The Palace chairman's HAIR- a new NSC art project?

[Triggaaar]

Kuzsack is good but not a patch on Jules.

That's a bit silly.

You have started well, no doubt. But you did the same last year and it took a 3-1 dicking by us to knock most of you off your high horse. Unfortunatley it seems most of you are back on said horse but that's to be expected, you have such am inferiory complex over us it's unreal hence shit threads like this one.

We lost at home to you last year, but you do realise we finished way ahead at the end of the season right? If we're guilty of anything, it's having a superiority complex over you. Perhaps we should learn a bit of class, but we're too busy enjoying it.

I don't think you will even make the play offs this year, you have the likes of Wolves, Blackburn, Forest, Cardiff, Leeds, Leicester, Bolton, all teams who i think will be ahead of you.

Whilst that could happen, the bookies don't agree with you, so you should be able to understand the optimism here.

I can see you missing out and then good old Gus getting cold feet and jumping ship to the Prem at the first oppurtunity. Couple that in with the JCL's and plastics all getting bored once the novelty wears off, and the downard spiral begins. Enjoy it whilst it lasts though, you might even get a win agains't us one day

You might even do the league double over us, but probably not in our lifetime, or that of our children. I thought you lot said the novalty would wear off last season? I guess you were wrong.

I'm not the one trying to make us sound better than we are, i know the potential in our side and i also know that you don't have anything in your team like Williams and Zaha.

It depends what you mean by 'like'. If you mean as good, then you're wrong. Bruno is so much better than Williams and Zaha I don't know where to start. If you mean as valuable, then I think you're probably right. I don't think we have anyone as valuable as Zaha, but that's mostly down to his age.

Buckley is a very good player but to compare him to Zaha shows you are either crazy, deluded or a mixture of the two. Wilf would walk into 14 out of 20 Premiership sides

So far, Buckley has been better on the pitch than Zaha (that may change soon as Zaha improves). Prem teams will be more interested in Zaha because he's younger (ie, more potential), not better.

It's so difficult to understand the opinion of a few of the Palace posters here. Answer these Brighton vs Palace questions:
Which team do you think will finish higher this season?
Which team has the better manager?
Which team has the better players?

There are Palace fans here that reluctantly accept Brighton will probably finish higher, yet they still argue their manager and players are better. It makes no sense at all.

 

[Mellotron]

Thomas Ince is a MILES better player than Zaha, who is roughly as good as Buckley, with Zaha having less end product, if you look at stats over last season.

And I'm sorry but Kuszczak is looking like comfortably the best keeper in the division. Speroni has been going downhill for years now, still a GOOD Championship keeper sure, but not at the same level as Kusz.

 

[Mellotron]

If we're guilty of anything, it's having a superiority complex over you. Perhaps we should learn a bit of class, but we're too busy enjoying it.

Correct. Palace fans are too thick to realise that to have an inferiority complex you have to actually be inferior. The ONE area we are now inferior is academy facilities, and this is underway anyhow so that's a matter of time. We are ahead of Palace in every single other way and they hate it.

Surely, Palace fans, you acknowledge that a neutral would see Brighton as being way ahead of Palace at present?

Stadium
Fanbase
Manager
Chairman
Players
Style of football
League position

It isn't a fair fight.

 

[GreersElbow]

If he wanted out why would he sign a 5 year deal last year? The fact we have him on a long term deal means we can sell ON OUR TERMS.

Economics of business. The longer the contract, the more money has to be splashed out to acquire him. That isn't down to a player's real market value, which I don't think you understand how it works.

£5m sniffed at by a low-table prem team, if big teams aren't looking at WZ and only the lower prem teams are, then real market value is not £5m, but lower. Clubs cannot command player values, only markets. Clubs slap a price tag on to test the market, sometimes they're undervalued, sometimes over valued. Noone signed a contract extension last year, he has now gone. Your argument is invalid as it lacks understanding of how markets operate.

