[Albion] The OFFICIAL what’s gone wrong with our season thread

[dazzer6666]

-Fairly poor recruitment by our standards with only Pedro and Verbruggen looking like good signings at this point.

-That includes failing to strengthen in certain areas eg. going into the season with 1 left back and 2 injury prone right backs continues to blow my mind. We were fortunate that Hinshelwood was able to slot into the right back role otherwise we would have been truly stuffed.

-I wonder if deep down we didn't believe that anyone would actually match the fee we'd set for Caicedo and therefore were a bit unprepared in terms of replacing him

-The loan system has been good to us in recent years but in hindsight there are players that could have, at the very least, provided cover this season. Alzate, Sarmiento and Undav in particular could have all been very useful this season.

-As soon as the injuries kicked in there was a domino effect. An example being that at one point we only had Mitoma and Adingra available to play on the wings and they were basically having to play all game every game. Inevitably both of them then got burnt out and injured

-I know we don't like doing too much in January but if there was ever a season to break that habit it was this one.


and ultimately

-For whatever reason De Zerbi just doesn't seem focused, energised or motivated any more

Think Barco and Baleba will turn out to be excellent signings - they just weren't ready replacements for what we lost in those areas

 

[Betfair Bozo]

Injuries, mainly. You can make up for a loss of form in individual players to an extent by using the squad but not when you don't have similarly capable replacements fit and available. There might be internal issues but that is guesswork so the tangible reason is injuries and the added burden they place on the rest of the squad. All things being equal we should be in a stronger position to start next season and with no European games that is when I will judge where we are.

 

[el punal]

When Alexis and Moses were sold and no where near Good enough replacements brought in
RDZ was not given the tools to do his job but in the last few months he has given up and I think there is a split in the camp which is causing these odd and bad results .
The lickers saying we have nothing to play for are talking shite as every point every place is worth millions

We were doing perfectly okay at the beginning of the season without Mac Alister and Caicedo. It was the Villa defeat of 6-1 that things started to go tits up. From there on in the injuries to key players and loss of form in others conspired to make us weaker. RDZ does not become a bad coach overnight and the same with the players. Bad results and bad performances happen and it happens to all teams.

With regard to your disparaging comment about ‘lickers’ stating we have nothing to play for they are, to some degree, right. The chances of gaining a European spot are remote. But yes, you are correct that every point and every place gained is worth millions to the club in the final analysis. We do look a dispirited, weakened side plagued by misfortune. Despite all those woes we have so much to look forward to next season. We have a whole raft of new exciting players in our ranks who will get better with experience. We will have the return from injury of those players who have contributed so much to our success over the last year. Out of darkness comes light and all that!

 

[um bongo molongo]

My main concern is not the manager but the recruitment. We’ve lost a lot of expertise and, Pedro apart, our recruitment this season was s***. It feels like we’re spending a lot of time chasing ‘aspirational’ targets and getting turned down (Kudus, KDH, the guy who went to Chelsea). Back in my clubbing days it would have been the equivalent of spending too much time trying to chat up the girls out of your league, and then getting left on your tod trying to find a gem in what’s left at 2am…

 

[jimhigham]

The reasons will be multiple and complex and I'm really not qualified to comment.

But I know my heart sank when Solly was injured. That felt like a gut punch. The poor guy.

 

[Clive Walker]

This whole thing that the club didn't see Caicedo going in the Summer is an odd one, because after the public statement in January it really did feel inevitable.

And, if our replacement for Caicedo was always going to be a young prospect, why not get them in early in the Summer to involve them in pre season etc. and if - in the unlikely event that Caicedo didn't go - at least we had his replacement in house ready to learn off of him.

nobody really things that Baleba was our no 1 target to replace Moises. We fannied about so much in that department. I recall RDZ saying he knew who the replacement was and I really don;t think it was Baleba.

 

[GT49er]

No. He had a good record. But into his 30's it was obvious we would need cover and competition for that place last season. It's even more obvious for next season, and I think Veltman will be off, so maybe two more needed.

The clubs plan I think was that Milner would be able to fill in occasionally. An awful idea.

Yes, we obviously needed cover and competition for the RB spot - but 30 is no age for a footballer these days, and a previously fit and healthy Veltman plus Lamptey should have been quite adequate for the job. LB though, another story (although adding Barco in January probably covered that eventually).

 

[doogie004]

Bloom not opening his wallet for ready made players

 

[Flounce]

Bloom not opening his wallet for ready made players

True it’s been a disaster of Stanley, Archer proportions since he arrived on the scene

 

[Hiheidi]

nobody really things that Baleba was our no 1 target to replace Moises. We fannied about so much in that department. I recall RDZ saying he knew who the replacement was and I really don;t think it was Baleba.

