[Football] The ticking Profit and Sustainability (FFP) timebomb...

[Bozza]

5Live whilst I was taking my son to scouts last night, so 7:15-7:45ish...

5 Live Sport - The Friday Football Social - 12/01/2024 - BBC Sounds

Darren Fletcher looks ahead to this weekend's football. Plus updates of Burnley v Luton.

www.bbc.co.uk

^^^ listen from 19 minutes.

 

[Oh_aye]

Bloom has set up a sustainable model for us which we can be proud of but part of me thinks that FFP only serves to keep the traditional 'big clubs' at the top of the pile.

I feel comfortable with our approach and am eternally grateful for what Tony has done and is doing for us but part of me thinks if he felt inclined to spunk an extra half a billion of his own cash to help us compete for a title or top four push then why the hell shouldn't he be allowed to.

As long as an owner can demonstrate that their investment doesn't saddle their club with debt part of me feels a owner should be able to spend a load of cash without scrutiny.

It's not so much that an owner should be able to sponk as much as they want on a club. My issue is the uneven way its been handled. Everton have been a car crash for ages but have, for two seasons been trying to flog their players, work with the Premier league and fell foul of some odd circumstances - gylfi siggurdson sale not happening, Richarlison going for less than expected, and the war in Ukraine sanctions removing a load of sponsorships they had. And they got fined, in-season, a pretty amazing precedent, on a small accounting difference. Something odd about the urgency and timings.

On the other hand Man City and Chelsea previously bought billions of pounds worth of non competetive success for years but have FÙCK YOU money so can keep the litigation rolling for ever.

The main message seems to be if you're going to break the rules do it big time. Meanwhile also a load of clubs threatened to create their own entire breakaway league and all they got was a slapped wrist.

The who hokey-cokey of points in season just seems like the prem are making it up as they go along, also really making themselves open to legal issues and countersuing due to the inconsistent and kangaroo court nature of their decision making.

A better approach would be something approaching a past amnesty, and then a proper set of arbitrated financial rules applied evenly to every club in the same way at the same time.

I might be the only person who puts rivalries aside for a minute and feels sorry for some of the fans of these clubs. Who never chose any of it. There but for the grace of God (Tony) etc...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Wolves are paying Fabio Silva 42k a week basic, if that is an indication of the the books, no wonder they are in the shit.

 

[drew]

For those saying FFP or PSR or whatever is just sustaining the status quo of the big clubs, take a look at what is happening. It seems to me that the rules are now only just starting to bite and maybe tomorrow, we'll see just how hard!

Furthermore, what would you put in place if it were abandoned bearing in mind the aim is firstly to ensure clubs don't go bust with the side effect of reigning in the clubs whose owners/countries have a bottomless pit of wealth.

There never will be a level playing field, there never has been, at least not since the abolition of the maximum wage. Clubs with bigger revenues have always had the pick of the players but there must be some mechanism to prevent an escalation of costs just because petro countries can.

Perhaps increase the number of Home grown players and require more in the starting 11 and maybe require half of HGP come through a clubs own academy!!!

 

[KZNSeagull]

For those saying FFP or PSR or whatever is just sustaining the status quo of the big clubs, take a look at what is happening. It seems to me that the rules are now only just starting to bite and maybe tomorrow, we'll see just how hard!

Furthermore, what would you put in place if it were abandoned bearing in mind the aim is firstly to ensure clubs don't go bust with the side effect of reigning in the clubs whose owners/countries have a bottomless pit of wealth.

There never will be a level playing field, there never has been, at least not since the abolition of the maximum wage. Clubs with bigger revenues have always had the pick of the players but there must be some mechanism to prevent an escalation of costs just because petro countries can.

Perhaps increase the number of Home grown players and require more in the starting 11 and maybe require half of HGP come through a clubs own academy!!!

This is what I hope and that the cynicism around it starts to disappear as we start to see real sanctions affecting big clubs. Hopefully not a false hope. A quick resolution to the Man City issue would help of course.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

This is what I hope and that the cynicism around it starts to disappear as we start to see real sanctions affecting big clubs. Hopefully not a false hope. A quick resolution to the Man City issue would help of course.

Totally agree. Until Man City get punished with a points deduction then FFP is not a level playing field. If and when the big clubs start to get punished then BHA are in an unbelievably strong position moving forward over the next couple of seasons. UTA.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It's not so much that an owner should be able to sponk as much as they want on a club. My issue is the uneven way its been handled. Everton have been a car crash for ages but have, for two seasons been trying to flog their players, work with the Premier league and fell foul of some odd circumstances - gylfi siggurdson sale not happening, Richarlison going for less than expected, and the war in Ukraine sanctions removing a load of sponsorships they had. And they got fined, in-season, a pretty amazing precedent, on a small accounting difference. Something odd about the urgency and timings.

On the other hand Man City and Chelsea previously bought billions of pounds worth of non competetive success for years but have FÙCK YOU money so can keep the litigation rolling for ever.