Clubs getting players to sign contract extensions is down to getting more out of the player, rather than the player showing real signs of wanting to stay. I am certain Zaha knows his career will not advance if he stays at Palace - if he requests a move, then unfortunately Palace would more than likely have to accept a bid around £3.5m in order to get rid of him. Otherwise they're going to have a dissatisfied player on their wage bill.

You could say there's two evaluations:
1) Real value
2) Estimated value

The estimation is produced before the real value, only once the player has been sold after a number of bids come in can the true real value be found.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Economics of business. The longer the contract, the more money has to be splashed out to acquire him. That isn't down to a player's real market value, which I don't think you understand how it works.

£5m sniffed at by a low-table prem team, if big teams aren't looking at WZ and only the lower prem teams are, then real market value is not £5m, but lower. Clubs cannot command player values, only markets. Clubs slap a price tag on to test the market, sometimes they're undervalued, sometimes over valued. Noone signed a contract extension last year, he has now gone. Your argument is invalid as it lacks understanding of how markets operate.

Clubs getting players to sign contract extensions is down to getting more out of the player, rather than the player showing real signs of wanting to stay. I am certain Zaha knows his career will not advance if he stays at Palace - if he requests a move, then unfortunately Palace would more than likely have to accept a bid around £3.5m in order to get rid of him. Otherwise they're going to have a dissatisfied player on their wage bill.

You could say there's two evaluations:
1) Real value
2) Estimated value

The estimation is produced before the real value, only once the player has been sold after a number of bids come in can the true real value be found.

With a young player like this, its all about selling at the right time.

If Palace cling on to Zaha beyond January, then they risk losing out big time. Given that over the course of his career he's actually scored about ten goals and set up a handful of others, his 'value' is based almost entirely on 'potential' (and hype). The problem is, they can only cling onto this for so long. Its fine when a player is 17, or 18, maybe even 19. - a club might shell out £5m if it LOOKS like he's going to develop into a very good player.

IF Palace play hardball for too long and he's still there, failing to actually score or create anything at the age of 22, I reckon he's worth half what he is now...

 

[brightn'ove]

Q. Who are the two biggest ****'s in the world? (excluding Mr. Parish)


























A.

 

[GreersElbow]

With a young player like this, its all about selling at the right time.

If Palace cling on to Zaha beyond January, then they risk losing out big time. Given that over the course of his career he's actually scored about ten goals and set up a handful of others, his 'value' is based almost entirely on 'potential' (and hype). The problem is, they can only cling onto this for so long. Its fine when a player is 17, or 18, maybe even 19. - a club might shell out £5m if it LOOKS like he's going to develop into a very good player.

IF Palace play hardball for too long and he's still there, failing to actually score or create anything at the age of 22, I reckon he's worth half what he is now...

Entirely correct, the potential is obviously included in the value of a player.

But explaining this to a Palace fan is like explaining to someone whose deaf and blind how to form partial differential equations.

 

[Mellotron]

Entirely correct, the potential is obviously included in the value of a player.

But explaining this to a Palace fan is like explaining to someone whose deaf and blind how to form partial differential equations.

i fink zaha is the best in the leage and you are deluded if yu say otherwise. you are alll just liverpool fans anyway and 2nd season sydrum and murrey 1-3 hhhahaha.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Economics of business. The longer the contract, the more money has to be splashed out to acquire him. That isn't down to a player's real market value, which I don't think you understand how it works.

£5m sniffed at by a low-table prem team, if big teams aren't looking at WZ and only the lower prem teams are, then real market value is not £5m, but lower. Clubs cannot command player values, only markets. Clubs slap a price tag on to test the market, sometimes they're undervalued, sometimes over valued. Noone signed a contract extension last year, he has now gone. Your argument is invalid as it lacks understanding of how markets operate.

Clubs getting players to sign contract extensions is down to getting more out of the player, rather than the player showing real signs of wanting to stay. I am certain Zaha knows his career will not advance if he stays at Palace - if he requests a move, then unfortunately Palace would more than likely have to accept a bid around £3.5m in order to get rid of him. Otherwise they're going to have a dissatisfied player on their wage bill.

