[News] The Southdown & Eridge Hunt's traditional boxing day meet has been stymied

[Wardy's twin]

Again, see my post above - the ‘threats’ were simply to carry on with the Meet regardless which is what they did - that was enough for the Charity event organisers being unable to meet their obligations to ensure public safety - it has nothing to do with threats of physically attacking people - the ‘threat’ was simply to disrupt the event..

agreed but what I was pointing out is that there is a lot of violence surrounding fox hunting in general and indeed one of the masked saboteurs alluded to that. There were some scuffles as well although I was not there to witness it.

 

[Zeberdi]

Of course it was a sham ffs. It's on page one of this thread, they booked a wheelbarrow race to disrupt the hunt.

Of all hills you could pick to die on regarding this subject, the wheelbarrow race isn't it!
(From someone who really couldn't give a shit either way about hunting/sabotaging hunts)

Seriously what are you talking about ffs? A ‘sham’ describes something that is fake/bogus - this was a real event - the motives for organising to clash with the time the Hunt traditionally meets may have been sham but the event itself and the fundraising efforts were not.

The event was advertised and booked with the Council and was planned to go ahead. The organisers spent weeks applying for licence/risk assessments and insurance. It wasn’t a ‘sham’ it was a real event and was going to raise money for the foodbanks. People had to register for the event.

Lewes Boxing Day Wheelbarrow Run

Find tickets & information for Lewes Boxing Day Wheelbarrow Run. happening at Lewes Crown Court, Lewes, EN on Tue Dec 26 2023 at 10:45 am. Register or Buy Tickets, Price information.

allevents.in

PS it is the pro-hunt people that are dying on a hill in this thread - or more specifically those that support trail hunting or don’t give a shit either way - not I, but whatever

 

[Billy the Fish]

Seriously what are you talking about ffs? A ‘sham’ describes something that is fake/bogus - this was a real event - the motives for organising to clash with the time the Hunt traditionally meets may have been sham but the event itself and the fundraising efforts were not.

The event was advertised and booked with the Council and was planned to go ahead. The organisers spent weeks applying for licence/risk assessments and insurance. It wasn’t a ‘sham’ it was a real event and was going to raise money for the foodbanks. People had to register for the event.

Lewes Boxing Day Wheelbarrow Run

Find tickets & information for Lewes Boxing Day Wheelbarrow Run. happening at Lewes Crown Court, Lewes, EN on Tue Dec 26 2023 at 10:45 am. Register or Buy Tickets, Price information.

allevents.in

PS it is the pro-hunt people that are dying on a hill in this thread - or more specifically those that support trail hunting or don’t give a shit either way - not I, but I’ll butt out for a while

It's obvious to anyone with a braincell that it was just a vehicle to disrupt the hunt, if it was a real event that anyone gave two shits about they would've changed the venue or the date. I haven't got a problem with that, I just think you shouldn't get away scott-free with writing a load of nonsense!

 

[Zeberdi]

It's obvious to anyone with a braincell that it was just a vehicle to disrupt the hunt, if it was a real event that anyone gave two shits about they would've changed the venue or the date. I haven't got a problem with that, I just think you shouldn't get away scott-free with writing a load of nonsense!

Of course the event was set up to block the hunt - that was the whole point DUH - so of course they weren’t going to do the event elsewhere ffs. As they said: "Our enterprising co-ordinator in Lewes has found a novel way of stopping the South Downs and Eridge Hunt from holding their hunt parade on Boxing Day.

"She has booked the road herself and is arranging a wheelbarrow race to collect for the food bank."

Hunt saboteurs organise wheelbarrow race to force Boxing Day hunt out of town

A Boxing Day hunt is at risk after campaigners organised a wheelbarrow race on the same day - meaning processions through the high street could be…

www.theargus.co.uk

BUT IT WAS A REAL FUNDRAISING EVENT THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN nonetheless - the event itself was not a sham, it was a genuine fundraising event for which tickets were being sold. I think you are being ridiculous talking about me ‘getting away scott free’ - for what ffs!? - The poster I was originally responding to before you started jumping all over me without reading the thread properly was trying to suggest the actual event itself was a sham (ie never existed/bogus/fake) and the organisers had no intention of ever running a real event at all. As I keep saying, the event itself was not a sham - it was a real event for which the organisers had submitted an application to the Council for weeks ago and who agreed that the Action Against Foxhunting could do a charity event between 11-12 Boxing Day instead of the Hunt meet having that slot - The Council accepted AAFH application for the use of the road and declined the Hunt’s. The Hunt then decided to go ahead with their meet and start an hour before the Wheelbarrow race and also threatened the organisers with disrupting the wheelbarrow race so they had to cancel it for public safety reasons. If you have proof of an alternative sequence of events I would be interested to hear it ?


