[Politics] The state of things

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well it describes itself as one of a series of working papers, is around 38 pages long and is cogently argued with supporting graphics and is fully referenced and much of it based on around two years research by three of the authors in their paper An Accountancy Model of the British Exchequer. Have you any more substantive criticism of their work, or just arguing from authority? Do you know of any peer reviewed studies to back up your views of the way government finances work? I’m fairly confident you won’t because as far as I know this is the first detailed analysis that has ever been made.

Authority. By proxy. As I said, if it ain't peer-reviewed it's . . . . nothing.

I don't have to offer up any peer-reviewed counter articles to bolster my point that a non peer reviewed 'article' has no authority.

 

[rogersix]

I don’t know what BBS is. The attributions to MMT in the Chicago survey questions didn’t actually relate to any actual tenets of MMT. They were just straw man questions. What specific elements of the UCL analysis do find fault with?

what do you do for money?

 

[Hugo Rune]

I don’t know what BBS is. The attributions to MMT in the Chicago survey questions didn’t actually relate to any actual tenets of MMT. They were just straw man questions. What specific elements of the UCL analysis do find fault with?

I’m not sure how useful it is. It’s rather like trying to equate quantum theory to the formation and behaviour of galaxies or clusters. You remind of people who say ‘time doesn’t really exist’, there may well be beautiful maths involved that support that hypothesis but how useful is it to know that or adjust any of your behaviours in accordance to that statement?

In terms of heterodox economic theories, my go to is thermoeconomics. There is something very satisfying and comforting about basing theory on the second law of thermodynamics, a law that I believe disproves block universe theory and supports free-will rather than determinism. Why don’t you read some (proper peer reviewed) papers thermoeconomics, you might warm to them?

 

[BenGarfield]

Authority. By proxy. As I said, if it ain't peer-reviewed it's . . . . nothing.

I don't have to offer up any peer-reviewed counter articles to bolster my point that a non peer reviewed 'article' has no authority.

No, of course no one has to offer anything on Northstandchat if they dont want to, but you and others have suggested that my contention that tax does not fund central government expenditure is false. I have cited evidence in a detailed study which supports my argument. No one has offered any detailed evidence for the contrary explanation for the way goverment spending works other than appealing to authority or ad hominem attacks of the "its bollocks" variety. It seems reasonable to ask for evidence in return. Im surprised that a left leaning person like yourself is not more open minded to alternative models of the UK exchequer, an understanding of which could help ameliorate the many economic and social problems this country faces.

 

[rogersix]

No, of course no one has to offer anything on Northstandchat if they dont want to, but you and others have suggested that my contention that tax does not fund central government expenditure is false. I have cited evidence in a detailed study which supports my argument. No one has offered any detailed evidence for the contrary explanation for the way goverment spending works other than appealing to authority or ad hominem attacks of the "its bollocks" variety. It seems reasonable to ask for evidence in return. Im surprised that a left leaning person like yourself is not more open minded to alternative models of the UK exchequer, an understanding of which could help ameliorate the many economic and social problems this country faces.

have you considered writing to liz truss, she is desperately in need of an economic guru?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

You remind of people who say ‘time doesn’t really exist’

I also find this, albeit in the sense that they make me think "I hope all this time I'm spending reading this absolute bollocks isn't being truly wasted".

 

[BenGarfield]

I’m not sure how useful it is. It’s rather like trying to equate quantum theory to the formation and behaviour of galaxies or clusters. You remind of people who say ‘time doesn’t really exist’, there may well be beautiful maths involved that support that hypothesis but how useful is it to know that or adjust any of your behaviours in accordance to that statement?

In terms of heterodox economic theories, my go to is thermoeconomics. There is something very satisfying and comforting about basing theory on the second law of thermodynamics, a law that I believe disproves block universe theory and supports free-will rather than determinism. Why don’t you read some (proper peer reviewed) papers thermoeconomics, you might warm to them?

Could you be a little more specific where you think the study is not useful? For example, I assume that you hold the conventional, three source view of public spending - namely from either tax, public debt, or money creation, which is viewed an inflationary alternative to the other sources. The study found that this theory does not accord with the institutional reality in the UK with particular reference to the operation of the Consolidated Fund which holds two accounts at the Bank of England, one for revenue and one for expenditure. The authors found no direct link between these two accounts, and that spending arises as new money advanced as credit and not from taxation. Do you not find detail such as this explanation useful - or maybe you disagree and know more about the workings of treasury accounts than do the authors. In which case I`m sure theyd appreciate your input?

