The 'toughness' of the Championship 2015-16 edition

[spanish flair]

No idea, but the 15m we received was for players that cost us no more than 4m combined, which is the market we are in, not the splurging 5m+ on one player market which some think we should be in. We need to find quality players which do not cost the earth. But I thought everyone knew that.

I think we know that, but last year we were just not very good at it and people are not seeing what appears to be any improvement this season.

 

[Hotchilidog]

You can't know that - the accounts for last year have not been published yet - the accounting period for 2014-15 has only just finished.

However, there have been assurances from Bloom and/or Barber that last season the club had the largest footballing budget in the history of the club. We did spend on transfer fees (Stockdale, Baldock and COG at the very least) but the implication has to be that, as you say, we were paying very high wages.

I don't believe that Bloom and/or Barber would have made the statements over the size of our budget if it were not true, as I'm sure we'll see when the accounts for last season are published 6-7 months from now.

I stand corrected as I was referring to the previously published figures which showed a massive wage bill. I would suspect that this bill did not come down last season. Our players can be rest assured that they too will be overpaid for underperforming just like those at other clubs.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I find it hard to believe that the players mentioned cost the "fortune" in football terms that you speak of, COG I believe was £500k, Holla Free transfer, Baldock £2mill and Gardner loan, unless we were overcharged by agents and Villa for Gardner's loan. As you seem to know, perhaps you can pass on to the rest of us what was the combined cost of those players to the club.

At the risk of stating the obvious, transfer fees are a small part of the playing budget. I understand that we paid high wages which took up a large chunk.

 

[Bozza]

The club clearly took a direction of trimming playing costs as Gus alluded to before his departure. The ceiling was very real and is the large reason we no longer see the calibre of player we did in those first seasons.

They clearly haven't though. During Oscar Garcia's season we spent £20.7m on our football budget, which was nearly £1m more than Poyet had the season before.

My interpretation of Poyet's "ceiling" was that he wanted Bloom to really go for it - to spend big to get up the following season, and it represented a gamble that we weren't prepared to take.

The problem is that a lot of people still perceive "going for it" as spending big on transfer fees. Yes, there can be elements of that, but the bigger cost is wages. Rosenior didn't cost us a penny in transfer fees (although there are bound to be signing-on and/or agent fees involved) but his wages will be significant.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I think we know that, but last year we were just not very good at it and people are not seeing what appears to be any improvement this season.

Isn't it a bit early to be judging our new acquisitions? There is another 6 weeks of the transfer market still as well, so I am sure we are not finished yet. Yes, I know we want players in as early as possible, but that is not always possible. The more sought after players are bound to hold out as long as possible to get the best deal possible - I just hope that we are at the top of their preferred club of choice.

 

[spanish flair]

At the risk of stating the obvious, transfer fees are a small part of the playing budget. I understand that we paid high wages which took up a large chunk.

That makes matters worse, if we are paying over priced wages for poorer players, you have to question the clubs management in total for allowing it to happen.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

"Non football" ? -
What is a "non football" person ?
Is Bloom "non football " ?
Barber might not be to your taste and some would call him lots of things but "non football"
He's not. (If working, watching and coaching football might count) .
What type of "football" CEO would you prefer ?

Or is it the rest of the board who aren't football enough ?

Sorry Paul.

 

[spanish flair]

Isn't it a bit early to be judging our new acquisitions? There is another 6 weeks of the transfer market still as well, so I am sure we are not finished yet. Yes, I know we want players in as early as possible, but that is not always possible. The more sought after players are bound to hold out as long as possible to get the best deal possible - I just hope that we are at the top of their preferred club of choice.

Agreed it is to early and players like Bong and Hemed might just turn out to be wiser signings than Colunga and Toko who were also unknown quantities .

 

[Bozza]

That makes matters worse, if we are paying over priced wages for poorer players, you have to question the clubs management in total for allowing it to happen.

To a degree you do, although given the dramatic shake-up that has happened amongst the club's recruitment team, I think you can say that the questions have already been asked. And answered too.

This isn't a science though. Player recruitment sometimes just doesn't work regardless of the efforts made to try and ensure a high success rate. There are examples at the very highest level see: Angel Di Maria (Man Utd) and Fernando Torres (Chelsea) etc.

 

[KZNSeagull]

That makes matters worse, if we are paying over priced wages for poorer players, you have to question the clubs management in total for allowing it to happen.

It was questioned and the person responsible left. We have had a similar discussion before regarding TB trusting the judgement of his staff - clearly he did no longer did and took action to remedy it.

 

[spanish flair]

It was questioned and the person responsible left. We have had a similar discussion before regarding TB trusting the judgement of his staff - clearly he did no longer did and took action to remedy it.

I really find it hard to believe that Burke had sole responsibility for deciding new players wages and the team Manager, Barber and Bloom were not consulted on what we paid new signings.

 

[Seasider78]

They clearly haven't though. During Oscar Garcia's season we spent £20.7m on our football budget, which was nearly £1m more than Poyet had the season before.

My interpretation of Poyet's "ceiling" was that he wanted Bloom to really go for it - to spend big to get up the following season, and it represented a gamble that we weren't prepared to take.

The problem is that a lot of people still perceive "going for it" as spending big on transfer fees. Yes, there can be elements of that, but the bigger cost is wages. Rosenior didn't cost us a penny in transfer fees (although there are bound to be signing-on and/or agent fees involved) but his wages will be significant.

Oscars season we still had a lot of Gus team still under contract so there is no easy way to quickly row back from that. I would be interested to see this years accounts when the big fees came in. For me the Ulloa sale was great business but we had £8m in our pockets and rather than buying proven quality we took a punt on a league 1 striker (not learnt from the CMS nightmare) and COG (less said the better)

We sold Buckley and did not replace him we sold Bridcutt and up until last season relied on youth players to fill the void.

