The Official 104th Tour de France thread

[Stat Brother]

...

 

[Pantani]

Anyone get on the 12-1 for Aru?

That was seriously impressive he has to be considered a real contender now.

BMC did an awful lot of work for 4th place. I suppose their riders are no use on the climbs anyway, so Richie may as well burn all his helpers up on the flat. Doesn't look good for him on the longer multi climb stages in the Alps though.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Anyone get on the 12-1 for Aru?

That was seriously impressive he has to be considered a real contender now.

BMC did an awful lot of work for 4th place. I suppose their riders are no use on the climbs anyway, so Richie may as well burn all his helpers up on the flat. Doesn't look good for him on the longer multi climb stages in the Alps though.

Martin looked good too. Shame for Thomas, but anyone wondering why he doesn't get a shot at leading the team, well he was led up as much as Froome but didn't have anything to give at the end.

 

[Stat Brother]

I suppose their riders are no use on the climbs anyway, so Richie may as well burn all his helpers up on the flat. Doesn't look good for him on the longer multi climb stages in the Alps though.

Martin looked good too.

Much the same can be said of Martin and to a slightly lesser extent Aru.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Much the same can be said of Martin and to a slightly lesser extent Aru.

We live in hope though, otherwise it's good night vienna already...

 

[Stat Brother]

Super Eddie S came in 38th, 2'26 behind.

Considerably better than I thought!

 

[Pantani]

Super Eddie S came in 38th, 2'26 behind.

Considerably better than I thought!

Talansky 21st @1:13

Though there is not much kudos predicted someone to beat Super Eddie's Taxi.

 

[Triggaaar]

Maybe I'm on my own here in thinking the DQ was correct for Sagan. The group all moved from left to right, and jumping on any wheel that comes past when it's right by the barrier is often going to lead to a crash. The sprinters need to know that's not a risk they should take. What's even more annoying is that I think Cav would have won the stage.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Maybe I'm on my own here in thinking the DQ was correct for Sagan. The group all moved from left to right, and jumping on any wheel that comes past when it's right by the barrier is often going to lead to a crash. The sprinters need to know that's not a risk they should take. What's even more annoying is that I think Cav would have won the stage.

No, I am with you on both points.

 

[Triggaaar]

No, I am with you on both points.

Not that I want Sagan out of the tour, it's going to be a lot less fun without him. I'm quite fed up about the whole thing.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Maybe I'm on my own here in thinking the DQ was correct for Sagan. The group all moved from left to right, and jumping on any wheel that comes past when it's right by the barrier is often going to lead to a crash. The sprinters need to know that's not a risk they should take. What's even more annoying is that I think Cav would have won the stage.

No, I am with you on both points.

The question isn't whether Sagan was at fault, it's whether it was worthy of a DQ? We've seen Cav himself cause crashes worse than that. Had Sagan done that randomly, then perhaps yes, but the whole bunch moves dramatically left to right. Cav does genuinely lose Damare's wheel because his gap got smaller before Sagan got there, all Sagan does is see Damare start to go right to left and makes for his wheel. He hasn't intentionally taken Cav out or deliberately done it which is the citation from the judges. He was at fault, but the DSQ is well over board considering the crashes we see at Le Tour.

As for Cav winning it, I think he was already beaten and got himself into an awkward spot that he wasn't going to win from, he'd have never got round from where he was.

I'm quite fed up about the whole thing.

Why did you bring it back up again?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The question isn't whether Sagan was at fault, it's whether it was worthy of a DQ? We've seen Cav himself cause crashes worse than that. Had Sagan done that randomly, then perhaps yes, but the whole bunch moves dramatically left to right. Cav does genuinely lose Damare's wheel because his gap got smaller before Sagan got there, all Sagan does is see Damare start to go right to left and makes for his wheel. He hasn't intentionally taken Cav out or deliberately done it which is the citation from the judges. He was at fault, but the DSQ is well over board considering the crashes we see at Le Tour.

As for Cav winning it, I think he was already beaten and got himself into an awkward spot that he wasn't going to win from, he'd have never got round from where he was.



Why did you bring it back up again?

I think Cav was in the perfect position, and had it in the bag.

As for Sagan, I am a fan of his, and sad to see him go. But I think his riding in this instance was reckless, dangerously so. He had a lot of space around him on both sides when he careered over and took Cav out. He could have avoided this, in my opinion, and didn't, for whatever reason.

 

[Triggaaar]

The question isn't whether Sagan was at fault, it's whether it was worthy of a DQ?

