[Football] The ticking Profit and Sustainability (FFP) timebomb...

[The Grockle]

But the Glasers have saddled Manure with more than a billion of debt. That's the way some, but not all, of these scumbags work. Some put in their own money but other borrow against the club's assets and create a huge amount of debt.

Yeah I agree it's disgusting but part of me thinks if an owner can prove it comes from a 'clean' source and isn't a debt saddled on the club they should be able to bring cash to a club.

If it was done above board with regulation and was in the spirit of competition then I think it would be better than dodgy backdoor methods currently used. The investor gets the cash injection approved by the PL for example with conditions such as wages being a set percentage of revenue

 

[ElectricNaz]

I would also penalise them on a count back basis - work out the overspend and don’t allow any players purchased from the time they went overbudget to play.

More extreme than my version, but actually I like that a lot. A hell of a lot. Punishes the club, player and agent. Means player and agent need to do more research other than "how many zeroes"

(Edit) Actually in hindsight after two minutes of thinking, will the player or agent care if on an 8 year contract for 150k a week and they're not allowed to play? I'd be loving my life if that was me.

 

[Creaky]

Covering losses within the official boundaries is far different from spending way above that. I think in our final two years in the Champ we lost something like 12m overall (covered by chairman) when there were teams in the Champ getting 4-6 times that a season in parachute payments alone

Make that £38.9m in 2916/17 and £25m in 2015/16

 

[Weststander]

Chelsea had Frank Lampard to steer them through the austerity caused by using kids from the academy as back up players. Probably the only time he’s done a half reasonable job as a manager.

I am not holding my breath that any of the mega rich clubs will be held to account and meaningfully punished for over spend though, top lawyers will see to that. Chelsea was probably a one off. We’ll see.

Interesting thread though

It wasn’t austerity.

Because the authorities bizarrely gave the Chavs an age of warning on what was coming, they went on a big spending spree before the short transfers ban kicked in.

He was handed a star studded squad.

 

[dazzer6666]

Do you mean this lawsuit against Barclays ?

Amanda Staveley loses high court action against Barclays | Barclays | The Guardian

High-profile financier sought £660m damages saying bank bosses misled her as she helped secure deal to save bank in 2008

amp.theguardian.com

She comes across as a bit of a chancer in that saga. Suing for financial loss despite not losing money.

I was at Barclays at the time.....

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I was at Barclays at the time.....

Banks get a bad press but there are many interesting characters in the financial world.

 

[Weststander]

Banks get a bad press but there are many interesting characters in the financial world.

Robin Leigh Pemberton. With his stunning neo Georgian mansion in Kent.

 

[ElectricNaz]

I was at Barclays at the time.....

Blame dazzer for every breach of FFP ever. I think it's the only reasonable solution

 

[abc]

Learning a lot from this thread, thanks all. The number of conversations I’ve had with football fans of all clubs along the lines of ‘one day football will eat itself’ and now it feels like it’s going to happen.

 

[Perry Milkins]

Robin Leigh Pemberton. With his stunning Georgian mansion in Kent.

Old NW chairman?

 

[Flounce]

It wasn’t austerity.

Because the authorities bizarrely gave the Chavs an age of warning on what was coming, they went on a big spending spree before the short transfers ban kicked in.

He was handed a star studded squad.

I stand corrected but I seem to remember plenty of very young players being given a chance. Was that at the expense of the big money signings because he found them easier to manage?

 

[Weststander]

Old NW chairman?

I’m not sure, but he served as Governor of the BoE at the end of his career.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

It wasn’t austerity.

Because the authorities bizarrely gave the Chavs an age of warning on what was coming, they went on a big spending spree before the short transfers ban kicked in.

He was handed a star studded squad.

Nooo, surely he was forced to scrape together a team of 12 year olds from nearby back alleys.
That's my recollection anyway.

 

[Perry Milkins]

I’m not sure, but he served as Governor of the BoE at the end of his career.

Have checked. Yes he was.

