[Politics] The state of things

[beorhthelm]

Has @Your Mum been going since the 90s??

heard your mum's been going for long before that.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sounds very similar to education here in Australia. Meetings involving rooms full of experienced, qualified and skilled educators who won't push back because they will be ostracised and labelled trouble makers. Decisions are made by leadership who are all picked because they agree with the philosophy and ideas of the boss. The worst kind of echo chamber. Then comes the micro-managing

And now those who encouraged and put in place this topdown system are sitting around tables asking why there is a teacher shortage.

Twats

We have been forced (by fellow 'senior' academics who now no longer do much other than sit on management committees) to use blind double marking of project work, and use two totally independent academics to do the marking. So I run a complex final year project on, skin disease because it is my area of expertise (it isn't I work in another area, this is merely an illustration) and they give the work to mark to an expert on the heart and an expert on Parkinsons disease, who are forbidden to speak to me about what I expected from the student. "Don't really understand this but it seems OK: 65%". But this is seen as 'fairer' than having me first mark and a colleague check that it seems like fair marking. Total bollocks. I expect delays (the two markers are supposed to independently come up with marks in the same grade band) and complaints from students. I have been told that if I mark my student then I will be unduly lenient. Or unduly harsh. So how does having me mark another project about which I know nothing eliminate my biases? I use this as an example of how management in this country is f***ing useless. Except I'm told that, like sheep, universities the world over are doing this. Time I packed it in (and worked as an HE consultant, maybe).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I just had to google that - had no idea ‘Your Mom’ was even a thing! But yes, apparently…

your mom Meaning & Origin | Slang by Dictionary.com

Your mom is a phrase that’s typically followed by a statement poking fun at someone’s mom.

www.dictionary.com

Edit - doubly confused - no idea ‘Your Mum’ was the name of an NSC member either

I have a suspicion it is an NSC member who has been given a license to run several spoof accounts. Hilariously he posted as himself a couple of years ago from the wrong account. Some people thought for a moment that a well known NSC jackass had just obtained the benefit of a hot blast of 'shock treatment'. . .

 

[BadFish]

Johnathan Pie once again hits the nail on the head.

Is anyone still intending to vote for these scumbags?

We have been forced (by fellow 'senior' academics who now no longer do much other than sit on management committees) to use blind double marking of project work, and use two totally independent academics to do the marking. So I run a complex final year project on, skin disease because it is my area of expertise (it isn't I work in another area, this is merely an illustration) and they give the work to mark to an expert on the heart and an expert on Parkinsons disease, who are forbidden to speak to me about what I expected from the student. "Don't really understand this but it seems OK: 65%". But this is seen as 'fairer' than having me first mark and a colleague check that it seems like fair marking. Total bollocks. I expect delays (the two markers are supposed to independently come up with marks in the same grade band) and complaints from students. I have been told that if I mark my student then I will be unduly lenient. Or unduly harsh. So how does having me mark another project about which I know nothing eliminate my biases? I use this as an example of how management in this country is f***ing useless. Except I'm told that, like sheep, universities the world over are doing this. Time I packed it in (and worked as an HE consultant, maybe).

That is nuts Harry. I am not 100% sure on this but I believe that my essays have been marked by my lecturers this year. I would also add that as a paying student I would expect that my essays were written by someone highly qualified in the field that I am studying, in my case autism.

But I get what you are saying and the levels of bureaucracy I was faced with in a primary school setting were, to me at least, insane. Submitting 6/7 year olds to cold writing tests . . . "And write about Pandas . . . Go". After spending a semester teaching them to write about what they are interested in (because I am teaching them to write not about Pandas). Then being asked to ignore my many writing samples and just assess them on this piece of forced writing under pressure. Then sit for 2 hours with other teachers and read each others to discuss if they sit 6 months above, below or at level. Based on one stressful hour of writing.


My best example here is a kid who would not write at the beginning of the year, he had amazing story ideas though. I worked and worked with him to get him to write and share his ideas and by then end he could to a reasonable standard (not quite at level but close).

During the test he hid in his bag box, I literally lost him for 10 minutes until I saw his shoe poking out. Anyway I eventually used the writing samples I had and ignored the suggestion to try and get him to do it again. So I questioned why on earth we were putting kids through this testing when the writing samples could (and in my opinion, should) be used.

The problem is a similar essence to your example. Somebody somewhere is making decisions about education without the first clue of what is going on.

We know more about teaching than ever and somehow someone has managed to use that information to create the most boring, controlling and sterile environment for kids to learn . . . And be assessed, mustn't forget the being assessed because if I have seen Johnny add 2 digit numbers in the classroom (and recorded it in my notes) but not in the test. It doesn't count.

