[Football] The VAR goes MAD at Mainz

[Simster]

If you don't think VAR is going to eradicate referee mistakes, I'm not sure what you mean by implementing it so that it is effective.

I'd address one or two aspects of the game first, before applying it unconditionally.

Firstly, offside decisions: instruct all linesmen to let marginal calls proceed and they have the ability to ask for a review when play next breaks. I would let all marginal goals stand unless a player is clearly offside on VAR.
Secondly, sending off offences. Referee makes a decision one way or the other, and has the ability to ask the VAR official if they can see any obvious reason why the on field decision should be overturned.

These two aspects alone with throw up confusion. People will ask what offside is - is it determined by feet position? Who is deemed interfering with play? That sort of thing. Let's iron out those wrinkles before trying to fix the whole sport with television. Apart from anything else, people might actually bother to learn the rules because you do hear a lot of crap surrounding contentious decisions at the moment - even from pundits who have played the game for 20 years and should know better.

 

[BensGrandad]

Please add a shedload more.

The difference being that you and many others do not go out of their way to be abusive and then think wrongly that they are clever for doing so.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I am really quite saddened with regard to VAR. the way it has been implemented and the way the debate has continued. To be clear, I was all for it when it was introduced and I still think it has a place in modern football.

I don't watch football because I like controversy, I watch it because I enjoy playing the game, following my team, and appreciating the levels of skill that the game allows the best players to demonstrate in a way that so few other sports do. With that in mind, the concept of VAR in my view should always have been to eliminate terrible decisions and attempt to stamp out gamesmanship and poor conduct. However, the way this has been implemented has been a total shambles and we are now in danger of the debate moving in a direction that I don't think is helpful - one which says "VAR is rubbish, get rid of it" rather than "VAR implementation is a mess, let's address how we can use it properly". Someone on here suggested VAR should only be trialled to handle one or two aspects of the game at a time in order to iron out wrinkles and I think that's what I want to see. I worry that the inevitable VAR shambles at the world cup will be the death knell of the whole thing, and we'll be back to seeing games decided 1-0 by a goal four yards offside while a blatant penalty was missed at the other end. Brilliant.

Agree with all of this. The way VAR has been implemented is a dogs breakfast. There is little to no consistency how it is applied as the 'Clear and obvious error' seems to have been interpreted as 'Use it whenever you feel like it' meaning the debate is, as you say, 'VAR is rubbish. I appreciate that goal line technology is clear cut but it proves technology can help the game. VAR could have been introduced for Diving, Red Cards, Penalties or Offsides - Anything but the current catch all which tries to capture everything but is too vague to mean anything tangible. There is a place for it in the game but we don't appear to be anywhere near finding it.

 

[The Large One]

The venue of the next World Cups and the red card and penalty jepoardy but then you know everything and are never wrong so you dont need me to tell you of instances. I shall not even bother to try. and have added you to Simmo and Stas Brother as posters not to bother to answer.

I did say - 'outside of World Cup issues...'

Also, as has been repeated here over and over again, law changes - like the red card / penalty jeopardy thing you mention - are down to IFAB, not FIFA.

Please, Brian - it isn't that hard to understand.

 

[Gwylan]

I'd address one or two aspects of the game first, before applying it unconditionally.

Firstly, offside decisions: instruct all linesmen to let marginal calls proceed and they have the ability to ask for a review when play next breaks. I would let all marginal goals stand unless a player is clearly offside on VAR.

I would say that clear offsides wouldn't need a VAR decision

Secondly, sending off offences. Referee makes a decision one way or the other, and has the ability to ask the VAR official if they can see any obvious reason why the on field decision should be overturned.

This sounds sensible, until you get into the situation like Propper's dismissal where some refs thought it was harsh and some thought it was justified. I'm not sure that it's solved anything.

Apart from anything else, people might actually bother to learn the rules because you do hear a lot of crap surrounding contentious decisions at the moment - even from pundits who have played the game for 20 years and should know better.

Yes, this would be a positive benefit - although it hasn't happened in rugby where, seemingly, you can get to be England captain without knowing the laws.

