The Vaccine Thread

[sydney]

Go on, I'll bite, where is vaccine mandatory.

I've seen talk of USA and possibly Australia mooting the idea, but where else?

well its not yet .....as we / they haven't developed one , mandatory vaccination in this day and age is not going to work.

 

[darkwolf666]

well its not yet .....as we / they haven't developed one , mandatory vaccination in this day and age is not going to work.

But you said "what's with all this mandatory vaccination bollox", not mandatory vaccinations won't work!

Also, could you explain why mandatory vaccinations wouldn't work "in this day and age", is that because people have more knowledge or there are simply more Facebook/Twitter shit stirrers with a platform to peddle often unsubstantiated nonsense that the gullible believe.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

aspirin is taken primarily as a blood thinner to reduce the risk of stroke and heart attack which have a catastrophic outcome in 30-40% if instances ....asprin has been in circulation long enough for the ADR to be clear and documented ......there is that much hysteria about the covid vaccine and potential side effects that i think pfizer may be a tad disappointed come next year , and rightfully so , sure if you are willingly go and have the jab then fine but all this mandatory bollox won't work.

I was merely explaining why the “expected high volume of ADRs” sentence isn’t necessarily something to be concerned about. But, regarding vaccine “side-effects” the initial safety review of the Pfizer vaccine will include data from 30,000 subjects plus other info. Part of its approval will be based on the safety, the level of efficacy and the efficacy to safety benefit (think risk/benefit) of the vaccine.....as every single other drug is. Once approved it will still be closely monitored. It’s then up to you if you feel it’s safe enough to take...again, as every other drug is. And I don’t think it will be mandatory; what makes you think this?

PS Aspirins main use is as a painkiller and anti-inflammatory.

 

[sydney]

I was merely explaining why the “expected high volume of ADRs” sentence isn’t necessarily something to be concerned about. But, regarding vaccine “side-effects” the initial safety review of the Pfizer vaccine will include data from 30,000 subjects plus other info. Part of its approval will be based on the safety, the level of efficacy and the efficacy to safety benefit (think risk/benefit) of the vaccine.....as every single other drug is. Once approved it will still be closely monitored. It’s then up to you if you feel it’s safe enough to take...again, as every other drug is. And I don’t think it will be mandatory; what makes you think this?

PS Aspirins main use is as a painkiller and anti-inflammatory.

house full of nurses here mate ...yes aspirin is a pain killer but it is also an effective blood thinner and at a qtr of the price is widely recommended by gps instead of prescription blood thinners .........i can only go on what this idiotic government is spruiking here that if you don't have the vaccine you cant travel interstate , overseas or even go to the pictures , it's all bollox at this stage and probably media driven but Morrison has definitely said that vax could well be mandatory , it won't work and will cause yet another shit fight whilst the powers that be line their pockets from the public purse without scrutiny.

hope you are well...x

 

[sydney]

But you said "what's with all this mandatory vaccination bollox", not mandatory vaccinations won't work!

Also, could you explain why mandatory vaccinations wouldn't work "in this day and age", is that because people have more knowledge or there are simply more Facebook/Twitter shit stirrers with a platform to peddle often unsubstantiated nonsense that the gullible believe.

well you've sort of answered your own question there mate .........all the footballers who have had it seem to be doing ok...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

house full of nurses here mate ...yes aspirin is a pain killer but it is also an effective blood thinner and at a qtr of the price is widely recommended by gps instead of prescription blood thinners .........i can only go on what this idiotic government is spruiking here that if you don't have the vaccine you cant travel interstate , overseas or even go to the pictures , it's all bollox at this stage and probably media driven but Morrison has definitely said that vax could well be mandatory , it won't work and will cause yet another shit fight whilst the powers that be line their pockets from the public purse without scrutiny.

hope you are well...x

You have deviated completely from the post I made and that you quoted. I’ll leave it here.

 

[sydney]

You have deviated completely from the post I made and that you quoted. I’ll leave it here.

you are begging for a vaccine so you can travel again , i would gladly jump on a plane anywhere in the world tomorrow without one .........the difference is i have not had the choice since March and i don't do control all that well .

