[Albion] The Ridiculous Tedious Striker Situation

[Bold Seagull]

Newcastle signed Joelinton at 23 and of athletic pedigree. We signed Undav at coming up 26 and far from athletic. Miles apart, and ridiculous comparison. Undav simply not good enough, technically & mentally.

Hence it was a reference to his transfer fee and salary, not a comparison of the players. If we paid £40m for Undav on a 6 year £27m contract - then perhaps we could compare like for like in terms of value. Try reading a bit more thoroughly next time.

 

[kevo]

Is Undav the answer to us qualifying for Europe and pushing for top 7 or 8? No.

Is Undav the answer to a prudently run business seeking to operate within it's means in a sustainable financial structure, with self imposed salary limits and transfer spend - yes he is, and he is likely similar to risks we'll have to continue to take at that end of the pitch.

I think that was the OP's point though - we have a realistic chance of qualifying for Europe and if we do want to achieve that aim, then, as you say, we need someone better than Undav.

 

[Silverhatch]

RDZ, even with limited English and a less than brilliant translator, appears to be pretty strident in his "I've told the club what I think we need" statements. This side has needed an experienced, 28 year old GM type finisher, ever since they let the actual GM go to Palace. This type of footballer will cost a fortune and the sell-on will not be an option. Still think Berardi has to be on RDZ's radar - even if he's recovering from injury.

 

[portlock seagull]

We hit our ceiling, when it comes to buying in proven PL strikers. Accept and move on as others said. We simply have to trust we’ll get lucky on a lower league / J league purchase some point. Rare though that is. Everyone’s chasing the same unicorn.

 

[Pevenseagull]

End(ish) of Last season' top goalscorer (not just strikers) as a reminder https://www.goal.com/en/lists/premi...14ccyj58lps0a1x2imkvdhxsfp#cse03cd3ed1ae09baf

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think that was the OP's point though - we have a realistic chance of qualifying for Europe and if we do want to achieve that aim, then, as you say, we need someone better than Undav.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but like @portlock seagull has just said, we pays our money and take our risk with the striking market we are in. If Undav doesn't work out, we will have to go again, but I'd assume it's going to be a similar risk factor on whether they can perform at the level we need or not.

We aren't going to start throwing 6 year £30m contracts at players.

 

[Tommy11]

Hence it was a reference to his transfer fee and salary, not a comparison of the players. If we paid £40m for Undav on a 6 year £27m contract - then perhaps we could compare like for like in terms of value. Try reading a bit more thoroughly next time.

Re-read again, And no still can’t see that you meant the above- especially saying how experts have written off Undav after 8 games sarcastically ….. seems like a comparison to me .

 

[Bold Seagull]

Re-read again, And no still can’t see that you meant the above- especially saying how experts have written off Undav after 8 games sarcastically ….. seems like a comparison to me .

Between judging a player after a certain amount of time, doesn't mean it's a direct comparison between the players - you are being very literal.

 

[Dibdab]

I dont even want the mythical "20 goal a season" striker. Just a player that half resembles a centre forward that can play when Welbeck is injured or off form that could get 10ish a season and cause centre backs a little bit of grief when a team is playing a low block against us.

 

[albionalex]

Strikers certainly don’t grow on trees, and finding one ‘ready’ is often expensive. The frustrating thing is the current approach isn’t cheap either. Brighton are trying to pluck a cheap striker who’ll grow into a quality striker at PL level. Trying to almost get lucky with a purchase that’ll appear good value when that player flourishes.

If we take the fees for Enciso, Undav, Andone, Locadia, Zeqiri and Sima we could well have got, say, just 1 Callum Wilson from Bournemouth instead and paid his wages. There is always an element of risk though. Singing just one ‘proven’ striker is no guarantee they’ll return consistently. Maupay for example looked to be good value at one stage, but now he’s lost form he does not. Strikers are also at risk to injuries like any other footballer, and can render the investment worthless.

It’s worth noting how other clubs have approached this. Many fans of rival teams will feel the same as us. West Ham have spent big on duds. Saints spent many years with the likes of Shane Long barely scoring. Fulham stuck with Mitro, who had several poor years at PL level. Leeds got lucky with Bamford, who had 1 PL goal from 27 games before his breakout season, and has been injured and out of form since.

I don’t think the Brighton approach is necessarily wrong. It spreads risk amongst many options and does find genuine bargains. We’ve seen it work for other positions and some of our cheap attackers look cranking value (Mitoma). Others will continue to develop too, I think Enciso and Sarmiento have the elements to become good players. Welbeck on a free, despite his drawbacks of injuries and prolificness, is also a quality player. But, Welbeck needs help to lessen his work load now. We can’t wait for youth players to develop when our senior striker roster is so limited now. It’s about time the approach is altered to mix developments to genuine options now.

Not that simple, as we have a wage structure. If we break it, then every player will ask for that going forward.

We in theory could afford to pay £40m for a striker. Just not the contract that comes with it.

 

[Shopes]

Beto, at Udinese, is the answer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beto_(footballer,_born_1998)

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

 

[Swansman]

Had a look at every PL clubs forum the day after deadline day and in 15 or 16 cases there was a "why no striker? why we never no striker boohoo?" threads.

Just like with Brighton, pretty much all of these teams sign a new striker or two annually.