 

[rogersix]

Could you be a little more specific where you think the study is not useful? For example, I assume that you hold the conventional, three source view of public spending - namely from either tax, public debt, or money creation, which is viewed an inflationary alternative to the other sources. The study found that this theory does not accord with the institutional reality in the UK with particular reference to the operation of the Consolidated Fund which holds two accounts at the Bank of England, one for revenue and one for expenditure. The authors found no direct link between these two accounts, and that spending arises as new money advanced as credit and not from taxation. Do you not find detail such as this explanation useful - or maybe you disagree and know more about the workings of treasury accounts than do the authors. In which case I`m sure theyd appreciate your input?

tell donald trump, he likes an nft ponzi scheme

 

[Eric the meek]

tell donald trump, he likes an nft ponzi scheme

Does anyone know where I can get hold of a Fiat Ponzi? It sounds an amazing motor. I've got the cash waiting in my pension, or if Ben Garfield prefers, I can stick it on the credit card.

 

[rogersix]

Does anyone know where I can get hold of a Fiat Ponzi? It sounds an amazing motor. I've got the cash waiting in my pension, or if Ben Garfield prefers, I can stick it on the credit card.

oh, you won't need to pay him, he makes his own money!

 

[chickens]

Does anyone know where I can get hold of a Fiat Ponzi? It sounds an amazing motor. I've got the cash waiting in my pension, or if Ben Garfield prefers, I can stick it on the credit card.

I’d give it a swerve tbh, it’s got a really weird seating arrangement where everybody sits above each other.

There’s only one seat at the top, then two in the row below, then four in the row below that….

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I didn't want to start another NHS thread.....

I had knee surgery 4 years ago and was told by the surgeon to give his secretary a call when it deteriorated because the next intervention would be knee replacement. Ironically I was teaching a few miles from where I had my surgery the other day and the knee 'went'. This time lots of pain and I couldn't put weight on it. Somehow I got home. The next day I was able to walk half way to the station and the knee went again. Mrs T had to pick me up in her car.

So I phoned Mr Surgeon's secretary. She understandably told me due to the passage of time I had to be referred by my GP surgery. (This isn't a post about the Starmer plan, by the way, which I think is nuts).

Only 4 years ago when I phoned the GP surgery I'd get an appointment the next day. A year ago it had extended to 3 weeks. I called today and by the time I got to the end of the call queue, I got a message saying 'sorry, please leave a message and we will try to get back to you'. WT actual F?

It's no wonder that confused members of the public reach for 999 or flock to A and E.

And incidentally when I schlepped up to London to teach on Monday and Tuesday, the trains were buggered. On one day, on my way to Victoria, sticky points at Swanley mean my train was diverted up around Dartford. Instead of being in the lab at 8.45 to prep for 10.00, I arrived at 9.20. Luckily I have good assistants, but the class still started late. Ironically on the other day I was headed for London Bridge and the train was diverted to Victoria. I was 25 minutes late for my first lecture (yes, a blessed relief for the students, I hear you say. but still...). The last time I was late for a lecture was in 1990.

I even got up early (5.45) for these trips, and yet even a 10.00 start was impossible on one of the days.

And nobody seems to bat an eyelid.

I don't want to retire but everything seems to be so shit now, I am beginning to wonder what's the ruddy point of it all.

 

[chickens]

I didn't want to start another NHS thread.....

I had knee surgery 4 years ago and was told by the surgeon to give his secretary a call when it deteriorated because the next intervention would be knee replacement. Ironically I was teaching a few miles from where I had my surgery the other day and the knee 'went'. This time lots of pain and I couldn't put weight on it. Somehow I got home. The next day I was able to walk half way to the station and the knee went again. Mrs T had to pick me up in her car.

So I phoned Mr Surgeon's secretary. She understandably told me due to the passage of time I had to be referred by my GP surgery. (This isn't a post about the Starmer plan, by the way, which I think is nuts).