 

[darkwolf666]

It’s not a new phenomenon, but the apparent vocal minority are completely outvoted on an NSC poll.

I think it tells us a lot that despite how loud some people shout, the majority are free and able to make up their own minds.

Or I guess in the vocal minority view, sheep!

 

[Albion Dan]

It’s not a new phenomenon, but the apparent vocal minority are completely outvoted on an NSC poll.

I think it tells us a lot that despite how loud some people shout, the majority are free and able to make up their own minds.

Or I guess in the vocal minority view, sheep!

I’d put it down to Stockholm syndrome being alive and well in society personally. But seriously, relax, don’t worry about what other people, minority or majority think and just be happy with your view. Only time is going to show us what was right or wrong. You spend an incredible amount of time wrestling with people who’s views you disagree with. Let the ego go. If you don’t agree with information shared make good on your promise and ignore it.

 

[Poojah]

I'll be honest, my position on the vaccine is very much at the opposite end of the spectrum to the likes of [MENTION=316]Albion Dan[/MENTION] et al, however I've learned over the years that it's important to be able to see things through the eyes of others and entertain their ideas, even if they are at odds with your own. It would be arragont to assume that your own take on things is always the correct one, in fact that mindset is the creator of many of the world's problems.

Here's how I see things. We have in our midst a novel virus which left unchecked will kill many millions of people around the world. Many of these people will be elderly or have existing medical problems, but not all.

Assuming no vaccine exists, there has been no evidence (as far as I am aware) of any country maintaining anything close to economic normality without either significant levels of excess deaths, or periods of harsh lockdown. Sweden took an approach which was less economically damaging than that of the UK's for instance, but suffered (and continues to suffer) a high level of death at the hands of the virus.

In effect, our options amount to a simple and rather unpleasant balancing act. We can open the economic throttle in the knowledge that doing so will cause more people to die, or we can protect more lives whilst suffocating the economy, killing businesses (if not entire industries) and resulting in potentially millions of job losses. Neither end of that spectrum is very palatable, and landing somewhere in the middle could be construed as the worst of both worlds, so I think one thing most people would agree on is that the only strategies currently available to us are all a bit crap.

For me, vaccine-led immunity is by far the best looking pathway out of this dire predicament. In effect, we are being promised that the vaccines currently on the horizon will quickly suppress the virus and enable us to return to our lives of old. Timescales seem to suggest we could be more or less there by the early summer or even Easter, and that light at the end of the tunnel gives me great optimisim.

But evidently there are people (and I've spoken to several people who I know well and wouldn't label as conspiracist nutjobs by the way) who are sceptical or worse with respect to the vaccine being our exit strategy. My take is this; I trust in the science and procedures behind the development of the vaccines about to roll off the production line, and I do not believe there is any subterfuge or hidden agenda behind Covid-19 or related immunisation plans. I accept that the speed at which development has taken place may increase the percentage of serious adverse reactions compared to vaccines developed over a longer period, however I expect that this will be many, many times less than the serious complications humans will suffer from a virus from which they have no immunity against.

I believe it would be foolish to present any vaccine, and by that I mean literally ANY vaccine on the planet, as a risk-free solution. However, I believe that without one we are simply left with a long-term problem of excess death, severe economic hardship and restriction of freedoms. I believe that the risks of being vaccinated against Covid-19 will be miniscule to the indivudal and hugely beneficial to society as a whole. I see it as the only feasible way out of this mess in the short-term.

To the likes of Albion Dan, and I mean this as a geniune exchange of ideas, I'd be interested to know which bits of my take on the situation you disagree with and if you feel that a rapidly developed vaccine may cause more harm than good, what you'd like to see happen as an alternative?

The good thing as I see it is that I don't believe that vaccination will have to be mandatory (I think there would be some pretty severe societal consequences if it did). For those who have reservations about putting any such vaccine into their bodies, they will almost certainly have the ability to opt-out. That said, and this is purely conjecture on my part here, I suspect that many people fitting that description will have put far more hazardous substances into their body in the form of diet pills, fitness supplements, illicit drugs or tabacco products. But of course, this is something I cannot evidence.

