The Wealden Line.

[beorhthelm]

whats needed for Sussex, and Surrey and South London is a coorindated transport overhaul. Extend Gatwick to two run ways (theres virtually no one under the fligth path and plenty of space, unlike Heathrow) then increase the rail capacity through East Croydon by adding lines and improving the signalling to allow more trains. most the line up there boarders shitholes who'd be pleased to be compulsoray purchased. add in a shuttle service to Heathrow largly underground as has been suggested. sure there will be lots of crying, there always is.

 

[Mutts Nuts]

You'd hope so.

Unfortunately I think their priorities may lie with spending many billions on "prestige" projects like the high-speed London to Birmingham rail link to shave half hour off the journey on an already efficient route rather than 100 million on providing a means of relieving the overcrowding nightmare on the Brighton/Eastbourne/Hasting/South coast to London route.

And something like 17 billion on crossrail

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

Don't blame Beeching for the loss of the Lewes - Uckfield line. It survived his axe. It closed in 1969, when East Sussex County Council built the Phoenix Causeway bridge in Lewes.

Originally the line was to have closed south of Crowborough, but was then kept open to Uckfield. Stupid closure though, and one reason it will probably never be reopened is that East Sussex County Council want to build a town centre relief road in Uckfield, which will make reopening impossible. The council also didn't help with the bypass, which again severed the trackbed. A new bridge would be required across the A22. Bus advocates will not like this, but it is nearly always easier to get drivers out of their cars onto trains than buses. I use the 28/29 sometimes to get to Falmer from Lewes, but I wouldn't fancy using it for longer distances on a regular basis. If I was going to Brighton, my preferred option would always be to drive at least to Lewes before getting the bus, whereas I would be quite happy to travel from Brighton to Uckfield or Crowborough by train. Another annoying closure from my point of view was East Grinstead to Horsted Keynes and then on to Haywards Heath. I would be able to do most of the journey to Falmer by train if that was still open. You can't blame Beeching for that either, at least not East Grinstead to Horsted Keynes, as that was closed before the Bluebell Railway was opened. Horsted Keynes to Haywards Heath was electrified, but was still closed.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Originally the line was to have closed south of Crowborough, but was then kept open to Uckfield. Stupid closure though, and one reason it will probably never be reopened is that East Sussex County Council want to build a town centre relief road in Uckfield, which will make reopening impossible. The council also didn't help with the bypass, which again severed the trackbed. A new bridge would be required across the A22. Bus advocates will not like this, but it is nearly always easier to get drivers out of their cars onto trains than buses. I use the 28/29 sometimes to get to Falmer from Lewes, but I wouldn't fancy using it for longer distances on a regular basis. If I was going to Brighton, my preferred option would always be to drive at least to Lewes before getting the bus, whereas I would be quite happy to travel from Brighton to Uckfield or Crowborough by train. Another annoying closure from my point of view was East Grinstead to Horsted Keynes and then on to Haywards Heath. I would be able to do most of the journey to Falmer by train if that was still open. You can't blame Beeching for that either, at least not East Grinstead to Horsted Keynes, as that was closed before the Bluebell Railway was opened. Horsted Keynes to Haywards Heath was electrified, but was still closed.

The letter from the Department for Transport that I quoted earlier claims that the ESCC road scheme in Uckfield doesn't compromise the possibility of restoring the rail link. In fact, it "makes re-opening of the railway easier, not more difficult". The construction of the Uckfield by-pass isn't an insuperable obstacle either. Years ago, when I was working for ESCC, I commissioned a feasibility study for a railway bridge over the bypass and it proved to be possible and affordable.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

Originally the line was to have closed south of Crowborough, but was then kept open to Uckfield. Stupid closure though, and one reason it will probably never be reopened is that East Sussex County Council want to build a town centre relief road in Uckfield, which will make reopening impossible. The council also didn't help with the bypass, which again severed the trackbed. A new bridge would be required across the A22. Bus advocates will not like this, but it is nearly always easier to get drivers out of their cars onto trains than buses. I use the 28/29 sometimes to get to Falmer from Lewes, but I wouldn't fancy using it for longer distances on a regular basis. If I was going to Brighton, my preferred option would always be to drive at least to Lewes before getting the bus, whereas I would be quite happy to travel from Brighton to Uckfield or Crowborough by train. Another annoying closure from my point of view was East Grinstead to Horsted Keynes and then on to Haywards Heath. I would be able to do most of the journey to Falmer by train if that was still open. You can't blame Beeching for that either, at least not East Grinstead to Horsted Keynes, as that was closed before the Bluebell Railway was opened. Horsted Keynes to Haywards Heath was electrified, but was still closed.

I once read a fantastic story about The original closure of The Bluebell Line in 1950 whenever:

Apparently some elderly lady who lived locally, trawled through the paperwork & discovered British Rail hadn't followed the correct procedure when closing the line. She went all the way to the High Court who ruled in her favour & British Rail were forced to re-open the line until the legal loophole was closed.