Now it may not show in the numbers but when I talk about ambition I don't mean spending £5m on a single player but rather paying what is necessary to get in the required quality to thrive in this division. Christ we paid £3-4m for CMS when we first got promoted we had Vicente on high wages why is that money not around to buy proven quality now? Or have we seriously spent the same money on last seasons underachievers?!!!!

It's too easy to lay the blame solely at the door of the recruitment team as for some reason we are not attracting or signing the quality of player we did when we were first promoted and considering we have a good few seasons in this league under our belts for me this is a bit worrying

 

[Bozza]

Now it may not show in the numbers but when I talk about ambition I don't mean spending £5m on a single player but rather paying what is necessary to get in the required quality to thrive in this division. Christ we paid £3-4m for CMS when we first got promoted we had Vicente on high wages why is that money not around to buy proven quality now? Or have we seriously spent the same money on last seasons underachievers?!!!!

You're doing it again though - talking about fees as though they are the only measure of ambition, or only way to secure quality.

Look:

Buy a player for £3m, pay him £20,000 a week for a 4 year deal = £7.16m
Get a player on a free transfer, pay him £30,000 a week for 4 years = £6.24m

 

[KZNSeagull]

I really find it hard to believe that Burke had sole responsibility for deciding new players wages and the team Manager, Barber and Bloom were not consulted on what we paid new signings.

I have no doubt Bloom and to some extent Barber have a veto where wages are concerned (if they are outside of the current wage structure). But at the end of the day, Bloom, Barber and the rest of the board have to trust the judgement of the person recommending the signing and the wage offer to make - if Bloom second guessed his staff, everyone would complain that he is too interfering in footballing matters. We know that Sami and Oscar were not heavily involved in the financial decision making, which was heavily criticised by some. Hughton now appears to be. So now, Bloom will be putting his trust into Hughton and Paul Winstanley's decisions. If they turn out to sign duds as well, no doubt he will do something about that too.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Isn't it a bit early to be judging our new acquisitions? There is another 6 weeks of the transfer market still as well, so I am sure we are not finished yet. Yes, I know we want players in as early as possible, but that is not always possible. The more sought after players are bound to hold out as long as possible to get the best deal possible - I just hope that we are at the top of their preferred club of choice.

I'm not sure anybody is judging any of the new signings, in fact I think most are more than happy with Rosenior, Hemed etc. What I would say is that people our judging our overall transfer business by comparing it to last summer. As you say, there are 6 weeks of the window left, this will quickly become 5, then 4, then 3 and then it'll be shut, people are probably concerned as this time last year we were told to wait until the end of the window, which we did, we were then left with an absolutely horse shit squad which was totally devoid of goals and creativity. I'm sure you can understand why people are asking questions because at the moment it looks dangerously like we are mirroring last summer's shambolic activity.

 

[Danny-Boy]

To a degree you do, although given the dramatic shake-up that has happened amongst the club's recruitment team, I think you can say that the questions have already been asked. And answered too.

This isn't a science though. Player recruitment sometimes just doesn't work regardless of the efforts made to try and ensure a high success rate. There are examples at the very highest level see: Angel Di Maria (Man Utd) and Fernando Torres (Chelsea) etc.

Sometimes clubs bring in players for the wrong reasons, I think CMS was an example of that. It was to my mind a case of "We don't need a replacement for Muzza, we are going down a different path in playing style" statement, when clearly Albion did need a target man, which CMS never was.

 

[chaileyjem]

Sorry Paul.

I might be slightly more impressed with our CEO than yourself but i can assure you i don't own an orange V.neck jumper if thats what you're implying. The very thought of it.

 

[perseus]

Middlesbrough have only signed one player so far today.

http://talksport.com/football/chelsea-defender-tomas-kalas-re-joins-middlesbrough-loan-150717157839?

Maybe they have shot their bolt, or slipping. They must have surplus wingers by now.

 

[spanish flair]

I have no doubt Bloom and to some extent Barber have a veto where wages are concerned (if they are outside of the current wage structure). But at the end of the day, Bloom, Barber and the rest of the board have to trust the judgement of the person recommending the signing and the wage offer to make - if Bloom second guessed his staff, everyone would complain that he is too interfering in footballing matters. We know that Sami and Oscar were not heavily involved in the financial decision making, which was heavily criticised by some. Hughton now appears to be. So now, Bloom will be putting his trust into Hughton and Paul Winstanley's decisions. If they turn out to sign duds as well, no doubt he will do something about that too.

Did I not read that it was Bloom who refused to up the Grabben offer, rightly so, but we have to believe all four are involved in what we pay individuals when we sign them. So I believe that if we overpaid last seasons signings, then the blame is shared between all four of them.

 

[Seasider78]

You're doing it again though - talking about fees as though they are the only measure of ambition, or only way to secure quality.

Look:

Buy a player for £3m, pay him £20,000 a week for a 4 year deal = £7.16m
Get a player on a free transfer, pay him £30,000 a week for 4 years = £6.24m

I am not fundamentally disagreeing with you there are different ways to bring in quality which lives beyond the signing on fee. I agree fees are not the only thing although I am a firm believer of you get what you pay for. However lets remove fees from the equation who have we brought in recently who is in the same level of quality as our initial Amex seasons? We had Buckley, Ulloa, Orlandi, Lopez, Upson, Conway, TK, Ward, Noone we we not signing anywhere near that quality of player of late and the league tab,e did not lie last season.

We may be paying similar sums but for me the level of quality has dropped significantly and last seasons table agrees with me. Maybe it's premature but I still do not feel we have addressed the shortfall and whilst people can openly quote spending figures the team as it stands today is weaker than the one we got promoted with