Agree with all of this. The way VAR has been implemented is a dogs breakfast. There is little to no consistency how it is applied as the 'Clear and obvious error' seems to have been interpreted as 'Use it whenever you feel like it'

But that's what's happened in rugby. VAR was originally introduced to spot clear errors but is now being used for every single decision and ref/touch judges are less important. And it's not helped reduce errors - ask Liam Williams! What was refreshning about the Commonwealth Games Sevens was that the refs tended to eschew video replays and made their own decisions; there were a couple that they probably got wrong but the game flowed better for it.

You make want VAR for important decisions but if it comes into football it will be used for everything and games will start lasting 20 minutes longer

 

[The Large One]

Agree with all of this. The way VAR has been implemented is a dogs breakfast. There is little to no consistency how it is applied as the 'Clear and obvious error' seems to have been interpreted as 'Use it whenever you feel like it' meaning the debate is, as you say, 'VAR is rubbish. I appreciate that goal line technology is clear cut but it proves technology can help the game. VAR could have been introduced for Diving, Red Cards, Penalties or Offsides - Anything but the current catch all which tries to capture everything but is too vague to mean anything tangible. There is a place for it in the game but we don't appear to be anywhere near finding it.

A pedant writes...

The words 'and obvious' seem to have crept into the lexicon for VAR. The system is only there to find 'clear errors'. The word 'obvious' isn't in the IFAB document approving the trial with the exception of references to DOGSO.

#Nerd

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I would say that clear offsides wouldn't need a VAR decision



This sounds sensible, until you get into the situation like Propper's dismissal where some refs thought it was harsh and some thought it was justified. I'm not sure that it's solved anything.



Yes, this would be a positive benefit - although it hasn't happened in rugby where, seemingly, you can get to be England captain without knowing the laws.



But that's what's happened in rugby. VAR was originally introduced to spot clear errors but is now being used for every single decision and ref/touch judges are less important. And it's not helped reduce errors - ask Liam Williams! What was refreshning about the Commonwealth Games Sevens was that the refs tended to eschew video replays and made their own decisions; there were a couple that they probably got wrong but the game flowed better for it.

You make want VAR for important decisions but if it comes into football it will be used for everything and games will start lasting 20 minutes longer

I'd admit that Rugby can go on forever and may have gone too far. For instance, trying to see if the ball is grounded under 20 men is pointless, the ref, at some point has to back himself. Admittedly, I saw very little of the 6 Nations this year - I live in a Rugby town and the snobbery towards football puts me off sometimes - but as it happens, I was watching the Liam Williams one on mute in a Pizza place whilst the kids ran riot and I tried to pretend they weren't mine. Watching the replays, I thought he hadn't grounded it and fully expected no try to be given - I was amazed the next day to see it was incorrect and the surrounding binfest. If they get it right for football, it wont take forever - I seem to remember the Palace game had no cause for it (cough Murrays handball but anyway) and it does flow most of the time given the game is heavily weighted towards attacking football. There simply must be a happy medium between Maradona punching the ball in the net and analysing with a fine tooth comb everything that goes on to the nth degree

 

[Gwylan]

I'd admit that Rugby can go on forever and may have gone too far.

Yes, that's the point I was trying to make. When it was introduced it wasn't for everything but now refs are terrified of making an error and everything is analysed to the nth degree. I watch more rugby than football and I was well in favour of video replays when they were introduced but having seen how they've slowed down rugby, I'm dead against them being introduced in football too. They may be for 'obvious' errors but, in time, every minor infraction will be examined from all angles.

 

[Hamilton]

FFS!

Just give teams 3 appeals and use VAR that way. Like tennis. Just to get us going.

This isn't hard. We really are making heavy going of this technology stuff.

 

[brightn'ove]

I wanted VAR.

I don’t want this VAR, a lot of work to be done. It completely disregards fans in the stadium and keeps them in the dark. I already always look at the lino as soon as we score, having to wait for a decision for EVERY goal would kill the game dead.

 

[Gwylan]

FFS!

Just give teams 3 appeals and use VAR that way. Like tennis. Just to get us going.

That's asking to be abused. Team A has a corner and Team B breaks from it, outnumbering Team A's defence. Team A's manager leaps onto the pitch and uses up one of his appeals on a non-existent handball. Play stops, the appeal's rejected and play restarts with a drop-ball, Team A's defence now back in place.

We all know that something like that is going to happen.