A classic David & Goliath tale. The might of British Rail & Ministry of Transport being owned by an old lady!

 

[perseus]

Titfield Thunderbolt

 

[Leekbrookgull]

I once read a fantastic story about The original closure of The Bluebell Line in 1950 whenever:

Apparently some elderly lady who lived locally, trawled through the paperwork & discovered British Rail hadn't followed the correct procedure when closing the line. She went all the way to the High Court who ruled in her favour & British Rail were forced to re-open the line until the legal loophole was closed.

A classic David & Goliath tale. The might of British Rail & Ministry of Transport being owned by an old lady!

Sounds like her.http://www.buckinghamcovers.com/shop/productdisplay.php?productCode=R69

 

[8ace]

There is a mention in the budget red book about the government providing £100,000 for a further study into reopening the Lewes-Uckfield railway line.

The Liberal Democrat MP for Lewes, Norman Baker, welcomed the announcement, saying: "It has become clearer than ever in recent weeks that there is a need for an alternative line from the Sussex Coast to London.

"A reopened Lewes-Uckfield line would provide exactly that, enabling through trains to run from Seaford and Newhaven via Uckfield, and also freeing up space on the Brighton main line for more Brighton trains."

Welcome news for Lewes, but in the scheme of the whole Budget £100,000 is a drop in the ocean.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31952287

 

[beorhthelm]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31952287

and whats happened on the BML in recent weeks? dont think ive been delayed, maybe the odd couple of minutes (normal). unless he's refering to London Bridge issues which have sweet fa to do with this. so they'll waste 100k on a dead end pipe dream.

 

[8ace]

Bit more about it in the Argus today:

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1186...s_hope_of_new_railway_line_for_Sussex/?ref=mr

HOPES for a new train line in Sussex have been revived following the announcement of a new government study.

The Lewes-Uckfield railway link, which closed in 1960, will be the subject of a £100,000 study into its reopening.

It is hoped the move could ease pressure on the Brighton Main Line, which has been plagued by overcrowding and delays.

The news was revealed in Treasury papers yesterday as Chancellor George Osborne made his annual Budget speech to the Commons.

Slaphead Lewis MP Norman Baker, who has been campaigning for the line to be reopened for 25 years, said: “The Treasury is not in the habit of throwing away money so there’s a good case which we’re going to take forward.

“Everyone recognises the Brighton Main Line is under severe pressure. As soon as one train goes wrong there’s a big backlog, it’s very vulnerable.

“We need something more resilient and an obvious thing would be to reinstate the Lewes-Uckfield line.”

Previous reports into reopening the line have estimated the cost at around £130 million, Mr Baker said.

Uckfield was left at the end of the line and bottom of the pecking order for investment after the line’s closure in 1960 despite protests.

The slimey c*ntface added: “I have been lobbying for the reopening of this line for more than 25 years, apart from when I was trying to kill off the Albion, and the case gets stronger with every passing year. The coalition government, thanks to the Lib Dems, has a good record on rail expansion. Taking Lewes-Uckfield forward would be the icing on the cake.

“Now it is time for everyone, including those who have advocated BML2, to get behind this study and start pulling in the same direction. We have a real chance to get this line re-opened and we need to grasp it with both hands.

“I will be discussing the terms of reference of the study with the transport secretary shortly.”

But Brian Hart, project manager of rival scheme BML2, which would link Brighton, Lewes, Uckfield and Canary Warf, said Mr Baker’s scheme was a “poor alternative”.

He said: “They did a study in 2008 into the Lewes to Uckfield line and I think this one will come to the same conclusions and identify the same problems.

“A new line has to go through Brighton as BML2 proposes, everybody would have to get off at Lewes and get on another train and I think Lewes will be overwhelmed.”

 

[Norman Potting]

I think the 2008 study was in to the technical feasibility of reopening the route, I believe I have a link to it somewhere which I will post for all us anoraks who frequent the board. Not surprisingly it concluded that there were no major technical isssues and it could be done at a price, whether it is deemed that the price is worth paying is presumably what this latest study will try and establish.

Problem with the scheme is that it doesn't do anything to ease congesting on the lines out of London and trains would enter Lewes heading in the Eastbourne direction unless much of the new builds in the centre of Lewes were demolished to accomodate a rebuild of the old route. One alternative (no, not BML or the funny loop thingy round Lewes that was suggested) was to divert after Isfield via Ringmer and connect with the East Coastway in the vicinity of Glynde with a triangle junction to allow trains to run either to Eastbourne or Brighton - not sure how the Green lobby would view this.

Would love to see it happen so I could train from Crowborough to Falmer, but won't hold my breath about anything materialising.

 

[Norman Potting]

View attachment lewes_uckfield_network_rail_final_report.pdf

2008 Survey may be viewed via above link if you are interested - 98 pages. If you want to "cut to the chase" so to speak page 84 on is best.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I think the 2008 study was in to the technical feasibility of reopening the route, I believe I have a link to it somewhere which I will post for all us anoraks who frequent the board. Not surprisingly it concluded that there were no major technical isssues and it could be done at a price, whether it is deemed that the price is worth paying is presumably what this latest study will try and establish.