 

[darkwolf666]

I'll be honest, my position on the vaccine is very much at the opposite end of the spectrum to the likes of [MENTION=316]Albion Dan[/MENTION] et al, however I've learned over the years that it's important to be able to see things through the eyes of others and entertain their ideas, even if they are at odds with your own. It would be arragont to assume that your own take things is always the correct one, in fact that mindset is the creator of many of the world's problems.

Here's how I see things. We have in our midst a novel virus which left unchecked will kill many millions of people around the world. Many of these people will be elderly or have existing medical problems, but not all.

Assuming no vaccine exists, there has been no evidence (as far as I am aware) of any country maintaining anything close to economic normality without either significant levels of excess deaths, or periods of harsh lockdown. Sweden took an approach which was less economically damaging than that of the UK's for instance, but suffered (and continues to suffer) a high level of death at the hands of the virus.

In effect, our options effectively amount to a simple and rather unpleasant balancing act. We can open the economic throttle in the knowledge that doing so will cause more people to die, or we can protect more lives whilst suffocating the economy, killing businesses (if not entire industries) and resulting in potentially millions of job losses. Neither end of that spectrum is very palatable, and landing somewhere in the middle could be construed as the worst of both worlds, so I think one thing most people would agree on is that the only strategies currently available to us are all a bit crap.

For me, vaccine-led immunity is by far the best looking pathway out of this dire predicament. In effect, we are being promised that the vaccines currently on the horizon will quickly suppress the virus and enable us to return to our lives of old. Timescales seem to suggest we could be more or less there by the early summer or even Easter, and that light at the end of the tunnel gives me great optimisim.

But evidently there are people (and I've spoken to several people who I know well and wouldn't label as conspiracist nutjobs by the way) who are sceptical or worse with respect to the vaccine being our exit strategy. My take is this; I trust in the science and procedures behind the development of the vaccines about to roll off the production line, and I do not believe there is any subterfuge or hidden agenda behind Covid-19 or related immunisation plans. I accept that the speed at which development has taken place may increase the percentage of serious adverse reactions compared to vaccines developed over a longer period, however I expect that this will be many, many times less than the serious complications humans will suffer from a virus from which they have no immunity against.

I believe it would be foolish to present any vaccine, and by that I mean literally ANY vaccine on the planet, as a risk-free solution. However, I believe that without one we are simply left with a long-term problem of excess death, severe economic hardship and restriction of freedoms. I believe that the risks of being vaccinated against Covid-19 will be miniscule to the indivudal and hugely beneficial to society as a whole. I see it as the only feasible way out of this mess in the short-term.

To the likes of Albion Dan, and I mean this as a geniune exchange of ideas, I'd be interested to know which bits of my take on the situation you disagree with and if you feel that a rapidly developed vaccine may cause more harm than good, what you'd like to see happen as an alternative?

The good thing as I see it is that I don't believe that vaccination will have to be mandatory (I think there would be some pretty severe societal consequences if it did). For those who have reservations about putting any such vaccine into their bodies, they will almost certainly have the ability to opt-out. That said, and this is purely conjecture on my part here, I suspect that many people fitting that description will have put far more hazardous substances into their body in the form of diet pills, fitness supplements, illicit drugs or tabacco products. But of course, this is something I cannot evidence.

That’s a very good, well considered post. I understand people’s concerns regarding the vaccine and hope it will come down to personal choice, rather than enforcement one, although I do think there may be a requirement for some kind of vaccine passport to allow full access to society, i.e. large crowd events, foreign holidays, etc.

I am sure there will be bumps in the road with regards the vaccine, but for many this will be the only way back to some level of normality. If at the end of a year’s isolation from society the vaccine gives my family the opportunity to come out from under our stone then I am happy to take the risk...!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I’d put it down to Stockholm syndrome being alive and well in society personally. But seriously, relax, don’t worry about what other people, minority or majority think and just be happy with your view. Only time is going to show us what was right or wrong. You spend an incredible amount of time wrestling with people who’s views you disagree with. Let the ego go. If you don’t agree with information shared make good on your promise and ignore it.

Great piece of psychological projection!

