[Misc] The Official NSC Bird Spotting Thread.

[Wardy's twin]

Just a phone. Redmi Note 9 Pro, so nothing fancy.

I have no clue where to start with a camera. And advice appreciated. Budget is very limited, but I would love to be able to get some clear close ups with a camera.

I have been through a (large) number of cameras in the last 10 years because I knew very little and thought technology would improve my picture taking. It does BUT it comes at a price and some of the improvements are marginal with the return on money dropping off considerably. That said if you pay for the best gear you have a better chance of taking better photos. Personally I have shied away from spending a lot of money on one item i.e. a very good new camera will cost £2000+ without lenses. Top of my range has been around £500 for a body( i have spent this on both new and a second hand body). Although I spent quite a bit on swapping in most cases I got most of my money back because I bought second hand and made sure I bought at a low price. On ebay prices vary tremendously for the same item so you need to know your price ranges.

All cameras are a compromise , size, weight, zoom range , cost and you need to bias that towards what you want to do with it.

From your comment your budget is low , how low?

Your main interest is bird watching? So you need a zoom....

How much do you want to carry around? that's an issue with bulk and weight. Do you want something to slip in your pocket or are you happy lugging around 4-5 kilos...

What sort of image quality do you want? Something to printout and mount on a wall or just a good image as a record of your sighting.

I was going comment about various types of sensor and megabytes but this is the wrong place but one word of advice the more megabytes doesn't always deliver the best image and unless you are printing big scale you can get away with less and on a small sensor (the cheap one) and that is a good thing IMO.

This image was taken using a fujifim FinePix S5600 about 12 years ago. I think it is a 5mp camera on a very small sensor at 10 times zoom. The second image is a crop I have taken from it to zoom in further. I recently bought one of these on ebay for £30 including P&P for my 4 year old grandson. The camera is very light weight and relatively small and has a view finder to look through + a small screen at the back.




Note the weather was sunny and hence the light was good

here is a close up....

Something to start with....

I know other fujifilm cameras are available usually with increasingly larger zooms and megabytes....

I also have some experience of sony compact zooms which i will see what i can find.

up from these i have used panasonic/olympus micro 4/3s, pentax aspc cameras and sony a7 full frame....

 

[1066familyman]

I have been through a (large) number of cameras in the last 10 years because I knew very little and thought technology would improve my picture taking. It does BUT it comes at a price and some of the improvements are marginal with the return on money dropping off considerably. That said if you pay for the best gear you have a better chance of taking better photos. Personally I have shied away from spending a lot of money on one item i.e. a very good new camera will cost £2000+ without lenses. Top of my range has been around £500 for a body( i have spent this on both new and a second hand body). Although I spent quite a bit on swapping in most cases I got most of my money back because I bought second hand and made sure I bought at a low price. On ebay prices vary tremendously for the same item so you need to know your price ranges.

All cameras are a compromise , size, weight, zoom range , cost and you need to bias that towards what you want to do with it.

From your comment your budget is low , how low?

Your main interest is bird watching? So you need a zoom....

How much do you want to carry around? that's an issue with bulk and weight. Do you want something to slip in your pocket or are you happy lugging around 4-5 kilos...

What sort of image quality do you want? Something to printout and mount on a wall or just a good image as a record of your sighting.

I was going comment about various types of sensor and megabytes but this is the wrong place but one word of advice the more megabytes doesn't always deliver the best image and unless you are printing big scale you can get away with less and on a small sensor (the cheap one) and that is a good thing IMO.

This image was taken using a fujifim FinePix S5600 about 12 years ago. I think it is a 5mp camera on a very small sensor at 10 times zoom. The second image is a crop I have taken from it to zoom in further. I recently bought one of these on ebay for £30 including P&P for my 4 year old grandson. The camera is very light weight and relatively small and has a view finder to look through + a small screen at the back.

View attachment 145095
View attachment 145096

Note the weather was sunny and hence the light was good

here is a close up....View attachment 145097

Something to start with....

I know other fujifilm cameras are available usually with increasingly larger zooms and megabytes....

I also have some experience of sony compact zooms which i will see what i can find.

up from these i have used panasonic/olympus micro 4/3s, pentax aspc cameras and sony a7 full frame....

Thanks for the response.

For bird watching what I'm after is either of two things to get good detail at maximum magnification, at an absolute maximum budget of £500, ideally less. Very willing to buy 2nd hand.

1. Stay with the cheap Viking Swallow 12-36x with 50mm objective lens and then spend the money on sticking a half decent camera on it. Or to use the camera on its own on the tripod.