. . . And breathe.

So I heard from a mate that does some advising for the state minister that they and the top knobs from the department sat around in a meeting for hours to discuss the teacher shortage. I asked him if they invited him or any other teachers. Well you can guess the answer.

Twats.

P.s. I am leaving teaching but clearly I am still pissed off about the whole thing. I loved it but they have ruined it. For teachers and most importantly for the kids. Still I am sure the numbers will go where they need to.

 

[Albion my Albion]

I have been listening to Nicky Campbell this morning, with the phone-in on the nurses' strike. I am not sure we are close to a tipping point yet because it seems clear that most of us don't understand the big picture.

In the US nurses don't normally receive tips either.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I can remember hearing an MP at a (non-political) conference years ago saying “tax is our way of helping other people. I for one would be happy to pay a bit more tax. And there are plenty of other people around who could EASILY afford to take a much bigger tax hit than me.

But it is also down to how the government prioritises what it does with the money. I wouldn’t trust the current government to prioritise anything sensibly, whether it is about deciding and judging that there are certain groups of people who don’t deserve help, or whether it is about not sorting out the Health Service/Social Care problem, which Jeremy Hunt was vociferous about when he was out of favour, but now…….

 

[The Clamp]

Avanti West Coast rewarded with over £4m in taxpayer-funded bonuses​

"Avanti West Coast was handed millions of pounds of taxpayer-funded bonuses for a period in which it was Britain’s worst train operator for delays, according to Labour party analysis.

The analysis, which used Department for Transport (DfT) figures published on Thursday, found the company was awarded the highest possible rating for “operational performance” and “customer satisfaction” between 1 April and 18 September last year. Those ratings contributed to a bonus payout of £4.1m.


But figures from the Office of Rail and Road (ORR), the government department that regulates Britain’s railways, showed that between April and June that year just 60.1% of stops by Avanti West Coast trains were within a minute of the scheduled time – the worst figure for all operators.

The shadow transport secretary, Louise Haigh, called the bonus payments a “scandalous waste of taxpayers’ money” and a “symptom of a broken rail system”.

“Ministers have rewarded abject failure, handing over millions of pounds in performance bonuses and fees to this failing operator,” she said."

Which was nice.

Avanti West Coast rewarded with over £4m in taxpayer-funded bonuses

Payout awarded for period in which Avanti was UK’s worst train operator for delays, Labour analysis found

www.theguardian.com

 

[BenGarfield]

I can remember hearing an MP at a (non-political) conference years ago saying “tax is our way of helping other people. I for one would be happy to pay a bit more tax. And there are plenty of other people around who could EASILY afford to take a much bigger tax hit than me.

But it is also down to how the government prioritises what it does with the money. I wouldn’t trust the current government to prioritise anything sensibly, whether it is about deciding and judging that there are certain groups of people who don’t deserve help, or whether it is about not sorting out the Health Service/Social Care problem, which Jeremy Hunt was vociferous about when he was out of favour, but now…….

So as not to disappoint Guiness Boy et al., can I point out that taxes paid to the UK exchequer (not local taxes) , don`t fund central government spending. They perform other functions within the UK economy. New money is created whenever the government spends. Tax receipts are destroyed. If you dont believe me, can I refer you to a paper published by University College London entitled "The Self Financing State".
Here is the link:- https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/publ...issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

If you can find fault with the UCL analysis I and the UCL team would be delighted to hear from you, so that they can correct their paper.

 

[Stat Brother]

The state of this.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

So as not to disappoint Guiness Boy et al., can I point out that taxes paid to the UK exchequer (not local taxes) , don`t fund central government spending. They perform other functions within the UK economy. New money is created whenever the government spends. Tax receipts are destroyed. If you dont believe me, can I refer you to a paper published by University College London entitled "The Self Financing State".
Here is the link:- https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/publ...issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

If you can find fault with the UCL analysis I and the UCL team would be delighted to hear from you, so that they can correct their paper.

Well I’m very happy to know it matters not a jot how much tax I pay!

but, joking aside, i am not an economist, but the main point of what I was saying was that it is about the priorities and prejudices of the party in power rather. Wherever the money the government spends comes from, it what they spend it on that matters. If anything this theory shows the current government in an even worse light.