Only 4 years ago when I phoned the GP surgery I'd get an appointment the next day. A year ago it had extended to 3 weeks. I called today and by the time I got to the end of the call queue, I got a message saying 'sorry, please leave a message and we will try to get back to you'. WT actual F?

It's no wonder that confused members of the public reach for 999 or flock to A and E.

And incidentally when I schlepped up to London to teach on Monday and Tuesday, the trains were buggered. On one day, on my way to Victoria, sticky points at Swanley mean my train was diverted up around Dartford. Instead of being in the lab at 8.45 to prep for 10.00, I arrived at 9.20. Luckily I have good assistants, but the class still started late. Ironically on the other day I was headed for London Bridge and the train was diverted to Victoria. I was 25 minutes late for my first lecture (yes, a blessed relief for the students, I hear you say. but still...). The last time I was late for a lecture was in 1990.

I even got up early (5.45) for these trips, and yet even a 10.00 start was impossible on one of the days.

And nobody seems to bat an eyelid.

I don't want to retire but everything seems to be so shit now, I am beginning to wonder what's the ruddy point of it all.

It does feel to me that the whole country is run down in every way imaginable. I’m not sure we have many Conservative apologists left here at NSC, but I can’t find a single thing that’s improved since Gordon Brown left office, which is a fairly shocking inditement of a party that has held power and had carte blanche to enact their own policies for more than 12 years.

 

[jcdenton08]

Crime is out of control, especially in London, the NHS is on its knees. it’s a f***ing shit show out there.

 

[danielson81]

I walked past library on way to tube at 7.55am.... people queuing to get in, blatantly to warm up. What a state this country is in.

 

[Horses Arse]

I feel like I'm about to add a sort of cliche, 6th Form politics style contribution, but reading the OP it didn't seem to factor in the position that some people have with tax where it is about how it is spent. Using the NHS as an example, there are those that believe too much money is being spent on consultants and office people, rather than being spent on the service.

Perhaps this is factoring somehow - people not eager to pay more tax because of how it's spent (or how they perceive it is spent) and how the extra would be wasted. Or perhaps used as an example of how bad the government is at running things etc.

There are huge inefficiencies in the public sector. Incredible amouts of money is wasted that simply wouldn't be accepted in the private sector. The irony is that it is the private sector that is making huge profits out of the public sector, it is exploited widely. Our taxes are funding the private company wealth.

I'm involved in significant projects where private companies are flooding the place with expensive resources that enable more and more fee to be earnt by them with progress being non existant. It is allowed to fester becuase those low salaried public sector staff are well versed in staying clear of the problem by making sure you have someone between you and the problem - just don't ever publicise that there is a problem. If someone breaks rank and identifies the problem to the extent that it is outed then blame the private sector company between you and the problem. Then restart and go through the whole process again.

The answer is to have full time public sector staff who are paid based on their abilities and held to account. Ditch/drastically reduce the private sector and support and the money grabbing personal company contractors and run it efficiently. Decent salaries and opportunities and accountability will drive out the lazy uninsterested parasites within the public sector and purge the greedy thieving pivate sector scum that drink the state tit dry.

Easier said that done of course after decades of public sector folk being impossible to shift and private companies exploiting the state.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I was chatting to my Opticians, the other day, a lovely couple that have a business in our village. Both their kids are training to be doctors, one currently in A&E and both are looking to move to Australia when qualified, which seems a popular choice for young doctors. I have no idea how the Australian health service operates, but maybe there is a lesson to be learnt by the NHS.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just listening to a radio 5 phone in - about the clown of a PM filming a video of himself in the back of a moving car with no seatbelt on. After the usual anti BBC nobs phoned in, demanding their license fee back, a serving police officer is currently defenestrating the oaf.

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

Agree H - another clown. I never liked what the Tory party stood for but at least there have been some intelligent Conservatives in the past - in the last ten years they seem to have been affected by some form of lunacy - Sunak is only less bad than the previous two PMs because they were so bad it would have been difficult to go much lower - a disastrous period for UK politics

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Just listening to a radio 5 phone in - about the clown of a PM filming a video of himself in the back of a moving car with no seatbelt on. After the usual anti BBC nobs phoned in, demanding their license fee back, a serving police officer is currently defenestrating the oaf.

I'm no fan of the bloke but that seems a tad harsh. Not to mention painful