Problem with the scheme is that it doesn't do anything to ease congesting on the lines out of London and trains would enter Lewes heading in the Eastbourne direction unless much of the new builds in the centre of Lewes were demolished to accomodate a rebuild of the old route. One alternative (no, not BML or the funny loop thingy round Lewes that was suggested) was to divert after Isfield via Ringmer and connect with the East Coastway in the vicinity of Glynde with a triangle junction to allow trains to run either to Eastbourne or Brighton - not sure how the Green lobby would view this.z
Would love to see it happen so I could train from Crowborough to Falmer, but won't hold my breath about anything materialising.

The Ringmer route, eh? Back in the nineteenth century, that nearly happened. They even built The Railway Hotel on Laughton Road (later renamed the Hare and Hounds, now Heron House).

 

[Lord Bracknell]

My recollection of the Consultants' report that originally suggested a route via Ringmer as an option was that it didn't propose a diversion south of Isfield, but envisaged a reversing manoeuvre at Uckfield station and avoiding the western end of Uckfield, the Uckfield bypass, Isfield, Barcombe Mills, the Hamsey loop, etc altogether.

A neat solution to a lot of problems, but a bit on the "blue sky thinking" edge of the spectrum. However ... probably a damn sight cheaper than the BML2 proposal with its tunnel east of Falmer and its complete failure to include Lewes on the route.

 

[Gwylan]

However ... probably a damn sight cheaper than the BML2 proposal with its tunnel east of Falmer and its complete failure to include Lewes on the route.

I'd seen BML2 mentioned before and I thought it was talking about opening Lewes to Uckfield, I hadn't realised it was a separate proposal: what the hell is that about? Surely, if we want there to be local pressure to open Uckfield to the south again, it's better to have one proposal on the table not two

 

[beorhthelm]

coming back to this, if im understanding correctly, BML2 isnt at all the same as the Wealden line, which only calls for the reopening of Lewes-Uckfield line. theres been pretty much no development over the line so apart from failing to address south London/Croydon congestion, is this actually a half sensible proposal as a way to increase East Coast and Lewes-London services, and provide a relief route from BML when three bridges/gatwick/HH get fubar'd? with some cunning use of a siding at Lewes to reverse trains (use massive pit to the south east) you could even send trains to Brighton without changing.

 

[Brovion]

I think the 2008 study was in to the technical feasibility of reopening the route, I believe I have a link to it somewhere which I will post for all us anoraks who frequent the board. Not surprisingly it concluded that there were no major technical isssues and it could be done at a price, whether it is deemed that the price is worth paying is presumably what this latest study will try and establish.

Problem with the scheme is that it doesn't do anything to ease congesting on the lines out of London and trains would enter Lewes heading in the Eastbourne direction unless much of the new builds in the centre of Lewes were demolished to accomodate a rebuild of the old route. One alternative (no, not BML or the funny loop thingy round Lewes that was suggested) was to divert after Isfield via Ringmer and connect with the East Coastway in the vicinity of Glynde with a triangle junction to allow trains to run either to Eastbourne or Brighton - not sure how the Green lobby would view this.

Would love to see it happen so I could train from Crowborough to Falmer, but won't hold my breath about anything materialising.

Surely they'll be all in favour? It'll be the people who are usually their ideological compatriots, the country Tories, who'll object.

And won't the single-track tunnels mean that this will never be a replacment for the BML2 scheme?

 

[8ace]

Norman Baker's been lying again according to this:

http://www.bml2.co.uk/the-news/186-...riefed-on-thameslink-2-at-house-of-lords.html

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The spat between the advocates of BML2 and the supporters of re-opening the Lewes-Uckfield line is now getting very political, in the run-up to the General Election. Yesterday's announcement by George Osborne was undoubtedly designed to encourage Maria Caulfield, Tory candidate for Lewes and advocate of BML2. As the BML2 website makes clear, Norman Baker and the Lib Dems are lining up as opponents of BML2 and supporters of re-opening Lewes-Uckfield.

Neither will happen, but - in this particular spat - I'm backing Baker.

http://www.bml2.co.uk/

Chancellor George Osborne recently said Government needs “to look at the bold ideas you have for connectivity in London – the prospective Conservative MP in Lewes, Maria Caulfield, is a strong advocate for a new BML2 line into London.”

Countering this, Lewes Lib Dem MP Norman Baker, has intensified his campaign against BML2 by attacking his Conservative opponent. “Lewes–Uckfield reinstatement is, it is important to note, different from the so-called BML2 scheme, supported by the Tory parliamentary candidate. Apart from being hugely expensive, this would run direct from Uckfield to Brighton, so bypassing Lewes. It would need a huge amount of tunnelling under the town, with all the disruption that would cause.”

 

[beorhthelm]

Neither will happen, but - in this particular spat - I'm backing Baker.

what i don't understand is why he should be opposed to BML2, doesn't the Lewes-Uckfield line form part of that plan?