 

[Hugo Rune]

So as not to disappoint Guiness Boy et al., can I point out that taxes paid to the UK exchequer (not local taxes) , don`t fund central government spending. They perform other functions within the UK economy. New money is created whenever the government spends. Tax receipts are destroyed. If you dont believe me, can I refer you to a paper published by University College London entitled "The Self Financing State".
Here is the link:- https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/publ...issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

If you can find fault with the UCL analysis I and the UCL team would be delighted to hear from you, so that they can correct their paper.

Will you finally PISS OFF with your MMT bollocks!

You may have found some UCL analysis from some second rate (and likely Marxist) academics but the vast majority of this forum agree with the 2019 survey of leading economists by the University of Chicago Booth's Initiative on Global Markets that showed a unanimous rejection of assertions attributed by the survey to Modern Monetary Theory.

What we do know is that there is huge support for MMT on BBS. Perhaps you are playing to the wrong audience?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Will you finally PISS OFF with your MMT bollocks!

You may have found some UCL analysis from some second rate (and likely Marxist) academics but the vast majority of this forum agree with the 2019 survey of leading economists by the University of Chicago Booth's Initiative on Global Markets that showed a unanimous rejection of assertions attributed by the survey to Modern Monetary Theory.

What we do know is that there is huge support for MMT on BBS. Perhaps you are playing to the wrong audience?

The UCL 'research' is a sort of blog. It is not a peer-reviewed publication. It has as much authority as "what I did on my holidays" has to international travel.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So as not to disappoint Guiness Boy et al., can I point out that taxes paid to the UK exchequer (not local taxes) , don`t fund central government spending. They perform other functions within the UK economy. New money is created whenever the government spends. Tax receipts are destroyed. If you dont believe me, can I refer you to a paper published by University College London entitled "The Self Financing State".
Here is the link:- https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/publ...issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

If you can find fault with the UCL analysis I and the UCL team would be delighted to hear from you, so that they can correct their paper.

It isn't a paper. It is not a peer-reviewed publication.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is anyone still intending to vote for these scumbags?

That is nuts Harry. I am not 100% sure on this but I believe that my essays have been marked by my lecturers this year. I would also add that as a paying student I would expect that my essays were written by someone highly qualified in the field that I am studying, in my case autism.

But I get what you are saying and the levels of bureaucracy I was faced with in a primary school setting were, to me at least, insane. Submitting 6/7 year olds to cold writing tests . . . "And write about Pandas . . . Go". After spending a semester teaching them to write about what they are interested in (because I am teaching them to write not about Pandas). Then being asked to ignore my many writing samples and just assess them on this piece of forced writing under pressure. Then sit for 2 hours with other teachers and read each others to discuss if they sit 6 months above, below or at level. Based on one stressful hour of writing.


My best example here is a kid who would not write at the beginning of the year, he had amazing story ideas though. I worked and worked with him to get him to write and share his ideas and by then end he could to a reasonable standard (not quite at level but close).

During the test he hid in his bag box, I literally lost him for 10 minutes until I saw his shoe poking out. Anyway I eventually used the writing samples I had and ignored the suggestion to try and get him to do it again. So I questioned why on earth we were putting kids through this testing when the writing samples could (and in my opinion, should) be used.

The problem is a similar essence to your example. Somebody somewhere is making decisions about education without the first clue of what is going on.

We know more about teaching than ever and somehow someone has managed to use that information to create the most boring, controlling and sterile environment for kids to learn . . . And be assessed, mustn't forget the being assessed because if I have seen Johnny add 2 digit numbers in the classroom (and recorded it in my notes) but not in the test. It doesn't count.

. . . And breathe.

So I heard from a mate that does some advising for the state minister that they and the top knobs from the department sat around in a meeting for hours to discuss the teacher shortage. I asked him if they invited him or any other teachers. Well you can guess the answer.

Twats.

P.s. I am leaving teaching but clearly I am still pissed off about the whole thing. I loved it but they have ruined it. For teachers and most importantly for the kids. Still I am sure the numbers will go where they need to.

Indeed.

What has always pissed me off about my academic colleagues is most of them are sheep (I once described a colleague as someone who, if told one of her kids had to die, would conduct a brief survey to determine which - she ended up as my HoD), and some of them are psychopaths (getting on with their own research and spending a little time as possible doing 'regression to the mean' marking; another colleague of mine boasts he can mark an essay in 15 seconds by skim reading it).

So the shit rises to the top (or management). Just as he electorate always get the governments they deserve, large 'meritocratic' institutions like universities get the senior management they deserve.