 

[dazzer6666]

Villa making noises about not being able to buy without selling now

Going to make a pretty dull window

It's a complete log jam of players, teams can't buy without selling, but nobody can buy those players as they need to sell as well.

Some of these clubs have massive squads, which is down to poor recruitment, Newcastles wage bill must be massive

Not for us perhaps. Miles within the limits due to genius management/ownership and Boehly being a twat, several competitors chasing around for a few spare quid and having to sell ‘one of their own’ to plug gaps in their squads due to a failure to develop cover in their youth ranks and some potentially punitive penalties heading the way of a select few. PB and TB are going to come out of this with even more enhanced reputations. Meanwhile, we quietly sign yet another future superstar for relative peanuts while the fans of ‘big clubs’ gnash their teeth

 

[Giraffe]

Must admit I was surprised to see where we are on this graph. I guess the key element though is that a lot of these losses were in just a few seasons before we then cashed in on the players we have sold and therefore we are alright jack. But had we got the player recruitment wrong we mightv’e been in a stack of trouble given our revenue is probably less than most of the others on this graph?

 

[El Presidente]

Totally agree. Until Man City get punished with a points deduction then FFP is not a level playing field. If and when the big clubs start to get punished then BHA are in an unbelievably strong position moving forward over the next couple of seasons. UTA.

FFP has never been, and was never intended to be, a level playing field. UEFA state as much themselves on their website.

The Premier League used to be a cosy (and dull, which is rich coming from me I acknowledge ) duopoly of Manchester United and Arsenal. Abramovich came along and was a disruptor with his wealth in 2003, making it a three horse competition, Mansour then did the same in 2008.

Fearful of not being guaranteed Champions League positions the elite created FFP, giving lip service to financial cost control but in reality trying to create a model that prevented ANOTHER Chelsea or Manchester City arising. Everton tried it to a degree (owner out in £750m in 5 years, where his money comes from is not for public consumptio) but then had to slam on brakes, albeit too late, due to PSR. Newcastle are now finding the same.

When Leicester had the temerity to win the Premier League in 2016, the response of the Sneaky Six was to change the financial distribution rules to tilt the money more in favour of themselves, making it even more difficult for smaller clubs, such as Crystal Palace for example, to not only win things, but more importantly qualify for CL which is worth up to £150 million in a season. The threat of creating/joining a franchise league was used to make the ‘Other 14’ cave into the demands of the elite.

But that wasn’t enough, as we saw with the Frankenstei’s monster that was Project Big Powergrab, which would have resulted in voting rights, control and decision making in the whole of football being effectively transferred to just six clubs.

The failure of SuperLeague has left the elite licking their wounds, they are used to getting their own way. The likes of the Glazers and John Henry are just biding their time, trying to find an alternate route to getting what they want by persuading their fans that if SL is set up then their clubs will be less competitive unless they join it. John Henry is a very smart guy, why else would his young wife marry the 74 year old commodities trading billionaire?

The Premier League is at war with itself, which is why Masters and Parry are being grilled by politicians this week. The ‘New Deal’ which would see a modest increase in money being transferred from PL to EFL has not been signed off, and the £88m of extra interim funding for this season withheld whilst PL clubs squabble over how the money will be split between the 20.

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

FFP has never been, and was never intended to be, a level playing field. UEFA state as much themselves on their website.

The Premier League used to be a cosy (and dull, which is rich coming from me I acknowledge ) duopoly of Manchester United and Arsenal. Abramovich came along and was a disruptor with his wealth in 2003, making it a three horse competition, Mansour then did the same in 2008.

Fearful of not being guaranteed Champions League positions the elite created FFP, giving lip service to financial cost control but in reality trying to create a model that prevented ANOTHER Chelsea or Manchester City arising. Everton tried it to a degree (owner out in £750m in 5 years, where his money comes from is not for public consumptio) but then had to slam on brakes, albeit too late, due to PSR. Newcastle are now finding the same.