From the Lewes District County Council Road Closures Applications Page on their website:

 

[Driver8]

Couldn’t they have combined the events and tipped anyone involved in hunting over Beachy Head in a wheelbarrow? That I would pay to see.

 

[beorhthelm]

Of course the event was set up to block the hunt - that was the whole point DUH - so of course they weren’t going to do the event elsewhere ffs.

BUT IT WAS A REAL FUNDRAISING EVENT THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN nonetheless - the event itself was not a sham, it was a genuine fundraising event for which tickets were being sold. I think you are being ridiculous talking about me ‘getting away scott free’ - for what ffs!? - Of course the motive for organising the event on that day was to block the hunt but it doesn’t make the event itself any less real. The poster I was originally responding to before you started jumping all over me without reading the thread properly was trying to suggest the actual event itself was a sham (ie didn’t exist/bogus/fake) and the organisers had no intention of ever running a real event at all. As I keep saying, the event itself was not a sham - it was a real event for which the organisers had submitted an application to the Council for weeks ago and who agreed that the Action Against Foxhunting could do a charity event between 11-12 Boxing Day instead of the Hunt meet having that slot - the Hunt then decided to go ahead with their meet even though the road closure slot had been allocated to the AAFH and threatened the organisers with disrupting the wheelbarrow race so they had to cancel it for public safety reasons. If you have proof of an alternative sequence of events I would be interested to hear it ?

From the Lewes District County Council Road Closures Applications Page on their website:

View attachment 171809

did you notice the declined extension for AAFH, 9:30 to 11? i wonder why they wanted that

there were no tickets, no fundraising, as per your link couple of post back, they only wanted people to bring a contribution. because they haven't any organisation for anything more. a few hours ago you thought there were two races, thought was a real tradition, taken in by some dubious press. the charity angle is just tacked on as a fig leaf, probably ticks a box for approval, and pretty cynical (why not aid a real animal charity? ah I've already answered that though)

 

[Zeberdi]

did you notice the declined extension for AAFH, 9:30 to 11? i wonder why they wanted that

there were no tickets, no fundraising, as per your link couple of post back, they only wanted people to bring a contribution. because they havent any organisation for anything more. a few hours ago you thought there were two races, thought was a real tradition, taken in by some dubious press. daft to keep doubling down.

You think attacking me or trying to discredit me personally is the way to justify supporting trail hunting and killing foxes?

The Sussex News reported it as ‘the traditional Boxing Day Wheelbarrow Run’

Boxing Day Hunt Threats End Lewes Charity Wheelbarrow Run

Sussex News . Stay informed with the latest breaking news and travel updates in Sussex.

sussex.news

If that is incorrect then fair enough - usually Sussex News is reasonably accurate so feel free to contact them with a correction to their story - it honestly isn’t really relevant

As for foxes being killed still - The evidence is there on film. I honestly don’t know what the argument is frankly. Nitpicking posts is a deliberate effort to derail the arguments that trial hunting has not ended foxes being torn apart by dogs and anyone who thinks it has, is frankly clueless.

I was a hunt saboteur for nearly 10 years - you think I don’t know what goes on and haven’t faced all the lying cvnts who have tried a million ways to justify their barbaric behaviour or haven’t faced physical attacks on us sabs personally because they don’t have a fcuking leg to stand on when it comes to animal cruelty.

 

[Horses Arse]

Apart from the 5,000 -7,000 foxhounds put down per annum because they don't have the 'hunting instinct as pups' or are 'too old to keep up with the pack', the tens of thousands of foxes still 'accidentally killed', the horses being whipped across the fields to make them run and jump and the young cubs dug out by terrier men to train young foxhounds.

Apart from them, you mean. Certainly no more cruel than hare coursing, badger baiting or dog fighting

Put down is a pleasant term. Shot in the head and fed to the remaining pack that aren't too injured in the hunt always used to be the norm. There were always hounds with ripped up legs limping home, never to be seen again.