The main message seems to be if you're going to break the rules do it big time. Meanwhile also a load of clubs threatened to create their own entire breakaway league and all they got was a slapped wrist.

The who hokey-cokey of points in season just seems like the prem are making it up as they go along, also really making themselves open to legal issues and countersuing due to the inconsistent and kangaroo court nature of their decision making.

A better approach would be something approaching a past amnesty, and then a proper set of arbitrated financial rules applied evenly to every club in the same way at the same time.

I might be the only person who puts rivalries aside for a minute and feels sorry for some of the fans of these clubs. Who never chose any of it. There but for the grace of God (Tony) etc...

I have heard that from Everton fans. But they benefited from watching football at a higher level than should have happened whilst Sheff Utd or Burnley fans watched football in the Championship. This idea that the fans are poor innocents in all of this does not stand up to any scrutiny.

 

[Oh_aye]

I have heard that from Everton fans. But they benefited from watching football at a higher level than should have happened whilst Sheff Utd or Burnley fans watched football in the Championship. This idea that the fans are poor innocents in all of this does not stand up to any scrutiny.

You think?

Because the fans watched the team that was put on the field they become complicit to financial irregularity?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Villa making noises about not being able to buy without selling now

Going to make a pretty dull window

It's a complete log jam of players, teams can't buy without selling, but nobody can buy those players as they need to sell as well.

Some of these clubs have massive squads, which is down to poor recruitment, Newcastles wage bill must be massive

 

[ManOfSussex]

Anyone else noticed Martin Samuels shilling for the Saudis and claiming Newcastle should be able to spend what they want 'because they have the money'?

Believe me, there are powerful people out there trying to remove FFP as a concept or, at least, change the rules.

Anything Martin Samuel says in The Times/The Sunday Times about FFP comes with the caveat that his son works for Manchester City.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Villa making noises about not being able to buy without selling now

Going to make a pretty dull window

It's a complete log jam of players, teams can't buy without selling, but nobody can buy those players as they need to sell as well.

Some of these clubs have massive squads, which is down to poor recruitment, Newcastles wage bill must be massive

Great if it's a dull window - coaches may have to start actually coaching their players instead of just continually demanding their clubs buy buy buy.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

You think?

Because the fans watched the team that was put on the field they become complicit to financial irregularity?

No, they benefitted from watching football at a higher level than should have been the case. They are not innocent to receiving a benefit. If the club is not to be docked points then how else should they repay that benefit they were not entitled to ?

 

[abc]

Villa making noises about not being able to buy without selling now

Going to make a pretty dull window

It's a complete log jam of players, teams can't buy without selling, but nobody can buy those players as they need to sell as well.

Could this lead to a collapse in transfer fees? If so, the implications could be massive

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Could this lead to a collapse in transfer fees? If so, the implications could be massive

And very positive for the game.

 

[beorhthelm]

I have heard that from Everton fans. But they benefited from watching football at a higher level than should have happened whilst Sheff Utd or Burnley fans watched football in the Championship. This idea that the fans are poor innocents in all of this does not stand up to any scrutiny.

FFP sanctions after years of medicority must be pretty annoying.

 

[Oh_aye]

FFP sanctions after years of medicority must be pretty annoying.

I think that's the sad reality for Everton fans.

All that money pissed away and they got to watch Yanick Bolasie and Theo Walcott in a series of relegation scraps.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Could this lead to a collapse in transfer fees? If so, the implications could be massive

The PL always had Spain/Italy to flog unwanted players, even if it was for a smallish fee, that seems to happen less and less as these clubs are poor.

I think we will see clubs cutting the amount of senior players, with the squad made up youngsters

Newcastles squad is massive, they have made no real effort to off load anyone

 

[Seagull58]

Bloom has set up a sustainable model for us which we can be proud of but part of me thinks that FFP only serves to keep the traditional 'big clubs' at the top of the pile.

I feel comfortable with our approach and am eternally grateful for what Tony has done and is doing for us but part of me thinks if he felt inclined to spunk an extra half a billion of his own cash to help us compete for a title or top four push then why the hell shouldn't he be allowed to.

As long as an owner can demonstrate that their investment doesn't saddle their club with debt part of me feels a owner should be able to spend a load of cash without scrutiny.

But the Glasers have saddled Manure with more than a billion of debt. That's the way some, but not all, of these scumbags work. Some put in their own money but other borrow against the club's assets and create a huge amount of debt.

 

[Seagull58]

Staveley has been exposed to at least one very nasty financial regulatory incident and related court cases - completely see why Toon are being managed tightly within the rules. She’s a slick operator.

Oil slick?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Staveley has been exposed to at least one very nasty financial regulatory incident and related court cases - completely see why Toon are being managed tightly within the rules. She’s a slick operator.

Do you mean this lawsuit against Barclays ?

Amanda Staveley loses high court action against Barclays | Barclays | The Guardian

High-profile financier sought £660m damages saying bank bosses misled her as she helped secure deal to save bank in 2008

amp.theguardian.com

She comes across as a bit of a chancer in that saga. Suing for financial loss despite not losing money.