Understood. But if riders aren't punished, what's to stop them riding carelessly?

As for Cav winning it, I think he was already beaten and got himself into an awkward spot that he wasn't going to win from, he'd have never got round from where he was.

I'd have to look again to see if he was slowing, but he was going way faster than Sagan (who finished second) and had Démare's wheel, which (particularly given the final result) was a pretty good place to be.

Why did you bring it back up again?

I was just offering an alternative opinion. Sorry, had you forgotten about Segan and Cav already?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I was just offering an alternative opinion. Sorry, had you forgotten about Segan and Cav already?

No, happy to discuss it, you said 'I'm fed up with the whole thing', just wondered why you'd say that after starting it back up again?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think Cav was in the perfect position, and had it in the bag.

As for Sagan, I am a fan of his, and sad to see him go. But I think his riding in this instance was reckless, dangerously so. He had a lot of space around him on both sides when he careered over and took Cav out. He could have avoided this, in my opinion, and didn't, for whatever reason.

I'm not so sure. From the overhead a bit further back, Damare goes passed Sagan at some speed already quite tight toward the barrier, I think this surprises Sagan who speeds up and catches Bouhanni who he's going to have to get around, and who has their moment with Griepel. I don't think he has any idea Cav is following Damare and makes a snap decision to pass Bouhanni around to the right, it looks like there's more space as Bouhanni also swerves. You can't keep your line if you need to go around someone ahead. That's why I don't think there was any intent, and you say had space on both sides, but he couldn't have gone round Bouhanni to the left I don't think. We'll have to agree to disagree on it being reckless enough to be a DSQ.


http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/twitter/?title=Overhead+angle+of+the+Stage+4+finish&dashboard=tour-de-france&id=LeTour/status/882260461185642496&yr=2017

 

[Stat Brother]

Maybe I'm on my own here in thinking the DQ was correct for Sagan. The group all moved from left to right, and jumping on any wheel that comes past when it's right by the barrier is often going to lead to a crash. The sprinters need to know that's not a risk they should take. What's even more annoying is that I think Cav would have won the stage.

I can't really add to Bold's description.

Esp when you consider a DQ isn't like a red card or sin bin, this is pro cycling you didn't get DQ'ed for riding around with a needle stuck in your arm.
The only way to get slung off the tour is be premeditated violence towards a fellow rider, or being scared of flying.

The sprint needs to be looked at both ways, actual speed and slo mo, neither of which warrant a DQ.

Actual speed - I think the sprint was a mess from start to finish.
Demare's deviation caused enough trouble to seriously consider demotion.
Cav followed Demare into the gutter putting himself in a reckless position, he was bouncing around on, I assume, drains.
The moment Demare left that side, he cut across Boohoo and Cav lost his wheel, opening up clear air, and 'eventually' Kristoff's wheel, for Sagan.
Sagan was in the optimum position to take advantage.
That all happened in less than 3 seconds.

Frame by frame - This completely takes Sagan's elbow out of the equation.
Cav was already on his way down, quite possibly after knocking his 'bars into Sagan's.
Sagan was in front of Cav, possibly using his elbow came out to steady himself.


I appreciate this reads like a 'Sagan is completely innocent' post.
It isn't, because he isn't.

But what he's guilty of is riding in a manner that looks awful, dangerous and somewhat of a liability.
All of which are worthy of the initial penalty imposed and a 'if you even breath out of place' warning.

To me the final decision reeks of 'nobody is bigger than the Tour'.

 

[1066familyman]

 

[Stat Brother]

You can now afford to buy a nice new set of 25mm'ers to fit snugly (and safely) on your new wheels.

 

[1066familyman]

You can now afford to buy a nice new set of 25mm'ers to fit snugly (and safely) on your new wheels.

Guess who hasn't even had a stage bet yet in this Tour. I'm just making do feeding off the novelty told you so scraps for now

I'm struggling getting into this year's Tour route to be honest. I didn't even bother entering a fantasy team either. If I did have a team then Aru would have been my first name on the team sheet here. I'm still amazed I got 22/1 for him post Dauphine for a podium spot ( not that I'm counting chickens as today's stage and Bardet's descending on Mont Chat might be my only highlights yet)

 

[Triggaaar]

No, happy to discuss it, you said 'I'm fed up with the whole thing', just wondered why you'd say that after starting it back up again?

I'm fed up that Cav and Segan are out of the tour, I'm not fed up that it's being discussed. Starting it up again isn't making me more fed up than I already am.