You could say there's two evaluations:
1) Real value
2) Estimated value

The estimation is produced before the real value, only once the player has been sold after a number of bids come in can the true real value be found.

January prices tend to be higher than those in the summer as teams desperately try to plug gaps in their squads, so I would anticipate a healthy offer for Zaha in January, and I'd guess by then, with the low crowds at Selhurst, it would be accepted.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

i fink zaha is the best in the leage and you are deluded if yu say otherwise. you are alll just liverpool fans anyway and 2nd season sydrum and murrey 1-3 hhhahaha.

Fair points.

 

[Simster]

January prices tend to be higher than those in the summer as teams desperately try to plug gaps in their squads, so I would anticipate a healthy offer for Zaha in January, and I'd guess by then, with the low crowds at Selhurst, it would be accepted.

I'd think their probable lower mid-table league position would make this an even easier decision. They had better then hope that Murray doesn't get a sulk on so that he can keep them up.

 

[GreersElbow]

January prices tend to be higher than those in the summer as teams desperately try to plug gaps in their squads, so I would anticipate a healthy offer for Zaha in January, and I'd guess by then, with the low crowds at Selhurst, it would be accepted.

Only time will tell, but if he doesn't get shifted by the end of this season. I think his value would greatly drop, considering when you look younger players before him such as Powell get snapped up from Crewe Alexandra for like £5m. He'll be thinking "why hasn't anyone came in for me yet?". The reason being is you're over-valued by an average club that is not bringing the best out of him.

A move to somewhere like Wigan or even Southampton would do him a world of good as it'll expose him to one of the highest levels of the game, then we would see if the big 4 are interested or not.

Oh, I forgot. English players valuation are slightly inflated also, so we must take that into consideration for £1bn real market value Zaha

 

[Eagle_83]

That's a bit silly.
We lost at home to you last year, but you do realise we finished way ahead at the end of the season right? If we're guilty of anything, it's having a superiority complex over you. Perhaps we should learn a bit of class, but we're too busy enjoying it.

Whilst that could happen, the bookies don't agree with you, so you should be able to understand the optimism here.
You might even do the league double over us, but probably not in our lifetime, or that of our children. I thought you lot said the novalty would wear off last season? I guess you were wrong.
It depends what you mean by 'like'. If you mean as good, then you're wrong. Bruno is so much better than Williams and Zaha I don't know where to start. If you mean as valuable, then I think you're probably right. I don't think we have anyone as valuable as Zaha, but that's mostly down to his age.

So far, Buckley has been better on the pitch than Zaha (that may change soon as Zaha improves). Prem teams will be more interested in Zaha because he's younger (ie, more potential), not better.

It's so difficult to understand the opinion of a few of the Palace posters here. Answer these Brighton vs Palace questions:
Which team do you think will finish higher this season?
Which team has the better manager?
Which team has the better players?

There are Palace fans here that reluctantly accept Brighton will probably finish higher, yet they still argue their manager and players are better. It makes no sense at all.

Good grief Trig, you're another that bites on every Palace thread. I've said it before and I'll say it again, 10 points last season wasn't a fair reflection in my view. The 2 derby games proved that. We had the cup run and rested a lot of players as a result of this including playing an entire reserve game for one league game. I know you also had an FA Cup run but I bet Gus didn't rest anywhere near the level of players in League games compared to Freedman. Secondly, we were on for a top half finish when in March we lost 4 influential players in the space of a week. All teams get injuries granted but to lose 4 all at once like that (along with a host of other injuries throughout the season) was more than unlucky and resulted it a huge dip in form and saw us finish 17th.

In regards to your point about the bookies, you do understand they don't get it right every time We were third favourites to go down at the start of the season now we are 9th favourites. The year Blackpool went up to the Prem they were the bookies favourites to go down, says it all.

Not sure why you have a superiority complex over us, ask most neutrals who the bigger club is and most will say Palace. Bigger catchment area, more history, bigger attendances for years. Only thing you can be superior over is the stadium but it's not even that impressive if we are being honest.