Roberto told an Italian journalist in the Summer that Fred was "one of the favourites" and we were following him "with the headlights off". He sold to Fenerbache for £12m, so easily in our price range. Wonder if we were trying for someone else and then our other targets got snapped up.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

We were doing perfectly okay at the beginning of the season without Mac Alister and Caicedo. It was the Villa defeat of 6-1 that things started to go tits up. From there on in the injuries to key players and loss of form in others conspired to make us weaker. RDZ does not become a bad coach overnight and the same with the players. Bad results and bad performances happen and it happens to all teams.

I disagree things went wrong after Villa. We lost 1 in 9 games after that (League and Europa). The loss was against Man City and we picked up results against Liverpool, Marseille away and wrapped up Euro qualification in Athens along the way. We weren't as free flowing as we were in the early games (we were superb at Wolves) but we were by no means bad either. I.dont think we were that bad against Villa either. We were infinitely better than we were yesterday.

We've fallen off a cliff after the Sheffield Utd game. That coincides with Mitoma getting injured, the transfer window closing and RDZ getting a grump on.

 

[Balders]

Simon Stone on the BBC has nailed it for me, firstly specifically about Brighton and also as a comparison to West Ham - it's just a dose of reality I'm afraid.....

Matt, Birmingham: Brighton don't seem to be the same force as last season. Some say Roberto De Zerbi has been 'found out' but personally I believe their strategy of selling their best players, even for big money, will only ever see them drop down. Thoughts?

I think Brighton are a fascinating club. Historically, they are on for one of their best ever finishes. Even in this Premier League era, they are doing well.

However, their standards have been set and living up to them is incredibly difficult. I mentioned this theme in an answer on West Ham earlier. Last season, Kaoru Mitoma, Pervis Estupinan and Evan Ferguson were all superb. This season they have largely been injured. In addition they sold Alexis Mac Allister and Moises Caicedo. And on top of all that, they had a European campaign to contend with.

Like West Ham, Brighton are not a club who can pay huge amounts of money on players to fill out a squad to use when injuries bite. Roberto De Zerbi has had to manage that situation. While David Moyes gets criticised for being too negative, De Zerbi is too open.

The truth is neither club has the squad depth needed to compete across a 38 game season, with European demands added in. The respective managers try and deal with the situation in the best way they can.

Neil, a Hammer in Edinburgh: Afternoon Simon. Do you think it’s time for David Moyes to move on, and who do you think should replace him if he does? Personally think it’s time, four wins in 2024 just isn’t good enough with our squad, which he refuses to use. Cheers.

Well, there are a lot of names being linked with the job and it is also clear a lot of fans are not having David Moyes, no matter what he has done for the club.

I can see both sides of the argument. Three successive European campaigns is unprecedented for West Ham. Top 10 Premier League finishes, which still looks likely, are not ‘the norm’. But I see fans want more attractive football.

My issue with that is, do West Ham have the resource to build the kind of squad fans want? They have attractive players, but where is the back-up when those players are either injured or not playing well? The difference between a club like West Ham and Manchester City is that City can spend £50m on a player then stick them on the bench. West Ham can’t do that. Brighton are struggling for the same reason this season.

I am not going to say ‘be careful what you wish for’ because no-one can look into the future. But putting together football teams is not as simple as it appears sometimes. The young lads have done well at Under-18 and Under-21 level but if they were good enough, they would be playing.

 

[Clive Walker]

As usual it’s a nothing article from Naylor with no actual insight.

We have been unlucky with injuries and made a couple of recruitment mistakes but I do lay the blame for where the season has gone with De Zerbi. I will explain in detail why I believe that so I don’t get accused of just giving soundbites and whatever else those who criticize De Zerbi get thrown at them. I do think things through, I don’t just say these things lightly but I love this club and I think he has let us down recently and is currently doing some harm to the club. Obviously not in the same league as Archer/Belotti etc in the past but on the playing side and for where we are generally as a club these days.

We did make a couple of mistakes in the summer recruitment by not signing a right and left back. I have less issue with centre midfield as it was impossible to replace Caicedo and Mac Allister ability wise and we did bring in reinforcements there which on paper at the time looked good and Gilmour was able to feature more who supposedly has had a good season.

I don’t have much of an issue with January. We signed some kids and Barco for the first team squad and we already had quite a big squad and players returning from injury. Plus, the market wasn’t really moving. We will always be sensible with spending and I wholeheartedly support that. I 100% trust Bloom, Barber and those in senior management positions at the club to make the right decisions as time has proven they nearly always do.