2. Spending the money upgrading the scope to a Viking Swallow 20-60x with 80mm objective lens. £500 for the ED version. Still stick my phone on it.

So far, I'm favouring option 2, as the Marsh Harriers I regular watch are just out of range for a detailed image.

Any recommendations on camera set up that can achieve this would be most welcome. Weight is not a huge issue as a lot of my bird watching doesn't involve long walks.

 

[1066familyman]

Oh, I forgot to mention that maybe a camera set up would be best as currently I can't really capture moving images. My phone doesn't allow me to adjust shutter speed, so for example recent attempts at capturing lapwings in flight was pathetic to say the least.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Thanks for the response.

For bird watching what I'm after is either of two things to get good detail at maximum magnification, at an absolute maximum budget of £500, ideally less. Very willing to buy 2nd hand.

1. Stay with the cheap Viking Swallow 12-36x with 50mm objective lens and then spend the money on sticking a half decent camera on it. Or to use the camera on its own on the tripod.

2. Spending the money upgrading the scope to a Viking Swallow 20-60x with 80mm objective lens. £500 for the ED version. Still stick my phone on it.

So far, I'm favouring option 2, as the Marsh Harriers I regular watch are just out of range for a detailed image.

Any recommendations on camera set up that can achieve this would be most welcome. Weight is not a huge issue as a lot of my bird watching doesn't involve long walks.

We should move this debate to the general photography thread as there more individuals who can talk about their experience. I think people would tend to recommend CANON or NIKON cameras with aspc sized sensors (i have had neither). I would guess they would also mention a sigma 150-500 type lens. Aspc type sensor would be recommended as it gives increased magnification over the better(and more expensive) full frame. Basically you can increase the zoom range *1.5 so a 300mm lens becomes 450mm. Not sure what you would get for £500. I did have a cheap sigma 70-300mm (effectively 450mm) on my pentax aspc camera but that is nowhere near the range 20*60 range. There are various modern bridge cameras that do large zoom ranges but they are generally small sensor size.

I guess if you have a scope you will be fairly static whilst a camera will give you more mobility. Also need to take into consideration focussing as it will be a lot easier IMO on a camera even if you are doing it manually.

What sort of light gathering potential does the scope give you i.e. does it have an f number. I have telescopes which i have put a camera on so i would think it should...

 

[1066familyman]

We should move this debate to the general photography thread as there more individuals who can talk about their experience. I think people would tend to recommend CANON or NIKON cameras with aspc sized sensors (i have had neither). I would guess they would also mention a sigma 150-500 type lens. Aspc type sensor would be recommended as it gives increased magnification over the better(and more expensive) full frame. Basically you can increase the zoom range *1.5 so a 300mm lens becomes 450mm. Not sure what you would get for £500. I did have a cheap sigma 70-300mm (effectively 450mm) on my pentax aspc camera but that is nowhere near the range 20*60 range. There are various modern bridge cameras that do large zoom ranges but they are generally small sensor size.

I guess if you have a scope you will be fairly static whilst a camera will give you more mobility. Also need to take into consideration focussing as it will be a lot easier IMO on a camera even if you are doing it manually.

What sort of light gathering potential does the scope give you i.e. does it have an f number. I have telescopes which i have put a camera on so i would think it should...

Thanks. Yes, I agree, I should really take it to the photography thread. I'll give that a go.

To answer your last question. The 50mm objective lens I currently have on my spotting scope does pretty well, even when the light is not bright. The upgrade I'm considering will have an 80mm objective lens, so no worries on the light gathering front.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Thanks. Yes, I agree, I should really take it to the photography thread. I'll give that a go.

To answer your last question. The 50mm objective lens I currently have on my spotting scope does pretty well, even when the light is not bright. The upgrade I'm considering will have an 80mm objective lens, so no worries on the light gathering front.

how would the scope connect to a camera is a t2 type connector?

with the phone it is different as you get a bracket that lets phone hover over the eyeiece.

 

[1066familyman]

how would the scope connect to a camera is a t2 type connector?

with the phone it is different as you get a bracket that lets phone hover over the eyeiece.

There are adapters to connect camera to scope, although I haven't explored that yet as I don't use a camera.

For the phone, I have an adapter that gently screws onto the scope. Can be a bit fiddly, but once on it works well. I also have a Bluetooth remote shutter button as I discovered that touching the phone to take a photo always caused vibration and a blurred image. Which reminds me. Do cameras come with Bluetooth? Or would I have to attach a wired shutter button?