Cats, other dogs, wildlife generally traumatised or killed during the hunt. Locals bullied into allowing their land to be used and abused. Countryside vandals was the term used for good reason. Hateful people within and supporting the hunt.

Horrendous violence by the hunt, ignored by the police, led to hunt Sab groups responding in kind. Last hunt sab I went to had both sabs and supporters tooled up. Violence leads to more violence and the hunt has always been purely about violence. Horrible people participating and supporting it. Proper low life.

 

[Justice]

The commoners out to see the aristocracy prance about on horses what a bunch of mugs.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Warning- Don’t watch the video if easily upset by animal cruelty.

You must be mistaken, hunts don't hunt foxes anymore and terriermen don't dig out fox dens anymore (and certainly not in front of young children). I've been told on this very thread that it doesn't happen

Although the people who say this and support the hunts aren't sick f***ers, just 'traditionalists'

 

[pb21]

Warning- Don’t watch the video if easily upset by animal cruelty.

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Justice]

I think you’re intelligent - so point proven there.

He’s a plumber

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Lets be honest,.as the many posts here demonstrate, the main thrust of the anti fox hunt (whether after foxes or following a trail) brigade is class based. If the antis really cared bout the fox then they would be campaigning against shooting and snaring of foxes which is a truly horrible and slow way of killing a fox. I have never and will never go on a hunt but the hypocrisy and bullsh*t needs calling out.

There’s no “hypocrisy and bullsh*t” which needs calling out at all. People can pick and choose causes to campaign against, or for. It might be for personal reasons and/or might be limited by the amount of time they can give or money they can provide. I support a few specific charities and you might argue why these and not others; I decide this.

What does need to be called out is people sniping at, and criticizing others, who are putting time and effort into something they believe in. By all means challenge their beliefs, calling them hypocrites is lazy.

 

[BN9 BHA]

He’s a plumber

 

[abc]

There’s no “hypocrisy and bullsh*t” which needs calling out at all. People can pick and choose causes to campaign against, or for. It might be for personal reasons and/or might be limited by the amount of time they can give or money they can provide. I support a few specific charities and you might argue why these and not others; I decide this.

What does need to be called out is people sniping at, and criticizing others, who are putting time and effort into something they believe in. By all means challenge their beliefs, calling them hypocrites is lazy.

The hypocrisy I refer to is by those that clearly have more issue with their belief that hunting is carried out by 'toffs' than the killing of the fox. Hunting threads on NSC have plenty of examples of this whilst, of course, for the majority is about the fox. If I have used the wrong words, then my apologies to all concerned.

However, what I find very frustrating is that most of the focus is anti hunt rather than looking at the bigger picture of where the fox fits in to our human created 'natural world'.

I do not support fox hunting and having had contact with farming and rural issues all my life, I can say with confidence that many farmers oppose it too and primarily because killing foxes is only necessary (and in my opinion only justified) in particular circumstances. Foxes are not a big killer of lambs and the best way of protecting the lambs is putting an alpaca in the field (electric fences have no impact at all). Furthermore, the hunts (out of control hounds, horses etc) can do an enormous amount of damage to farmland and sometimes farm animals.

The only (IMHO) justification for culling is when their numbers get too large (they no longer have a natural predator due to humans) and their natural behaviour threatens many other species - especially ground nesting birds - when their population hits a tipping point. I believe we then have a responsibility to nature generally to reduce fox populations, but only by the most limited way possible. Moreover, this should be in the most humane way possible (and of course it should not be a 'sport').

Snaring can cause a very slow, painful death for the fox. Shooting is the most humane way but the fox is a large, strong animal and I have seen too many instances of foxes being wounded and thus most likely suffered a slow death in a ditch somewhere.

So I believe the killing of foxes should only be permitted, by law, to those with a specific licence to do with the appropriate firearm and experience to ensure an instant death. Hunting, snaring, and 'anyone can have a go' shooting should all be banned.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The hypocrisy I refer to is by those that clearly have more issue with their belief that hunting is carried out by 'toffs' than the killing of the fox. Hunting threads on NSC have plenty of examples of this whilst, of course, for the majority is about the fox. If I have used the wrong words, then my apologies to all concerned.

However, what I find very frustrating is that most of the focus is anti hunt rather than looking at the bigger picture of where the fox fits in to our human created 'natural world'.

