[Albion] The Ridiculous Tedious Striker Situation

[Bodian]

No need for a striker. 20 OG will do it.

 

[Acker79]

??

Explain

TL;DR = Too long; didn't read

 

[maltaseagull]

Yet again a pathetic showing scoring just 3 goals that shows a desperate need to spend huge amounts on a striker.



Where are we in the table compared to Saints who have a "proper " striker?

 

[saafend_seagull]

We have a proper striker - he’s just crap in the league

 

[Reddleman]

Great performance, fantastic result. Doesn’t change my opinion that we need striker one bit. It’s not for games like this we need a different option; away from home where home team comes out and attacks us we look great. Home matches where teams sit with two banks of four and we cannot break them down I think we need a more physical option who gives us a different dynamic.

 

[nwgull]

I am less knowledgable than most people here I am sure, when it comes to the technical understanding of football (which is always a good basis in itself for for not voicing strong opinions on anything!). However, I have been and am interested in a particular aspect of the game which I think might be relevant to the ‘striker issue’ and doesn’t seem to have been touched on much if at all:

With all due respect, to the ‘we need a striker now’ proponents, I wonder if this position really embraces a sense of the Zeitgeist of how PL and continental European football has been quietly developing in the last 20 years in relation to the traditional out and out striker? I think perhaps not. Football has slowly been moving away from the classic 4-4-2 for years where there is reliance on no 9s. This traditional striker role started undergoing a tactical transformation as far back as 2006 when Speletti, used Totti in a central position at Roma, dropping him back into space between the midfield and defence, to draw out the CB. The idea being to create goal scoring opportunities for his wide attacking midfielders to get behind the defence. Years later, when Pep moved Messi into a central position in a 4-3-3 formation, in what had become known as a ‘False 9’, he built on Roma’s approach with Totti, as part of a very successful possession based goal scoring system. Klopp’s use of Firmino as a pivot rather than the goal scorer at Liverpool, created opportunities for Salah and Mane to get behind the defence and allowed the fullbacks in turn to press higher up the field. Is it the fact that Liverpool’s most prolific goal scorer is a winger down to Salah’s individual talent or is it because Klopp’s system of possession based, counter-attacking football, has produced a very efficient goal scoring system that has almost rejected the need for a traditional one horse pony striker? While there’s no doubt of Salah’s talent, I think the latter.

These managers, by RdZ’s own admission, are his greatest inspirations and there is little doubt inspiration leads to emulation. When Lallana says ‘the need for a striker is a load of rubbish’ perhaps those not agreeing might take a rather more sophisticated look at the football we have been watching at Brighton, first developing under GP and being developed further under RDZ.

I wonder whether the ‘buy striker now’ fans really have a concept of how extraordinarily fortunate we are to have a manager on the cutting edge of the changing style of football?

Here would be an excellent place to start for a deeper understanding of who we actually have as a manager in Roberto de Zerbi and the tactical shape of the football that he is developing at Brighton;

https://spielverlagerung.com/2021/1...bi-an-early-analysis-of-his-shakhtar-donetsk/

I’m not saying that we won’t need an additional striker if we loose Welbeck because I think we will - and maybe if we don’t get the expected returns from Undev or Ensico and have lost Tross also, maybe we will - am just saying that ‘DeZerbi ball’ may not need one right now quite as much, or even at all, as some fans are insisting.

Even my Boxing Day shit didn’t last long enough to get me through this.

 

[nwgull]

Being more serious, this is what moneyball looks like. The baseball theory is that it’s cheaper to have a number players that simply get on base as opposed to a star batter that hits home runs. Converted to football, I’d guess it will be something along the lines of it being much cheaper to buy and pay players capable of creating more chances than it is to buy a single player that converts a greater proportion of fewer chances.

 

[zefarelly]

We do need a physical header type option, Ferguson could be it . . . . But we MUSt maintain balance

unlike tumble-Place
Sock boy @ Villa
Kane @ spuds etc

 

[Zeberdi]

TL;DR = Too long; didn't read

Thanks -

Not as long as the 12 pages the same old arguments that I had to read before making a post to this thread! One that I thought would help the ‘get a new striker’ vocalists in understanding why spending £xm on another no 9 is not needed - doesn’t matter if people can’t be bothered to read it - you can’t argue with ignorance though so trying to convince them that TB and the Club have this, and we’re good, is probably pointless.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I am less knowledgable than most people here I am sure, when it comes to the technical understanding of football (which is always a good basis in itself for for not voicing strong opinions on anything!). However, I have been and am interested in a particular aspect of the game which I think might be relevant to the ‘striker issue’ and doesn’t seem to have been touched on much if at all:

With all due respect, to the ‘we need a striker now’ proponents, I wonder if this position really embraces a sense of the Zeitgeist of how PL and continental European football has been quietly developing in the last 20 years in relation to the traditional out and out striker? I think perhaps not. Football has slowly been moving away from the classic 4-4-2 for years where there is reliance on no 9s. This traditional striker role started undergoing a tactical transformation as far back as 2006 when Speletti, used Totti in a central position at Roma, dropping him back into space between the midfield and defence, to draw out the CB. The idea being to create goal scoring opportunities for his wide attacking midfielders to get behind the defence. Years later, when Pep moved Messi into a central position in a 4-3-3 formation, in what had become known as a ‘False 9’, he built on Roma’s approach with Totti, as part of a very successful possession based goal scoring system. Klopp’s use of Firmino as a pivot rather than the goal scorer at Liverpool, created opportunities for Salah and Mane to get behind the defence and allowed the fullbacks in turn to press higher up the field. Is it the fact that Liverpool’s most prolific goal scorer is a winger down to Salah’s individual talent or is it because Klopp’s system of possession based, counter-attacking football, has produced a very efficient goal scoring system that has almost rejected the need for a traditional one horse pony striker? While there’s no doubt of Salah’s talent, I think the latter.