The injuries have obviously been unfortunate but all sides have suffered this season and some more than us. I think the constant reference to the injured and sold players has not helped the fit and current players though. It can’t be great to constantly hear that your coach wishes he had those players playing instead (incidentally he couldn’t wait to talk those same sold players out of the club last season). We spent £100m on new players last summer in addition to a squad of already talented players and up and coming youngsters. Regardless of injuries and players sold, he’s still had a decent, talented squad to pick a team from that lots of managers would give anything for every week.

The rotation this season has been ridiculous, starting with the keeper situation, and it clearly hasn’t helped the players who now look more unfit and lacking in confidence than any team we’ve faced who haven’t rotated as much. By making such a big deal of the extra European games, he almost convinced the players they couldn’t handle this season physically before they’d even started. And yet Mitoma and Gross never got rested when it was obvious they needed it and Mitoma’s injuries and Gross’s current form and fitness are the end result.

Tactically he looks lost. We have no identity in the way we’re playing and the stuff that gets spoken about his football being exciting has looked nonsense this season. We’re incredibly weak at the back, giving away goals for fun and lack any invention going forward and have done for the majority of the season.

Finally his press conferences have done absolutely no good whatsoever for the confidence of the players or club as a whole. His ranting on the touchline at times makes him look like a madman - our bench of players and coaches yesterday looked absolutely shellshocked sinking into their seats. Basic management - you just can’t do that when everyone is clearly so demoralised already. The players look devoid of any confidence whatsoever and his public actions do nothing to help them.

And then he says the players are lacking motivation or incentive - or whatever word people come up with to defend him - well that is his job to sort that shit out not throw the players under a bus! We still had loads to play for after the Roma game.

So all in all, yes the recruitment might have been a bit better and we have been hit by injuries but I think De Zerbi has a lot to answer for. With the current form and confidence where it is, unless there are some big changes, next season is a real concern.

i also think that rotation may have actually caused injuries rather than protect against

 

[GT49er]

Roberto told an Italian journalist in the Summer that Fred was "one of the favourites" and we were following him "with the headlights off". He sold for £12m, so easily in our price range. Wonder if we were trying for someone else and then our other targets got snapped up.

£12 million? I think that was probably his wages!

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

That coincides with Mitoma getting injured, the transfer window closing and RDZ getting a grump on.

I agree with that.

Others will point out that we hadn't been great for months before that, and they would be right.

But after that Sheff Utd game, we were looking good for a big finish to our season. Adingra and Mitoma back from international competitions and plenty of noises about Pedro and Enciso being back soon, still 3 fronts to fight on.

Then came the news about Mitoma, I posted here at the time, that was the season done in that moment there. I was feeling pretty negative, but even I couldn't see the collapse coming. The Pedro injury taking more time, Gross losing form, Dunk mistakes punished. 2 x insipid cup exits in a week and the injuries keep on coming. Hinsh, Gilmour, Pervis, Ferguson. Enciso barely fit even now. League form goes off a cliff and we can't score for a whole month.

Lots of moments contributed to our recent woe, but I think Mitoma injury was the one. That was the moment the dream died

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Bloom not opening his wallet for ready made players

Palace troll

 

[Vicar!]

It's unsustainable losing so many key people in such a short space of time.

2022:
Technical Director
Goalkeeping coach***
Head of recruitment***
Recruitment analyst***
Potter & co
Bissouma*, Mwepu**

2023:
Club doctor****
Replacement club doctor****
Head of medical & performance****
Performance manager
Lead performance analyst
Trossard, Caicedo***** & Mac Allister***** (Undav)

2024:
Head of recruitment***

There's probably more. How many have been replaced with improved candidates? Some haven't yet been replaced. Yes, there are problems on the pitch, but there's been a huge 'brain drain' off it.

This is very telling, two wonderful seasons and the whole club gets picked apart by the big boys. Sadly it will happen again and again a la Southampton and Leicester. Just imagine what could have been.

 

[doogie004]

True it’s been a disaster of Stanley, Archer proportions since he arrived on the scene

Palace troll

Nope just sadly the truth too many youngsters not ready or too old players
Warren stated exactly this on radio yesterday on way home from game

 

[London Irish]

Not properly strengthening in the past two transfer windows, it's not more complicated than that. Every club lives or dies on the pitch via recruitment

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This is very telling, two wonderful seasons and the whole club gets picked apart by the big boys. Sadly it will happen again and again a la Southampton and Leicester. Just imagine what could have been.

That's the fatal flaw in the club's business model sadly. Say we were to unearth the next Rooney or Messi or Ronaldo. As soon as they hit the first team they're in the shop window and - assuming they're not a one-season-wonder - they'll be ripe for plucking. And the club will be powerless to do anything about it other than bank the cash. It's depressing from the point of view of the club trying to ever build anything special for any length of time