I do not support fox hunting and having had contact with farming and rural issues all my life, I can say with confidence that many farmers oppose it too and primarily because killing foxes is only necessary (and in my opinion only justified) in particular circumstances. Foxes are not a big killer of lambs and the best way of protecting the lambs is putting an alpaca in the field (electric fences have no impact at all). Furthermore, the hunts (out of control hounds, horses etc) can do an enormous amount of damage to farmland and sometimes farm animals.

The only (IMHO) justification for culling is when their numbers get too large (they no longer have a natural predator due to humans) and their natural behaviour threatens many other species - especially ground nesting birds - when their population hits a tipping point. I believe we then have a responsibility to nature generally to reduce fox populations, but only by the most limited way possible. Moreover, this should be in the most humane way possible (and of course it should not be a 'sport').

Snaring can cause a very slow, painful death for the fox. Shooting is the most humane way but the fox is a large, strong animal and I have seen too many instances of foxes being wounded and thus most likely suffered a slow death in a ditch somewhere.

So I believe the killing of foxes should only be permitted, by law, to those with a specific licence to do with the appropriate firearm and experience to ensure an instant death. Hunting, snaring, and 'anyone can have a go' shooting should all be banned.

Thanks for this well put response. I get where you’re coming from and agree that if it’s needed then use licensed peopl.

 

[MJsGhost]

Lets be honest,.as the many posts here demonstrate, the main thrust of the anti fox hunt (whether after foxes or following a trail) brigade is class based. If the antis really cared bout the fox then they would be campaigning against shooting and snaring of foxes which is a truly horrible and slow way of killing a fox. I have never and will never go on a hunt but the hypocrisy and bullsh*t needs calling out.

Wouldn't you agree that it's an awful lot harder to arrange a protest against the people going out shooting and snaring foxes (on their own presumably) than it is for an organised, publicised hunt, with all the pomp and ceremony?

 

[Guinness Boy]

The hypocrisy I refer to is by those that clearly have more issue with their belief that hunting is carried out by 'toffs' than the killing of the fox. Hunting threads on NSC have plenty of examples of this whilst, of course, for the majority is about the fox. If I have used the wrong words, then my apologies to all concerned.

However, what I find very frustrating is that most of the focus is anti hunt rather than looking at the bigger picture of where the fox fits in to our human created 'natural world'.

I do not support fox hunting and having had contact with farming and rural issues all my life, I can say with confidence that many farmers oppose it too and primarily because killing foxes is only necessary (and in my opinion only justified) in particular circumstances. Foxes are not a big killer of lambs and the best way of protecting the lambs is putting an alpaca in the field (electric fences have no impact at all). Furthermore, the hunts (out of control hounds, horses etc) can do an enormous amount of damage to farmland and sometimes farm animals.

The only (IMHO) justification for culling is when their numbers get too large (they no longer have a natural predator due to humans) and their natural behaviour threatens many other species - especially ground nesting birds - when their population hits a tipping point. I believe we then have a responsibility to nature generally to reduce fox populations, but only by the most limited way possible. Moreover, this should be in the most humane way possible (and of course it should not be a 'sport').

Snaring can cause a very slow, painful death for the fox. Shooting is the most humane way but the fox is a large, strong animal and I have seen too many instances of foxes being wounded and thus most likely suffered a slow death in a ditch somewhere.

So I believe the killing of foxes should only be permitted, by law, to those with a specific licence to do with the appropriate firearm and experience to ensure an instant death. Hunting, snaring, and 'anyone can have a go' shooting should all be banned.

Some pastimes are inextricably linked with class for a good reason. Rugby Union is generally a middle / upper class sport because it’s prioritised at public school and because, historically, the players were amateurs who could support themselves.

Football was played on the streets in working class areas and, before the gazillions of pounds came into the game, players needed to be paid to play so that they could keep Debbie in steak and lager and lime. The semis they lived in were seen as a step up.

Of course there are exceptions (Ellis Genge is from a council estate, Patrick Banford is a posh boy) but they’re exceptions rather than rules.

To hunt you need land, horses and hounds. This is simply out of the reach of 90% of the population. And, to turn the conversation back to hunting, it IS banned. But, as we’ve seen from this thread, that doesn’t save foxes. Now, who might have connections to people in the law via a lodge or school

But you’re right to focus on the fox and great points about snaring and shooting. My counter point is that foxes would also be safe from hunting if the horses and the old tie connections didn’t exist.