We will agree to disagree about Buckly/Zaha. Again, ask any neutral and I know who most would rather have in there side.

Onto Doug/Gus. Not really a fair comparison is it? Gus has had longer in the job and more funds at his disposal. Freedman in the 2 meetings they have had as managers has taken 4 points to Gus's 1. Freedman also has a cup semi on his CV including a win at Old Trafford.

In regards to players I'd say that's 50/50. I'd prob take 5 of your players but there's no way I would swap Speroni, Blake, Jedinak, KG, Williams or Zaha for any of your mob. I think you may edge it this year as your squad is bigger and therefore able to deal with injuries better but in regards to best starting X1 it's way to close to call.

 

[Eagle_83]

As for the plastics shit, it's becoming more and more obvious that HALF (the figure you mugs came up with) of our home crowd aren't plastic fans bearing in mind 95% of people renewed. We EVEN take more to Millwall than you ever have. Surely that's the clearest example to suggest otherwise, Millwall being 'scary' and all that.


Utter bullshit about Millwall away, we sold out last time we played there.

 

[Bean]

As for the plastics shit, it's becoming more and more obvious that HALF (the figure you mugs came up with) of our home crowd aren't plastic fans bearing in mind 95% of people renewed. We EVEN take more to Millwall than you ever have. Surely that's the clearest example to suggest otherwise, Millwall being 'scary' and all that.


Utter bullshit about Millwall away, we sold out last time we played there.

Well done. But did you sell any of the bottom tier?

 

[upthealbion1970]

Good grief Trig, you're another that bites on every Palace thread. I've said it before and I'll say it again, 10 points last season wasn't a fair reflection in my view. The 2 derby games proved that. We had the cup run and rested a lot of players as a result of this including playing an entire reserve game for one league game. I know you also had an FA Cup run but I bet Gus didn't rest anywhere near the level of players in League games compared to Freedman. Secondly, we were on for a top half finish when in March we lost 4 influential players in the space of a week. All teams get injuries granted but to lose 4 all at once like that (along with a host of other injuries throughout the season) was more than unlucky and resulted it a huge dip in form and saw us finish 17th.

You played ONE game more than us last season, you were 10 points behind us after we both played every other team in the league so how you can say its not a fair reflection shows you to be more than a bit simple. You know you're a melt, we know you're a melt now f*** off and burn your own town where you belong.

 

[upthealbion1970]

As for the plastics shit, it's becoming more and more obvious that HALF (the figure you mugs came up with) of our home crowd aren't plastic fans bearing in mind 95% of people renewed. We EVEN take more to Millwall than you ever have. Surely that's the clearest example to suggest otherwise, Millwall being 'scary' and all that.


Utter bullshit about Millwall away, we sold out last time we played there.

You didn't take as many as we did to milwall, hence our turnout there was the biggest away following for several years but don't let that stop you posting made up rubbish will you

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The 10 point gap WASN'T a fair reflection , it would have been bigger if we had a realistic shot at the play offs with half a dozen games left. We had one of our league games with 11 players out injured but still managed to give Southampton a 3 nil drubbing.

 

[tip top]

Not sure why you have a superiority complex over us, ask most neutrals who the bigger club is and most will say Palace. Bigger catchment area, more history, bigger attendances for years. Only thing you can be superior over is the stadium but it's not even that impressive if we are being honest.

Jesus wept

Bigger catchment area and you manage 9K

Bigger attendances for years...... carry on living in the past mug

 

[Triggaaar]

Good grief Trig, you're another that bites on every Palace thread.

I like a chat with our Palace friends.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, 10 points last season wasn't a fair reflection in my view.

I'd perhaps agree, but I'd be thinking it should have been more. You didn't see Brighton play that much, so I don't see what position you're in to doubt the table (I'm pretty sure I saw Palace play more than you saw Brighton). The 2 derby games only showed that we'd have finished 13 points ahead if it weren't for the derby games. Derbies aren't like the rest of the season, they're not a great indication of a team. No one game is really, which is why we have a league.