People saying ‘where do these strikers come from’ simply need to look around teams at our level. Top end championship strikers can and will score 10-15 goals a season. We had it with Murray and to a slightly lesser extent Maupay. Look at last season tops scorers, when you remove the big hitters many of them came from championship level, Watkins, Pukki, Bowen, Ivan Toney.

So let’s go get Diaz or someone else at that level. I guarantee, 100% they will score more than the 0 league goals Welbeck and Undav have managed.

Yes, if you only mention the good examples then Championship is the magic solution to finding these 8-15 goal strikers.

Lets look at the 10 most expensive strikers to move from Championship to PL:
Excludes players who had previously played in the PL 20+ times (as they are already proven on PL level)
Ollie Watkins 86 PL games / 27 goals
Darren Bent 277 / 106
Oliver McBurnie 75 / 7
Adam Armstrong 37 / 3
Che Adams 110 / 24
Karlan Grant 34 / 5
Chris Wood 185 / 53
Neal Maupay 112 / 27
Benik Afobe 63 / 10
Matej Vydra 83 / 8
Dean Ashton 46 / 15

Then look at the 10 biggest central forward sales from Belgium to the PL:

Wesley Moraes 26 / 5
Aleksandar Mitrovic 116 / 33
Romelu Lukaku 278 / 121
Christian Benteke 280 / 86
Ally Samatta 14 / 1
Obbi Oulare 2 / 0
Deniz Undav 8 / 0
Tomasz Radzinski 194 / 35
Stefano Okaka 48 / 7
Emmanuel Dennis 42 / 11
Branko Strupar 36 / 15

Quite similar records... with the main difference being that these strikers from Belgium are usually about half or a third of the price.

 

[GT49er]

People saying ‘where do these strikers come from’ simply need to look around teams at our level. Top end championship strikers can and will score 10-15 goals a season. We had it with Murray and to a slightly lesser extent Maupay. Look at last season tops scorers, when you remove the big hitters many of them came from championship level, Watkins, Pukki, Bowen, Ivan Toney.

So let’s go get Diaz or someone else at that level. I guarantee, 100% they will score more than the 0 league goals Welbeck and Undav have managed.

Rather have Gyokeres.

 

[GT49er]

Newcastle signed Joelinton at 23 and of athletic pedigree. We signed Undav at coming up 26 and far from athletic. Miles apart, and ridiculous comparison. Undav simply not good enough, technically & mentally.

We didn't pay £40M either.

 

[macbeth]

yeah all this "we can't spend £70M in fees and £30M in wages" is ridiculous hyperbole. almost as bad as lallana saying a player of welbecks quality would cost £80M. just complete bollocks.

nobody, outside from a select few, is asking for that. since Hughton left we've had a player get into double figures once. ONCE. that will probably change this season, but having someone just to get around 12 goals would be more than enough. end of the day, we're doing more than well enough in the league, and the club are entitled to buy who they want, but if something's gonna hold us back, it's going to be that

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Yes.. I know it has been discussed now for many years, and yes ....im so bored about about the same discussion, but last night again is just proof that we need someone who can finish. It is getting absolutely ridiculous now.

Yes, I know the clubs stance on buying young and developing. Yes, I know about the "attacking false 9's" who can play in the position and FFS yes I know about how expensive a proven striker is - but the fact is, we we not going to move on as a PL club, sneak into Europe and possibly win a cup without strikers.

We have never replaced Glenn Murray, we have let go of Andone, Locadia, Maupay, Connolly, Zequri (loan) - yes, most of that list were crap - but we have replaced all of them with one striker - Undav - who I won't even waste another word discussing. Welbeck....injured again.

So what are we doing here? Im lost with it. If we go through another window without getting someone in then we are going to struggle. Plus, Trossard and Mac Allsiter look likely to be wanted and leave.

Before people start banging out about how lucky we are to be in the PL, and look where we came from - I know, I was there - standing out on Rainham End on a cold Tuesday night losing 0-1 to Barnet with 900 people. I get it. But while we are in the PL, I wouldn't mind making a go of it, possible getting into Europe ( how good would that be, traveling abroad with Albion fans) and maybe winning a league cup. Why not?

Our chairman is a gambler, but he is not taking enough risk or balls for me to push us on.

Watching Ferguson last night I saw plenty of occasions where he found space and could have been put in for a shot / 1 on 1 but the pass wasn’t made.

He looks to have the right instincts on where he should be, but needs to be used. I rather see him start at Saints if DW is still injured

 

[Pavilionaire]

The new factor at play is we are pulling in decent money from transfers. I accept that the Ben White, Burn, Bissouma and Cucurella monies helped plugged the Covid losses gap, but moving forward when the likes of Trossard and Caicedo inevitably leave we will be able to buy players without having to get Bloom to fund the difference.

Wages will always be a factor, although this can be mitigated if you can acquire a player for a low transfer fee if they are nearing the end of their contract.

 

[GT49er]

"Ridiculous Tedious"​

Yep, sure is ............................................

 

[Guinness Boy]

It’s been the eternal squad weakness. Costing us countless games.

But the club and Lallana feel very differently …. Lallana was uncharacteristically furious with those who say we should sign a reliable striker in a Radio Sussex interview after a win, I think it was Chelsea.

To paraphrase.
“Those who say that are talking rubbish. Those players don’t exist, at our budget”.

I'd pretty much guarantee that Lallana knows more about a) football and b) what our squad need than anyone on NSC.