 

[Zeberdi]

Lets be honest,.as the many posts here demonstrate, the main thrust of the anti fox hunt (whether after foxes or following a trail) brigade is class based. If the antis really cared bout the fox then they would be campaigning against shooting and snaring of foxes which is a truly horrible and slow way of killing a fox

This is a spurious claim - the legal shooting and legal snaring of foxes when done under licence (as it has to be by law) is a far more humane way of controlling foxes or any other species than allowing them to be chased and killed by a pack of dogs (for fun) - I live in an agricultural community (and have worked with local farmers on conservation matters ) so am familiar with the practices of snaring and shooting. The practice of using live traps with self-locking snap jaws or wires to trap animals are now illegal and have been for years. As I said, DEFRA are very clear on how animals are controlled now. In particular, modern snares capture the fox (painlessly) allowing for them to be dispatched humanely. Shooting is regarded as a humane method by DEFRA and is a lot quicker than a fox running through the Countryside chased by a pack of hounds for hours until it collapses in utter exhaustion and ripped to pieces while it is still alive. I’m not saying there are never incidences where foxes aren’t being snared by snap jaws that cause the ‘long slow horrible death’ you describe but this is not going on in the farming community and is outlawed. It is hard to protest against individual criminals who are breaking the law, no? It is easier to campaign against an industry or a Law (which is what the hunt sabbers do).

Anyone that tries to diminish the impact of the suffering of foxes when caught by dogs with whataboutery claims that shooting and modern traps cause the same level of suffering shows a lack of knowledge around the issues IMO. It is simply not true these methods are a ‘truly horrible way to kill a fox’ - if you see any incidence where that has happened, report it to the wildlife crime officer in your local police authority immediately.

DEFRAs guidelines are specifically to ensure animals are humanely caught and to avoid suffering

https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/680075/Snaring-Best-Practice-Booklet.pdf

Personally, from a scientific point of view, I disagree with agricultural culling of most types of animals, not on the grounds of cruelty necessarily but because there is evidence to suggest that with many species it doesn’t work and can actually make the problem worse as was suggested with badger culling. Nature abhors a vacuum and with territorial animals like foxes and badgers, as soon as you remove one local population another moves in. In the work I do, we are finding out that the best way to limit the impact of foxes is to have better barrier protection for the prey species we are concerned with.

Edit - if you want to talk about the inhumane use of rodenticides to kill mice and rats then you’d have a point: long slow painful death caused by internal haemorrhaging which can last days - not to mention risks to other animals in the food chain and risk to pets.

Or you can ignore again the points I made to counter your charges of hypocrisy - it’s up to you

 

[Zeberdi]

Snaring can cause a very slow, painful death for the fox.

Only if it is done illegally

Shooting is the most humane way but the fox is a large, strong animal and I have seen too many instances of foxes being wounded and thus most likely suffered a slow death in a ditch somewhere.

You said earlier it wasn’t - foxes are trapped first then shot under DEFRA guidelines - but all hunting shooting - ie pheasant, deer, geese, ducks can all result in non-fatal injuries and animals dying in a ditch days later - that is why I am against game sports - culling of foxes by farmers uses non-lethal trapping and is tightly controlled

So I believe the killing of foxes should only be permitted, by law, to those with a specific licence to do with the appropriate firearm and experience to ensure an instant death.

It is. It is illegal to kill a fox without a DEFRA licence and DEFRA specifies the appropriate firearms

Hunting, snaring, and 'anyone can have a go' shooting should all be banned.

- SNARING = is illegal and banned unless done with appropriate licences and firearms and using non-self-locking snares (ie ones that don’t tighten when the animal struggles or the snap-jaw traps (only snares that restrain an animal without causing injury are legal) - if you witness otherwise, call the Wildlife police. Hunting and game shooting are considered sports in this Country and are strictly controlled but as we can see, people circumvent the law - many people would like to see hunting, fishing and shooting for sport banned altogether (including myself) and many protest against them in various ways. I would like to see grouse hunting banned as those that manage grouse moors also engage in the illegal practice of poisoning of birds of prey severely impacting species like Hen Harriers already under threat from extinction in this Country. I would like to see the millions of birds shot over Malta during migration periods (including our own large birds of prey) come to an end and until then, Malta be boycotted as a holiday destination. I would like to see anyone who causes abuse to any animal, wild or otherwise, have the same done to them but until detection, prosecution and conviction is better financed and taken more seriously by the courts in this country, the illegal acts that cause the suffering of any animal will continue