I know you also had an FA Cup run but I bet Gus didn't rest anywhere near the level of players in League games compared to Freedman.

We did play 4 games against premier league opposition, and put out a full strength team, so that would've affected us too.

Secondly, we were on for a top half finish when in March we lost 4 influential players in the space of a week. All teams get injuries granted but to lose 4 all at once like that (along with a host of other injuries throughout the season) was more than unlucky and resulted it a huge dip in form and saw us finish 17th.

We were in 5th with not many games to go. We had our fair share of injuries, and not coping better was a sign of the lack of strength in our squad, which I guess applies to you too.

In regards to your point about the bookies, you do understand they don't get it right every time?

Of course, and if you think you'll finish above us there's money to be made. I'd like a bet with you for a start.

Not sure why you have a superiority complex over us, ask most neutrals who the bigger club is and most will say Palace. Bigger catchment area, more history, bigger attendances for years. Only thing you can be superior over is the stadium but it's not even that impressive if we are being honest.

The reason we have a superiority complex, is because we believe we are the better club. Look at the list posted above:
Stadium
Fanbase
Manager
Chairman
Players
Style of football
League position

Ask neutrals, and I think they'd all agree that Brighton are ahead on those points (*)
Stadium - no argument.
Fanbase (*) change to number of fans going to games, just so it's more a matter of fact = no argument
Manager - You're currently liking Dougie as you've had a good couple of games, so you'll disagree, but you should understand why most think Gus is the better manager. Neutrals will say he is.
Chairman - CPFC2010 didn't want to own Palace and did it because they thought there was no alternative to keep the club going. Fair play to them, and if I were a Palace fan I'd be very grateful to them. We've been luckier, and got a chairman that did want to own his home club, and wanted to lend it over £100m for the ground. We got luckier, that's all there is to it. You can't really argue with that.
Players - most neutrals would prefer ours.
Style - your own fans have hated your style over the last few years, blaming that for the poor attendances. I've read your forum and know they felt differently about the last two games, but we've loved the style Gus brought here over two years ago.
League position, this season and last, no argument.
Academy - yours, but that's not something we feel inferior about as we're just starting to build ours, which is obviously a genuine point given our unique circumstances (as opposed to any old club saying yeah we're improving that).

So that's why we feel superior.

We will agree to disagree about Buckly/Zaha. Again, ask any neutral and I know who most would rather have in there side.

I don't suppose many neutrals will have seen them play as much as me. You should see the stats though, assists and goals scored per minute for Buckley is way ahead of Zaha. Although Zaha is less injury prone, which is a big benefit. The best thing about Zaha though, as said above several times, is his potential. Maybe this year he'll go on to be better than Buckley. Buckley isn't our best player though, just a winger for comparison.

Onto Doug/Gus. Not really a fair comparison is it? Gus has had longer in the job and more funds at his disposal.

Longer in the job, fair enough, no problem. More funds isn't as easy to compare. Doug started with players like Clyne, Williams, Zaha etc, Gus started towards the bottom of L1, with no academy to look at, and we really haven't spent much at all. You obviously think the value of your top 4 players is more than we've spent on our entire squad (I'm not even joking).

Freedman in the 2 meetings they have had as managers has taken 4 points to Gus's 1.

You can't just choose the games you've done well in to see who is best, that's daft. You have to look at the entire season, and we finished well above you.

Freedman also has a cup semi on his CV including a win at Old Trafford.

I'm not sure that really means much. I'd have loved the win at OT if I were you, but it doesn't mean anything. You rode your luck and won by a goal that should have been given for offside against an understandably second choice Utd team. Like I say, no reason why you shouldn't celebrate that, but as an indication of Dougie's ability you need to take the circumstances into account.

In regards to players I'd say that's 50/50. I'd prob take 5 of your players but there's no way I would swap Speroni, Blake, Jedinak, KG, Williams or Zaha for any of your mob.

With respect, have you actually seen our first 11 play 90 minutes in a single game (if so, which one and how)?