This is the phone adapter I have:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prismático...t=&hvlocphy=9045120&hvtargid=pla-797315567485

 

[Wardy's twin]

There are adapters to connect camera to scope, although I haven't explored that yet as I don't use a camera.

For the phone, I have an adapter that gently screws onto the scope. Can be a bit fiddly, but once on it works well. I also have a Bluetooth remote shutter button as I discovered that touching the phone to take a photo always caused vibration and a blurred image. Which reminds me. Do cameras come with Bluetooth? Or would I have to attach a wired shutter button?

This is the phone adapter I have:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Prismático...t=&hvlocphy=9045120&hvtargid=pla-797315567485

That's very similar to the one i use on my telescope when using my samsung s7 phone. The advantage of this type is you clamp it onto to the eyepiece which is the bit that gives you the extra magnification. The phone also allowed for magnification (zoom) which i don't get with my pentax dslr as it has no inbuilt zoom. Note my phone actually responds to the word 'shoot'. It is quite effective. I have not used it for my redmi 10 because it does not fit the bracket and the bracket i used was a bit lose so don't want phone to drop off.

I use a t2 connection which is is a tube with a thread one end and a camera mount fitting on the other for my cameras to connect. It is more robust. Most cameras allow for remote shutters , i prefer wired (£15) but can get infrared.

 

[1066familyman]

I saw a pair of Pochard ducks yesterday. Lovely little things, but it was so windy and they spend so much time diving underwater that I didn't manage to get any decent photos of them.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

1066, are you a member of the Sussex Ornithological Society (www.sos.org.uk)? They have a very useful latest sightings page, and until the pandemic at least, ran an annual conference at the Clair Hall in Haywards Heath, i.e. most people who relied on public transport could get there. The last couple of years the conference has been on Zoom, and Mid Sussex District Council has closed the Clair Hall, so I don't know where they will go once they can hold it in person again. I think you can also DM/PM individual posters via the website, so that might provide a useful route for purchasing second hand equipment. Also, and I've no idea if they still do it, as Mum and I don't really birdwatch now, but Kay Opitcal used to run a stand at Sevenoaks Wildfowl Reserve one Sunday a month, at which they sold a fair amount of second hand gear as well as new stuff. My parents bought me a pair of Swarowski binoculars there a few years ago. Sadly they went on the blink and I can't find anywhere to repair them, so I've augmented them with a pair or Nikons). It's a reasonable cycle from Sevenoaks Station, which obviously you can easily get to from Hastings.

If you're looking for sightings, try the West Beach at Newhaven. The Fulmars have returned to the cliffs, and there were a fair number there when we went down there last Sunday. Another place worth checking is Southease. You can get off the train there and check the fields for owls, etc. Then later in the year, check the cliffs at Seaford, by the pier to see whether the kittiwakes have returned.

 

[1066familyman]

Saw a pair of Red Breasted Geese yesterday locally.

Absolute stunners!

Apparently quite rare here in the wild. Certainly my first sighting. They're quite small. See Coot behind them in first pic for size comparison.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Anyone? Pale red breast, pale red head, long tail, 100% not a robin, location Hassocks.

 

[Kneon Light]

I’m afraid it is a robin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BN9 BHA]

Anyone? Pale red breast, pale red head, long tail, 100% not a robin, location Hassocks.

View attachment 149528

View attachment 149529

Christmas Sparrow
(Robin)

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

I’m afraid it is a robin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was the most unusual variety if it was, longer and less rotund in body, the colouring going right down the length of the body, not just on the breast area, a much paler red than seen on a typical robin and the red broken up around the neck area whereas robin colouring runs down in one uninterrupted patch.

 

[Eeyore]

It was the most unusual variety if it was, longer and less rotund in body, the colouring going right down the length of the body, not just on the breast area, a much paler red than seen on a typical robin and the red broken up around the neck area whereas robin colouring runs down in one uninterrupted patch.

Possibly a juvenile.

 

[Eeyore]

 

[Kneon Light]

It was the most unusual variety if it was, longer and less rotund in body, the colouring going right down the length of the body, not just on the breast area, a much paler red than seen on a typical robin and the red broken up around the neck area whereas robin colouring runs down in one uninterrupted patch.

There are variations in exact markings but it is definitely a robin. At this time of year it will have faded a bit post breeding season which is whit it won't be as bright. Birds this time of year are often quite scruffy as they moult their breeding feathers and grow new ones.

 

[1066familyman]

Spoonbill from yesterday...

Solitary bird, spotted at Rye Harbour.

 

[1066familyman]

Also from yesterday. Grey Wagtail.