When Leicester had the temerity to win the Premier League in 2016, the response of the Sneaky Six was to change the financial distribution rules to tilt the money more in favour of themselves, making it even more difficult for smaller clubs, such as Crystal Palace for example, to not only win things, but more importantly qualify for CL which is worth up to £150 million in a season. The threat of creating/joining a franchise league was used to make the ‘Other 14’ cave into the demands of the elite.

But that wasn’t enough, as we saw with the Frankenstei’s monster that was Project Big Powergrab, which would have resulted in voting rights, control and decision making in the whole of football being effectively transferred to just six clubs.

The failure of SuperLeague has left the elite licking their wounds, they are used to getting their own way. The likes of the Glazers and John Henry are just biding their time, trying to find an alternate route to getting what they want by persuading their fans that if SL is set up then their clubs will be less competitive unless they join it. John Henry is a very smart guy, why else would his young wife marry the 74 year old commodities trading billionaire?

The Premier League is at war with itself, which is why Masters and Parry are being grilled by politicians this week. The ‘New Deal’ which would see a modest increase in money being transferred from PL to EFL has not been signed off, and the £88m of extra interim funding for this season withheld whilst PL clubs squabble over how the money will be split between the 20.

Thanks - that’s a really succinct summary that even eejits like me can understand

 

[Frankie]

Everton's 10 point deduction will have certainly raised many a eyebrow to those clubs that have blatantly flouted the FFP laws of the game and their lawyers will be no doubt rubbing their hands with glee,but I found the timing of the ruling rather strange and would like to see in black and white a definite date for the points deductions and fines for all clubs that have broken the previous years rules on the same day and time,although unlikely to happen there must be a way to do this rather than random stages of the season.

Any club that doesn't comply with submitting their accounts on time would also be liable for a points deduction even if they're within the FFP rules.

With the current system if that's what you call it the points deductions seem to happen at convenient times for clubs rather than when it could hurt them,if any club found guilty of breaking FFP rules and that club went on to win a trophy of title during that time then the proverbial book should be thrown at them, let's be clear they've cheated and that's simply not right,you may as well throw all sports rules out the window if it's seemingly ok to cheat your way to the top in football.

It's become a joke not a funny one how certain football clubs have thus far avoided any consequences, hopefully this will now change but I really want to see a kind of deadline day implemented when the whole thing is sorted out so the people who actually go to watch football know exactly what's happening at all times.

Obviously none of the above applies to Man Utd,Man City, Chelsea,Spurs, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, special cases will be made for these teams for 5 years until they can manage to find their own FA Cup monies.

 

[ElectricNaz]

Everton's 10 point deduction will have certainly raised many a eyebrow to those clubs that have blatantly flouted the FFP laws of the game and their lawyers will be no doubt rubbing their hands with glee,but I found the timing of the ruling rather strange and would like to see in black and white a definite date for the points deductions and fines for all clubs that have broken the previous years rules on the same day and time,although unlikely to happen there must be a way to do this rather than random stages of the season.

Any club that doesn't comply with submitting their accounts on time would also be liable for a points deduction even if they're within the FFP rules.

With the current system if that's what you call it the points deductions seem to happen at convenient times for clubs rather than when it could hurt them,if any club found guilty of breaking FFP rules and that club went on to win a trophy of title during that time then the proverbial book should be thrown at them, let's be clear they've cheated and that's simply not right,you may as well throw all sports rules out the window if it's seemingly ok to cheat your way to the top in football.

It's become a joke not a funny one how certain football clubs have thus far avoided any consequences, hopefully this will now change but I really want to see a kind of deadline day implemented when the whole thing is sorted out so the people who actually go to watch football know exactly what's happening at all times.

Obviously none of the above applies to Man Utd,Man City, Chelsea,Spurs, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, special cases will be made for these teams for 5 years until they can manage to find their own FA Cup monies.

I think Arsenal, Newcastle Liverpool, Man United and Spurs it doesn't matter because they do a good enough job at managing it. It does apply to them because they do a good enough job at managing it.

Chelsea and City on the other hand...