewes and Uckfield?

And if you are looking for a case for spending public money on the project (for example, to relieve road congestion), the traffic queues simply aren't long enough. If public money is going to be put into rail investment, there are dozens of projects that would deliver greater benefits than this one.

 

[Diego Napier]

Passenger surveys? Do you imagine that the advocates of BML2 have done passenger surveys? They haven't.

When I was in the business of commissioning feasibility studies into various aspects of the plans to develop the Uckfield line, one of the hardest things to get across to Brian Hart and his fellow campaigners was the FACT that, just before the Lewes-Uckfield line closed in 1969, the overwhelming number of public transport users travelling along that corridor chose to use buses rather than trains. The reasons were twofold - the bus service was more frequent than the train service, and buses picked people up closer to home and dropped them closer to their intended destination (without the need to change).

As for getting to Canary Wharf, Stratford and Stansted more conveniently ... the billions that are already being poured into the Thameslink and Crossrail projects will deliver those benefits much earlier than anything that might possibly get spent on BML2.

You're obviously far closer to the problem than me; what do you think would be the best way to solve it?

 

[Tubby Mondays]

Passenger surveys? Do you imagine that the advocates of BML2 have done passenger surveys? They haven't.

When I was in the business of commissioning feasibility studies into various aspects of the plans to develop the Uckfield line, one of the hardest things to get across to Brian Hart and his fellow campaigners was the FACT that, just before the Lewes-Uckfield line closed in 1969, the overwhelming number of public transport users travelling along that corridor chose to use buses rather than trains. The reasons were twofold - the bus service was more frequent than the train service, and buses picked people up closer to home and dropped them closer to their intended destination (without the need to change).

As for getting to Canary Wharf, Stratford and Stansted more conveniently ... the billions that are already being poured into the Thameslink and Crossrail projects will deliver those benefits much earlier than anything that might possibly get spent on BML2.

Are the Towns and the people that live in them in 2015 the same as they were in 1969?
Given that the area is mostly rural, would the types of jobs that the people living in those towns do now, be the same as those that the people living there in 1969 did?

 

[The Oldman]

Just listened to Mr Baker on BBC SX. He "is determined to get the Uckfield to Lewes link reopened".
In talks with the Transport Minister.

 

[Motogull]

As someone very familiar with T Wells, it amazes me how poorly connected it is. A rail link to Brighton would be awesome, but ain't gonna happen. Such a shame.

 

[Gwylan]

When I was in the business of commissioning feasibility studies into various aspects of the plans to develop the Uckfield line, one of the hardest things to get across to Brian Hart and his fellow campaigners was the FACT that, just before the Lewes-Uckfield line closed in 1969, the overwhelming number of public transport users travelling along that corridor chose to use buses rather than trains. The reasons were twofold - the bus service was more frequent than the train service, and buses picked people up closer to home and dropped them closer to their intended destination (without the need to change).

As for getting to Canary Wharf, Stratford and Stansted more conveniently ... the billions that are already being poured into the Thameslink and Crossrail projects will deliver those benefits much earlier than anything that might possibly get spent on BML2.

Do these studies take into account people like Rippleman, who turned down a job because it wasn't feasible? Or my daughter who will have to give up playing rugby at Lewes next season and is pondering whether it's possible to get to Uckfield, the only club available in the area. Our decision will probably be that it's not feasible but that's something that wouldn't show up in any survey or feasibility study. Or the possibility of a day trip to Hever Castle from Brighton? Or any number of reasons why someone may want to travel on that line

 

[ken tiler]

Passenger surveys? Do you imagine that the advocates of BML2 have done passenger surveys? They haven't.

When I was in the business of commissioning feasibility studies into various aspects of the plans to develop the Uckfield line, one of the hardest things to get across to Brian Hart and his fellow campaigners was the FACT that, just before the Lewes-Uckfield line closed in 1969, the overwhelming number of public transport users travelling along that corridor chose to use buses rather than trains. The reasons were twofold - the bus service was more frequent than the train service, and buses picked people up closer to home and dropped them closer to their intended destination (without the need to change).

As for getting to Canary Wharf, Stratford and Stansted more conveniently ... the billions that are already being poured into the Thameslink and Crossrail projects will deliver those benefits much earlier than anything that might possibly get spent on BML2.

Where else did these passengers want to go apart from the main towns which the rail route served?

My informal passenger survey, gleaned from my many, soemtimes very packed, journeys on this route from Brighton to Tunbridge Wells on the 28/29 bus incdicate that most people wnat to travel to or from Brighton, Lewes, Uckfiled, Crowborough and Tunbridge Wells.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

You're obviously far closer to the problem than me; what do you think would be the best way to solve it?

This may seem a crass question, but it is a genuine one ...

What is the problem that needs solving?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Where else did these passengers want to go apart from the main towns which the rail route served?

My informal passenger survey, gleaned from my many, soemtimes very packed, journeys on this route from Brighton to Tunbridge Wells on the 28/29 bus incdicate that most people wnat to travel to or from Brighton, Lewes, Uckfiled, Crowborough and Tunbridge Wells.

I would agree. But even if the Lewes-Uckfield line re-opened, there wouldn't be direct trains to or from Tunbridge Wells.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Are the Towns and the people that live in them in 2015 the same as they were in 1969?
Given that the area is mostly rural, would the types of jobs that the people living in those towns do now, be the same as those that the people living there in 1969 did?

No, they wouldn't. There is a lot more commuting to London these days. And a lot more of that commuting involves driving a car to a major railway station that can offer a higher frequency train service than is available on the Uckfield line - places like Haywards Heath, East Grinstead and Wadhurst or Tunbridge Wells, for example.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

No, they wouldn't. There is a lot more commuting to London these days. And a lot more of that commuting involves driving a car to a major railway station that can offer a higher frequency train service than is available on the Uckfield line - places like Haywards Heath, East Grinstead and Wadhurst or Tunbridge Wells, for example.

A higher frequency train service than is available now?