 

[Albion Dan]

I'll be honest, my position on the vaccine is very much at the opposite end of the spectrum to the likes of [MENTION=316]Albion Dan[/MENTION] et al, however I've learned over the years that it's important to be able to see things through the eyes of others and entertain their ideas, even if they are at odds with your own. It would be arragont to assume that your own take on things is always the correct one, in fact that mindset is the creator of many of the world's problems.

Here's how I see things. We have in our midst a novel virus which left unchecked will kill many millions of people around the world. Many of these people will be elderly or have existing medical problems, but not all.

Assuming no vaccine exists, there has been no evidence (as far as I am aware) of any country maintaining anything close to economic normality without either significant levels of excess deaths, or periods of harsh lockdown. Sweden took an approach which was less economically damaging than that of the UK's for instance, but suffered (and continues to suffer) a high level of death at the hands of the virus.

In effect, our options amount to a simple and rather unpleasant balancing act. We can open the economic throttle in the knowledge that doing so will cause more people to die, or we can protect more lives whilst suffocating the economy, killing businesses (if not entire industries) and resulting in potentially millions of job losses. Neither end of that spectrum is very palatable, and landing somewhere in the middle could be construed as the worst of both worlds, so I think one thing most people would agree on is that the only strategies currently available to us are all a bit crap.

For me, vaccine-led immunity is by far the best looking pathway out of this dire predicament. In effect, we are being promised that the vaccines currently on the horizon will quickly suppress the virus and enable us to return to our lives of old. Timescales seem to suggest we could be more or less there by the early summer or even Easter, and that light at the end of the tunnel gives me great optimisim.

But evidently there are people (and I've spoken to several people who I know well and wouldn't label as conspiracist nutjobs by the way) who are sceptical or worse with respect to the vaccine being our exit strategy. My take is this; I trust in the science and procedures behind the development of the vaccines about to roll off the production line, and I do not believe there is any subterfuge or hidden agenda behind Covid-19 or related immunisation plans. I accept that the speed at which development has taken place may increase the percentage of serious adverse reactions compared to vaccines developed over a longer period, however I expect that this will be many, many times less than the serious complications humans will suffer from a virus from which they have no immunity against.

I believe it would be foolish to present any vaccine, and by that I mean literally ANY vaccine on the planet, as a risk-free solution. However, I believe that without one we are simply left with a long-term problem of excess death, severe economic hardship and restriction of freedoms. I believe that the risks of being vaccinated against Covid-19 will be miniscule to the indivudal and hugely beneficial to society as a whole. I see it as the only feasible way out of this mess in the short-term.

To the likes of Albion Dan, and I mean this as a geniune exchange of ideas, I'd be interested to know which bits of my take on the situation you disagree with and if you feel that a rapidly developed vaccine may cause more harm than good, what you'd like to see happen as an alternative?

The good thing as I see it is that I don't believe that vaccination will have to be mandatory (I think there would be some pretty severe societal consequences if it did). For those who have reservations about putting any such vaccine into their bodies, they will almost certainly have the ability to opt-out. That said, and this is purely conjecture on my part here, I suspect that many people fitting that description will have put far more hazardous substances into their body in the form of diet pills, fitness supplements, illicit drugs or tabacco products. But of course, this is something I cannot evidence.

Great post and approach to debate. Fwiw I am happy for anybody that wants to take a vaccine to do so. If you believe in it and have confidence it is safe then go for it. What I am concerned about is the risk that it could be mandatory and that without a vaccine certain liberties could be withheld (travel, employment, digital currency when it replaces cash). I personally don’t believe in the need for vaccines for a disease that 99.7% of those who catch it recover. I have already recovered from it myself. I understand why vulnerable people feel differently and if it’s left to choice then Happy days.

I am very concerned about the long running narrative even pre covid that the entire global population should be vaccinated and only 6 days ago Hancock refused to rule out making one mandatory in the Uk.

Coincidentally I see huge protests in Denmark have recently forced their government to do a u turn after they we’re going to also mandate the vaccine.

 

[Albion Dan]

Great piece of psychological projection!

Let it go brother. You’ll find it’s my content that gets attacked and me that gets called childish names, not the other way round.