These managers, by RdZ’s own admission, are his greatest inspirations and there is little doubt inspiration leads to emulation. When Lallana says ‘the need for a striker is a load of rubbish’ perhaps those not agreeing might take a rather more sophisticated look at the football we have been watching at Brighton, first developing under GP and being developed further under RDZ.

I wonder whether the ‘buy striker now’ fans really have a concept of how extraordinarily fortunate we are to have a manager on the cutting edge of the changing style of football?

Here would be an excellent place to start for a deeper understanding of who we actually have as a manager in Roberto de Zerbi and the tactical shape of the football that he is developing at Brighton;

https://spielverlagerung.com/2021/1...bi-an-early-analysis-of-his-shakhtar-donetsk/

I’m not saying that we won’t need an additional striker if we loose Welbeck because I think we will - and maybe if we don’t get the expected returns from Undev or Ensico and have lost Tross also, maybe we will - am just saying that ‘DeZerbi ball’ may not need one right now quite as much, or even at all, as some fans are insisting.

I think you have some very reasonable points, but I think I may have a longer attention span than @Tom Hark Preston Park and @nwgull

However, what I do wonder is why you would be typing this all out instead of watching us play f***ing brilliant football

 

[Zeberdi]

I think you have some very reasonable points, but I think I may have a longer attention span than @Tom Hark Preston Park and @nwgull

However, what I do wonder is why you would be typing this all out instead of watching us play f***ing brilliant football

I didn’t type it out when the match was on, I wrote it late last night into my own notes when reading some deep background on DeZerbi’s work in Italy and the Ukraine. That’s just the nerd in me and helps interpret what I am watching on the field.

I had no intention of posting it at all but cut and pasted it into NSC today which took 30 seconds

Btw Agree brilliant football! - expect even better as the season progresses

 

[El Presidente]

Being more serious, this is what moneyball looks like. The baseball theory is that it’s cheaper to have a number players that simply get on base as opposed to a star batter that hits home runs. Converted to football, I’d guess it will be something along the lines of it being much cheaper to buy and pay players capable of creating more chances than it is to buy a single player that converts a greater proportion of fewer chances.

But…but…but…if we sign a £50m striker then I can divert from my societal inadequacies and tell people on social media that we are a ‘big‘ club* thus massaging my fragile ego. I‘m not actually interested in football, but live my life vicariously through it, so it’s essential that I am indulged by someone I have never met spending large eight figure sums of money.

 

[Swansman]

I think you have some very reasonable points, but I think I may have a longer attention span than @Tom Hark Preston Park and @nwgull

Five minute job

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Great performance, fantastic result. Doesn’t change my opinion that we need striker one bit. It’s not for games like this we need a different option; away from home where home team comes out and attacks us we look great. Home matches where teams sit with two banks of four and we cannot break them down I think we need a more physical option who gives us a different dynamic.

This is exactly where I am.

It's almost like there are two Brightons.

Team 1. The beautiful free flowing team we saw today and any time we come across an opposition stupid enough to come at us.

Team 2. The team we've seen countless times at home in the last couple of years where an opposition come and sit deep, tuck the full backs, win headers and make blocks

Team 2 need a striker. Team 1 are absolutely fine.

 

[Stat Brother]

Great performance, fantastic result. Doesn’t change my opinion that we need striker one bit. It’s not for games like this we need a different option; away from home where home team comes out and attacks us we look great. Home matches where teams sit with two banks of four and we cannot break them down I think we need a more physical option who gives us a different dynamic.

Yep.
Today not only did we play a false 9 (whatever that means) pretty much everyone down the middle was false.
Just because we played a County League side today, and were gifted 2 goals, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact there was still so much missing through the middle.

 

[Swansman]

Don't see us reaching that 4th place unless we buy Adam Armstrong and hoof it in his general direction

 

[Live by the sea]

Still think Sarmiento can play as an out and out striker if needed . We def don’t need to spend big on a striker as no guarantees and would ruin our wage structure .

The sum of the team is bigger than any individual part .

 

[warmleyseagull]

Acid test IMO is to compare actual GS against xG. Before todays game we were spot on (see https://footballxg.com/xg-league-tables/). Today’s xG was only .69 (og’s really help!) so we are ahead.

Overall, Albion are 3rd in xG/xGA league, the diffence in placing/points being negative against xGA, i.e. conceding 3/4 goals more than should have in 14 matches. In 20/21 GS against xG was -13 and even last season -8 so I would argue there is less of a need for striker now; perhaps more of a need to tighten defence a la Eddie Howe.

 

[Badger Boy]

The answer could be to play against below average goalkeepers and teams destined for relegation every game.

Didn't work against Charlton though.

 

[Swansman]

The answer could be to play against below average goalkeepers and teams destined for relegation every game.

Didn't work against Charlton though.

Sounds like a recipe for a Brightonian relegation battle