Perhaps that is why Gus substituted him?
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The post-Barnsley Barnes-haters thread
- Thread starter Bozza
- Start date
Perhaps that is why Gus substituted him?
Not at all. Stats are inarguable data insofar as, those are factual numbers. But, as always with stats, it's about context and interpretation, and what is a fair context and interpretation. For instance, a direct comparison is unfair, because they played against tougher opponents than Barnes did. But as they play alongside better players and are themselves better players, proportional comparison can still be made.
My point, though, was that no striker scores more than they miss. Look at how many shots "some of the best in the world" took compared to how many they scored. To criticise a player for missing more shots than they score is like criticising a goalkeeper for not keeping a clean sheet in every single game he plays. No striker scores more than they miss because they are all human, playing a game that involves other players who attempt to block, divert, and save shots any shots that are taken.
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glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
at last you are beginning to understand
pity it had to be put into black and white you you to get it
Sam Ovett
The New Manager Bus
I've always been a massive fan of Ash! I remember getting insulted for sticking by Barnes in our League One campaign. He has always fit the system, done exactly what Gus has asked of him and scored goals! More than 1 in 3 is very good at a young age.
His defensive capabilities are often overlooked by people who expect him to have 100% pass completion, dribble success, shots on target to goal ratio etc.
Top boy
His defensive capabilities are often overlooked by people who expect him to have 100% pass completion, dribble success, shots on target to goal ratio etc.
Top boy
Mr Burns
New member
Thats makes about as much sense as most of your other posts
Mr Burns
New member
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
Mr Burns, I'm genuinely intrigued by your opinion of Barnes. You've made it clear that you aren't a fan but-as in the post above- are willing to say positive things about him. What I'd like to know is what your genuine opinion of him now is?
I've quoted below your original post in the infamous Barnes thread you started in January 2011. You are pretty strong in your criticisms in it, saying that he has no bottle, will find his level in the conference within a couple of years and that any of the other strikers we had on our books at the time would have scored at least as many as he had if given the same opportunities, even an ex pro like John Byrne ten years out of the game could have easily matched them.
What I'd like to know is, nearly two years on from that post, do you stand by those criticisms? If not, what is your view of him as a player now? I know you've made countless posts on Barnes and been involved in numerous debates on him but usually it's arguing specific points about a particular performance. Can you give your opinion on him as a whole, not focusing on one particular performance ether good or bad but the complete package?
Here's your original Jan 2011 post:
Before you say, oh another thread about Barnes, than don't read or post in it.
Before you quote stats, don't. Stick to the stat filled PC Manager games
But I thought earlier in the season that Barnes was not up to wearing the stripes, and after watching him numerous times, yesterdays performance at Bournemouth proved to me that he is out of his depth, and is never going to be the half decent striker we hope he will become, unless he toughens up and grows a pair of bollocks.
Strikers, like central defenders need to be able to take a whack and dish one out, otherwise they won't make it in 99% of cases. Look at Al Abd. He aint performing like he is because of his skill. He wins the battle with most strikers in the first ten minutes of a game. Barnes yesterday was a complete waste of space and was very lucky not to leave the ground in an Ambulance. Just compare him to Murray. Nearly every time Murray goes up for a header, he wins it. Even when he completely missed a flick on yesterday, the defenders marking him flicked it on for him. They are so worried about Murray they make mistakes. When Barnes goes up for a header, its half hearted, going through the motions. He hardly ever wins any, and all you see from him is a cowardly pulling in of the shoulder and ducking his head out of the way. Its the same with tackles, he dangles a leg, and never makes a hard challenge. He must be a center half's dream too play against. When the Bournemouth center half's saw the team yesterday, they must have been pissing themselves laughing. Instead of having Murray who was going to be a danger all afternoon, they had to put up with Barnes, who's only danger to them was going to be getting a headache from all his whining. Refs are never going to give Barnes a 50/50 decision, because they can see the way he plays. He always looking to get out of the way and go down before the balls near him. BE honest, how many of think of Barnes, and see a picture in your mind of him sitting on his arse, arms out by his side with a look of disbelief on his face because he didn't get a free kick?
He was so lucky yesterday when he was on the receiving end of that second half crunching tackle, that his leg wasn't snapped in two. The first thing you teach a player, is never pull out of a tackle, or never just dangle your leg at a tackle, as you are a lot more in danger of getting seriously injured, then if you tackle hard yourself. When he got hit, I honestly though he'd broke his leg, and if he carries on like that it wont belong before a career ending injury comes along.
The boy is just too lightweight for pro football, and all the time he has a hole in his arse he wont make it. He'll find his level in the conference within a couple of years. Unless of course he learns to toughen up, but in most cases you cannot teach someone bottle, you either have bottle or you don't. You can get away with being and playing like a tart in some positions, but not as a striker. I think his only hope to go and do a bit of UFC training and learn to overcome his weakness and tartness, and learn how to take a whack.
In addition to his weak challenging at headers and that near leg breaking tackle, did you notice that when he an Murray& Barnes broke yesterday and Murray squared it, Barnes went hiding behind the defender. Murray squared it, and Barnes was nowhere. If he had done as he was meant to do and get in front of the defender, he would have either got a shot and probably scored, or got fouled and got a penalty. Either way he'd have got a whack, so that probably why he went and hid behind the defender, where he was nice and safe. The only way we would have scored there was an own goal, or if the defender fluffed it. But, no he'll wait for the unchallenged chances too add to his goal tally.