We NEVER rebuke individuals for shoddy marking. Instead, in order to preclude student complaints we invent ever more elaborate systems of assessment, culminating in this absurd blind independent marking. This works well at much lower educational levels where all staff know all the curriculum, and is intended simply as an error check mechanism. At higher level it is proven to be inappropriate due to lack of expertize among the independent markers. I have explained this to various committees with the evidence but the response is 'nevertheless, we feel that it is fairer and more transparent to use blinded independent marking'. Twats, indeed.

You also remind me of an episode when I was 6. I got bored in class and started experimenting with 'wavy' writing. My parents were told I may have to go into the 'backward' class. Then I got a crush on the smartest girl in class and started to work hard to show off. Then through junior school I did the same - massive crush on a super bright girl, and so working hard had to be my thing (for reasons of logic that now escape me). Fast forward nearly 60 years and I find I'm on the Aspergers/autism spectrum, and the reason for my instinctive lack of engagement, disdain for other peoples' wormy routine, and half baked foolishness, dancing to the rhythm of my own drum all becomes clear. Had I not had a childish crush when very young I could easily have been dumped in the education dustbin, and ended up like wokeworrier .

 

[beorhthelm]

So as not to disappoint Guiness Boy et al., can I point out that taxes paid to the UK exchequer (not local taxes) , don`t fund central government spending. They perform other functions within the UK economy. New money is created whenever the government spends. Tax receipts are destroyed. If you dont believe me, can I refer you to a paper published by University College London entitled "The Self Financing State".
Here is the link:- https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/publ...issuance_operations_in_the_united_kingdom.pdf

If you can find fault with the UCL analysis I and the UCL team would be delighted to hear from you, so that they can correct their paper.

it again looks at the mechanics of government accountancy, in which im sure its correct. in doing so it creates a closed loop system then says its proof of a closed loop. then it waves away government debt as merely a place for people to save securely, ignoring the market evidence (remember reaction only couple months ago?). end of the day the entire world works on a different economic model for money, so i think thats probably correct and handful of fringe thinkers are not.

car analogy: its a bit like walk towards the back of a car and saying this is proof the car is reversing, when in fact its stationary, or could as easily be moving slowly forward. its all about perspective and frame of reference, if you want to ignore some data you have a fit for your hypothesis.

 

[Bodian]

You also remind me of an episode when I was 6. I got bored in class and started experimenting with 'wavy' writing. My parents were told I may have to go into the 'backward' class. Then I got a crush on the smartest girl in class and started to work hard to show off. Then through junior school I did the same - massive crush on a super bright girl, and so working hard had to be my thing (for reasons of logic that now escape me). Fast forward nearly 60 years and I find I'm on the Aspergers/autism spectrum, and the reason for my instinctive lack of engagement, disdain for other peoples' wormy routine, and half baked foolishness, dancing to the rhythm of my own drum all becomes clear. Had I not had a childish crush when very young I could easily have been dumped in the education dustbin, and ended up like wokeworrier .

And did your young crushes also have a large impact on your then developing music tastes as well? Mine did. And have stuck ever since.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And did your young crushes also have a large impact on your then developing music tastes as well? Mine did. And have stuck ever since.

No.

 

[BenGarfield]

Well I’m very happy to know it matters not a jot how much tax I pay!

but, joking aside, i am not an economist, but the main point of what I was saying was that it is about the priorities and prejudices of the party in power rather. Wherever the money the government spends comes from, it what they spend it on that matters. If anything this theory shows the current government in an even worse light.

Tax is still important but not as a source of government revenue. I agree with the rest of your comments

 

[BenGarfield]

It isn't a paper. It is not a peer-reviewed publication.

Well it describes itself as one of a series of working papers, is around 38 pages long and is cogently argued with supporting graphics and is fully referenced and much of it based on around two years research by three of the authors in their paper An Accountancy Model of the British Exchequer. Have you any more substantive criticism of their work, or just arguing from authority? Do you know of any peer reviewed studies to back up your views of the way government finances work? I’m fairly confident you won’t because as far as I know this is the first detailed analysis that has ever been made.

 

[BenGarfield]

Will you finally PISS OFF with your MMT bollocks!

You may have found some UCL analysis from some second rate (and likely Marxist) academics but the vast majority of this forum agree with the 2019 survey of leading economists by the University of Chicago Booth's Initiative on Global Markets that showed a unanimous rejection of assertions attributed by the survey to Modern Monetary Theory.

What we do know is that there is huge support for MMT on BBS. Perhaps you are playing to the wrong audience?

I don’t know what BBS is. The attributions to MMT in the Chicago survey questions didn’t actually relate to any actual tenets of MMT. They were just straw man questions. What specific elements of the UCL analysis do find fault with?