[Politics] The Sun - nurses ?

[dazzer6666]

My point is more that little time and money needs to be spent on developing a healthcare model, the wheel doesn’t need reinventing.

It wouldn’t be little for either time or money

 

[Weststander]

There has to be an answer though. The current situation can’t carry on.

I wish we’d do what you suggest.

But it will never happen here. It’s not just the one-off money and logistics involved. Politics would mean that anyone suggesting it (from any party) would be labelled as “wanting to destroy the NHS”.

 

[beorhthelm]

It really, really isn’t. The costs, timescale and project complexity (and politics, vested interests etc) of changing the model would be on a scale poss not seen in any organisation, ever. Would take years to plan, let alone implement.

Not sure what the answer is though - we’re currently stuck with an NHS that is simply too big to change and is a bottomless pit into which no amount of money thrown into it will ever be ‘enough’.

it is simple to outline a new strategy for healthcare, using many examples across the world and blueprints. of course its difficult to implement, especially when there is a cultish devotion to the current ideology. it doesnt have to be done in one go though. for example we could break up the GP monopoly on referal, allow patients go to speciallists (i have a problem with my foot - why must i go to a GP to send me to the podiatrist? its wasteful in time and money). we could look at the inflexible general hospital model, putting all services under one roof with limited space for the medium to long term care. set out a vision for change, work through it, end the pretense our current model is the best and must not be changed.

 

[LamieRobertson]

it is simple to outline a new strategy for healthcare, using many examples across the world and blueprints. of course its difficult to implement, especially when there is a cultish devotion to the current ideology. it doesnt have to be done in one go though. for example we could break up the GP monopoly on referal, allow patients go to speciallists (i have a problem with my foot - why must i go to a GP to send me to the podiatrist? its wasteful in time and money). we could look at the inflexible general hospital model, putting all services under one roof with limited space for the medium to long term care. set out a vision for change, work through it, end the pretense our current model is the best and must not be changed.

If you can afford it you end of going straight to a specialist as sometimes previous experience has told you seeing the doctor is a waste of time …I had plantar fasciitis earlier this year…did all the exercises I picked up off YouTube etc…no change bypassed the GP paid to see a podiatrist and got the problem resolved….similarly I go straight to a physio with a kness issue ..basically it’s my own private medical insurance to keep me in work …so agreed!

 

[Wardy's twin]

My point is more that little time and money needs to be spent on developing a healthcare model, the wheel doesn’t need reinventing.

it does require the political will to want a public sector solution which is not in keeping with the current government.

 

[dazzer6666]

it does require the political will to want a public sector solution which is not in keeping with the current government.

Secondary point to be honest - wouldn’t be a ‘single term’ job, it’s much bigger than that - whether it was a principally public or private-led solution the same issues arise. Too big and complex a job and too many opposing interests on either side getting in the way. As @Weststander says, any party trying to do it is going to be accused of trying to destroy the NHS by the other. It‘s so big and critical it would need an all-party collaboration to move it forward - which ain’t going to happen.

 

[attila]

An economic system where bankers' bonuses are not restricted, but nurses' wages are, is utterly without value and worthy only of the dustbin of history.

 

[talk2knighty]

An economic system where bankers' bonuses are not restricted, but nurses' wages are, is utterly without value and worthy only of the dustbin of history.

Agreed and to take the point further an organisation such as the NHS creating “lived experience” director jobs on salaries of up to £115,000 pa tells you all you need to know about how they waste millions each year!!

 

[dazzer6666]

An economic system where bankers' bonuses are not restricted, but nurses' wages are, is utterly without value and worthy only of the dustbin of history.

Tricky one that. The former is basically a cut of the profits they are making for the owners of the company (shareholders) so they fluctuate, and 45% of which in most cases ends up going to HMRC….to pay nurses wages. Also not sure unrestricted wages in the public sector would be particularly clever.

 

[beorhthelm]

An economic system where bankers' bonuses are not restricted, but nurses' wages are, is utterly without value and worthy only of the dustbin of history.

i dont see why the two are compared. maybe change nursing so they can earn fees on number of patients seen, or complexity of conditions, share of money saved in their department?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Agreed and to take the point further an organisation such as the NHS creating “lived experience” director jobs on salaries of up to £115,000 pa tells you all you need to know about how they waste millions each year!!

As I said in an earlier post, I am fine with embedding lived experience into health care. What don’t you like about it?

 

[jcdenton08]

Is Oliver Dowden really the right man for this job? He couldn’t negotiate a… cat

 

[Wardy's twin]

Secondary point to be honest - wouldn’t be a ‘single term’ job, it’s much bigger than that - whether it was a principally public or private-led solution the same issues arise. Too big and complex a job and too many opposing interests on either side getting in the way. As @Weststander says, any party trying to do it is going to be accused of trying to destroy the NHS by the other. It‘s so big and critical it would need an all-party collaboration to move it forward - which ain’t going to happen.

Agreed and that's why I am generally in favour of centralist politics not the extremes of left or right which generally detract from progress in a straight line which is important for long term strategy such as health , social care, education and a few others. The specific problem we have at the moment is the Tory party power brokers want to move more to the right because they still perceive a threat from the remnants of UKIP, Reform UK etc and funding the NHS is not so important to them . Equally Corbyn was never going to get in let alone survive in a country where the population is generally right of centre in its thinking.

 

[abc]

You do not need to ask anyone how to run the NHS. I have said this before, there are many decent properly run public health care models around Europe and the world; just pick the one you like off the shelf and implement it. It really is this simple; there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

You may well be right, to be honest I don't have your knowledge. But if the nurses and other staff suggested or backed 'the model' rather than politicians, then the electorate might accept it rather than currently continuing to view the nhs as the sacred cows that cant be touched however much it is failing both staff and patients and of course the tax payer.