Now before people quote his stats, I think any other striker at the club could match these or better his goal tally given the game time and position Barnes has had this season. I even think if you got an old pro like John Byrne, he'd have easily matched Barnes tally, even without playing or training for 10 years. What I'm saying is, even through Barnes is the second highest scorer, any striker given Barnes' chances would easily match it. As a team we have been creating so much, we could have doubled our goal tally with the right striker this season.
You've just gotta take a look at the amount of chances Barnes as missed, most of which, I think is down to his bottle. I haven't looked, but I bet a lot of Barnes goals have been from unchallenged shots. No doubt he can strike a good shot when given time, and if football was a non contact sport, he'd be one of the best, but its not, and he's not.
I still see Murray just as much as a provider than a scorer if not more the provider, and I think the way the game turned at Bournemouth when he come on yesterday proves it. He'll chase things down, get stuck it and create chances of others, and cause defences problems, whereas Barnes isn't gong to cause any defence problems. I bet if you went back to yesterdays game, Barnes took a whack and threats from a defender early on, and after that he was shit scared of getting involved, and until he can learn to toughen up a bit, his only hope is to become a winger or he will fade away, and if he doesn't learn to toughen up then I hope he fades away sooner rather than later, because without a player like Murray in the side, he is a waste of space, and if I was a player of Murrays ability, and got dropped for Ashley Barnes yesterday, I'd tell Gus where to stick his new contract.... (although obviously in a nice way because of Gus' god like status, I wouldn't be rude too him at it!!)
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
Thats makes about as much sense as most of your other posts
went over your head eh!
you are less intelligent than I thought then
Captain Sensible
Well-known member
Barnes was quality and CMS did exactly what he's supposed to, score. The first CMS goal was kind of lucky but the Barnes shot looked like it was going wide, also the Barnes diving header was going wide until CMS brilliantly back healed it it. The Barnes first goal was good fortune but you need to be in the right place and he was. The second Barnes goal was a superb finish.
I know you aren't a fan of CMS but to say the Barnes chances were going in before CMS diverted them in is bollocks.
When I saw them live I thought they were going in, have watched the football league show (and rewatched a couple of times) and goals on sunday, I still think they were both on target, but I don't know if either had the power to go in - that's not to take away from CMS, just that they were on target, imo.
Captain Sensible
Well-known member
The header was definately not going in. To get to CMS the header had to be heading wide. If it was on target it would have been cleared as there were bodies on the line. Thing we have to ask is, was the Barnes header actually ment as a pass to CMS? If it was, that's amazing play.
pork pie
New member
Ok, I will be fair to CMS.
The first goal simply hit him. I am sure he knew nothing about it.
The second was, in all fairness, exactly what we payed so much money for, his little digs in the box. It was a Barnes knock-down going wide. HOWEVER, before people get too carried away, it was against a makeshift Barsley side, and it did not involve any of the things people complain about him lacking. Having said that, I would settle for 20 tap-ins if we can get a target man to set them up for him.
No, it was a shot, he just caught it wrong and it spun off. Having watched it several times I'm convinced it was sneaking in by the post (well, would have been stopped, but was heading for the inside of the post).
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,776
I love the way that Barnes continues to prove the haters wrong, goal after goal, game after game, week after week, league after league
but we've been here before, maybe he'll also be accepted after his 300th game
but we've been here before, maybe he'll also be accepted after his 300th game
We got 100% Barnes for the whole game, he was up for it and delivered.
Fingers crossed he can give that level for now games than last season. Ftr, I'm no Barnes hater, i.like the rest of us have seen gore food he is and can be but have also seen so many poor first halves where we seem onky get 30% of him.
Ppl swear at me, call me names and tell me his defensive work is amazing.
He's a 20+ goals a season striker, i don't want him defending for the first 45. I want him to keep the ball when he's passed it up front, As well as produce the goods in the last 20 as usual.
The only disappointment was that we know he could do better not right he was a bad player.
But that was last year, we've had the whole summer to work on team work and get everyone on the same page, although Dixie seems a little behind.
I think Barnes is one of those players who needs a strong mind set, mental preparation, and plenty of positive reinforcement to keep his head in. And think he'd going to get everything he needs to excel this season.
And as long as he doesn't dive so obviously, he'll keep the fans' support ;-)
I reckon Barnes and CMS shud be able to manage at least 15 each if the team can keep that level of motivation, patience and discipline
Fingers crossed he can give that level for now games than last season. Ftr, I'm no Barnes hater, i.like the rest of us have seen gore food he is and can be but have also seen so many poor first halves where we seem onky get 30% of him.
Ppl swear at me, call me names and tell me his defensive work is amazing.
He's a 20+ goals a season striker, i don't want him defending for the first 45. I want him to keep the ball when he's passed it up front, As well as produce the goods in the last 20 as usual.
The only disappointment was that we know he could do better not right he was a bad player.
But that was last year, we've had the whole summer to work on team work and get everyone on the same page, although Dixie seems a little behind.
I think Barnes is one of those players who needs a strong mind set, mental preparation, and plenty of positive reinforcement to keep his head in. And think he'd going to get everything he needs to excel this season.
And as long as he doesn't dive so obviously, he'll keep the fans' support ;-)
I reckon Barnes and CMS shud be able to manage at least 15 each if the team can keep that level of motivation, patience and discipline
JCL666
absurdism
- Sep 23, 2011
- 2,190
Hooray! Some one who understands about data and the importance of contextual interpretation.
hampshirebrightonboy
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2011
- 1,026
I feel cheated Lineker is a hero of mine now I realise most of his goals did not count. Anything from close range, penalties and any goals against weaker opposition. Gutted