 

[darkwolf666]

Let it go brother. You’ll find it’s my content that gets attacked and me that gets called childish names, not the other way round.

Sorry Dan, it’s not your content that gets attacked, it’s your constant drip drip drip water torture of YouTube videos, what do you think of this type posts, do you know what goes into the flu vaccine posts, etc., etc., etc.

I am sure you are a well intentioned nice bloke, underneath the lecturing, conspiracy theory exterior and an Albion fan, so you’re not all bad!

 

[Poojah]

Great post and approach to debate. Fwiw I am happy for anybody that wants to take a vaccine to do so. If you believe in it and have confidence it is safe then go for it. What I am concerned about is the risk that it could be mandatory and that without a vaccine certain liberties could be withheld (travel, employment, digital currency when it replaces cash). I personally don’t believe in the need for vaccines for a disease that 99.7% of those who catch it recover. I have already recovered from it myself. I understand why vulnerable people feel differently and if it’s left to choice then Happy days.

I am very concerned about the long running narrative even pre covid that the entire global population should be vaccinated and only 6 days ago Hancock refused to rule out making one mandatory in the Uk.

Coincidentally I see huge protests in Denmark have recently forced their government to do a u turn after they we’re going to also mandate the vaccine.

Thanks for that. Personally, I don't see any vaccine for Covid-19 becoming mandatory, at least in the sense that unwilling participants could be dragged kicking and screaming and injected with it. Ever so slightly more likely, but still unlikely in my opinion, is the scenario that restrictions could be imposed on those who refuse vaccination. I think that would only apply if we find ourselves at a stage whereby we are well below the threshold for herd immunity. I am confident we won't reach that stage, but time will tell.

On the face of it, I think your point on the point of a circa 0.3% death rate seems valid. I suspect the actual death rate may be slightly higher, but putting that to one side it's not the death rate that is the problem here, but rather the infectiousness. In terms of its deadliness, Covid-19 is historically insignificant, however it's its ability to spread which makes it such a menace.

In terms of likelihood of survival, you're a lot better off getting Covid-19 than cancer. However, as we stand I suspect the odds of the average person contracting Covid over the course of the next month or two are many multiples above that of developing cancer. And I think, therein lies the rub.

Of course, just my opinion. In absolutely no regard do I purport to be an expert.

 

[Albion Dan]

Sorry Dan, it’s not your content that gets attacked, it’s your constant drip drip drip water torture of YouTube videos, what do you think of this type posts, do you know what goes into the flu vaccine posts, etc., etc., etc.

I am sure you are a well intentioned nice bloke, underneath the lecturing, conspiracy theory exterior and an Albion fan, so you’re not all bad!

Like I said its content. Take it, leave it, or ignore it. We really all need to get past this conflict with each other and accept we have different views and opinions without attacking. There are bigger problems coming imo that we are only going to solve through peace and love.

 

[Mr Banana]

I reckon anti-vaxxers should have to take it first, to prevent the most obvious source of spread.

 

[beorhthelm]

I reckon anti-vaxxers should have to take it first, to prevent the most obvious source of spread.

nah, much better to just restrict them, no travel, access to social events, etc., see how long until they get one. the few nutters left are best left to stew in their hovels.

 

[darkwolf666]

Like I said its content. Take it, leave it, or ignore it. We really all need to get past this conflict with each other and accept we have different views and opinions without attacking. There are bigger problems coming imo that we are only going to solve through peace and love.

I dare you to post something positive... Go on, you know you can!

Seriously though, maybe I should ignore it, but it is difficult when you see some of the stuff that is being trotted out, on social media, some of the newspapers, etc., as I have explained elsewhere my wife, who is extremely vulnerable, and will probably be one of the first offered the vaccine, is now not sure she wants to have it, as she has read some of the shit that gets put on Facebook.

While it is great questioning things and keeping an open mind, your posts do tend to be on the negative side of things - I'm guessing you would say that's to give balance, but it's not balanced if it's only from one side.

I like to keep an open mind about things, and do question when I feel the need, equally I put trust in people, the person who builds the plane I fly in, the manufacturer of the car I drive, the people who make the food I eat - and yes, the people who design and manufacture the drugs that are taken daily!