The Official 102nd Tour de France, thread.

[Motogull]

[MENTION=3347]Horton's halftime iceberg[/MENTION], that's one hell of a day out you slipped in!

 

[Brighton Mod]

And he picked him for the London Olympic team after his conviction. This was one if the reasons he nearly gave it up though.

Miller to me is one of the reasons why you can never trust anyone until the tests/passports becomes fully reliable.

Brailsford lobbied for Miller to compete in the Olympics, full well knowing his history, conversely he tacitly jettisoned Sean Yates because of association with Armstong. Brailsford failed to see and then back Froome on two Grand Tours, he is a political operator and not to be trusted. I fear that one day he will be found out.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I don't see how releasing all the information will help Froome.

It would appear that minds are already made up, and everything published will prove what people want to prove.


He's on a hiding to nothing.
It's the caliber of the people doing the flogging that make this so distasteful.

FWIW I believe in Team Sky, Froome & G (way back at the start of this thread I commented I didn't think I'd ever seen G look so thin) but I'll not be defending the barricades on their behalf.

They have plenty of evidence on their side, not least the lack of positives elsewhere.
I hope, in time, that becomes the norm it's just really sad for Chris and Sky they've picked exactly the wrong moment in time to be dominant at cycling.

It a rare luxury to pick your time, these things just sometimes happen and you have to run witt it.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

[MENTION=3347]Horton's halftime iceberg[/MENTION], that's one hell of a day out you slipped in!

Epic, when we watch the corps fly by us on the side of the road now, you always relive it, what a ground hog day that would be

Brailsford lobbied for Miller to compete in the Olympics, full well knowing his history, conversely he tacitly jettisoned Sean Yates because of association with Armstong. Brailsford failed to see and then back Froome on two Grand Tours, he is a political operator and not to be trusted. I fear that one day he will be found out.

But found out for what, he has no record of old school practices, I don't think any of his track cyclists have ever tested positive, the few doping associates with his road teams have been inherited or caught and instantly disassociated like Tiernan Locke. Our observations of him are the reverse of a political operator, he is open and friendly, willing to talk to everyone. Ruthless over the riders numbers, if you can't follow the programme you don't get to ride. Like Wiggo in the hour record you only do it if you can win it. This years tour has been set up for Quintana however SKY have so far turned other parts of the course to their advantage.

I think the example of riders having their own camper vans is a good example of challenging the old regime, I mean you take millionaire riders and make them sleep on the floor of a designated 1 star hotel without air con. Its almost like the ASO want to make it so hard you are pushed to reach for illegal measures to survive, as if the course isn't hard enough in itself.

Has anyone on here ever read his book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mastermind-Brailsford-Reinvented-Minutes-Shorts-ebook/dp/B00D9G3NX8

 

[Stat Brother]

Oh god another day, another Matt Rendell love in.

This time with Jalabert in his sights.

Matt needs to get into politics, I'd love to see a political leader think they can fob MR off with a nothing answer.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Epic, when we watch the corps fly by us on the side of the road now, you always relive it, what a ground hog day that would be



But found out for what, he has no record of old school practices, I don't think any of his track cyclists have ever tested positive, the few doping associates with his road teams have been inherited or caught and instantly disassociated like Tiernan Locke. Our observations of him are the reverse of a political operator, he is open and friendly, willing to talk to everyone. Ruthless over the riders numbers, if you can't follow the programme you don't get to ride. Like Wiggo in the hour record you only do it if you can win it. This years tour has been set up for Quintana however SKY have so far turned other parts of the course to their advantage.

I think the example of riders having their own camper vans is a good example of challenging the old regime, I mean you take millionaire riders and make them sleep on the floor of a designated 1 star hotel without air con. Its almost like the ASO want to make it so hard you are pushed to reach for illegal measures to survive, as if the course isn't hard enough in itself.

Has anyone on here ever read his book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mastermind-Brailsford-Reinvented-Minutes-Shorts-ebook/dp/B00D9G3NX8

Well, he does have different ideas and the conversion of Bradley Wiggins from time triallist and pursuit man to climber was truly epic, had it been Cancellara or Tony Martin we would have all been shouting dope cheat. Rob Hayles tested positive at a World Cup event whilst riding for GB. When Brailsford was interviewed on television that day he looked terrified. Sky are the big team in the bunch now and Brian Cookson now head of the UCI, had these roles gone to Belgians, Frenchmen, Spanniards or Italians we would be very sceptical.
I don't want a bad press release, but somehow can't believe that all is what it seems.

 

[Triggaaar]

We followed the tour for years, around the Pyrenees', Alps, Jura, time trials, sprint stages, you named it, if it was TDF and moved we went. One by one our favourite riders were caught doping, I followed the line that riders like Lance and Big Mig had unique physiological features, however it became apparent that Lance was beating dopers hand down, but still denying and explaining away that it was the cancer and subsequent treatment that made him this climber and TT rider able to perform.

I'd like to know what you think now - why you were so believing. Because it's easy for me to be a smart arse know it all, but I thought everyone knew Lance et al were doping. Was it that you just loved cycling so much that you didn't want it all to be a sham? Which, IMO, would be a perfectly reasonable explanation. If you love a sport enough to follow it everywhere, the last thing you want to believe is that it's all a load of shit (which, IMO, it was).

I watched the Froome documentary the other night, again we have the medical condition bilharzia

Yeah I saw that, I can see how that could look bad. But for that to be a cover up means the whole of British cycling is bent.

too us British Track Cycling looks very clean, and Brailsford, who nearly walked away from cycling in 2004 as did Wiggens due to all the doping, has the clearest anti doping stance in cycling.

So would Brailsford risk all that he has set in motion, olympics, TDF, clean British cycling by doing what all the old school teams have done for years. Froome seems on the edge of what is achievable, I have to trust that it is done by British Cyclings/Team SKYs marginal gains programmes

It's this that I believe mostly. I don't know Chris, and if he, as a normal human, couldn't achieve his goal without cheating, then I'd expect him to cheat to be perfectly honest. It's what humans do. But when I watch teams like Britain and Australia compete indoors, I see well organised teams, not teams of super-humans, and my gut feeling is that they're not doping. And when I look at Sky, I see a team that is much more focused and professional than the opposition. It's always Froome who's surrounded by team mates, not Nibali et al.

the french genuinely believe they use illegal wheels and motors inside the bikes

That's just weird.

Froome and G have riden what appears to be head and shoulders above all his opponents, on Ventoux he put out an incredible 120 second burst of Watts and his heart rate stays at 160, fairly low. Nibbli who is often seen as clean on his Watt records that are analysed, managed about 60 seconds of this on the much shorter Mur de Bretanage when he was clearly not good/ill.

Maybe I'm just being naive, but I don't think Froome has been that amazing (the best, but not in a shocking way). Nibali seems out of sorts, and Quintana often isn't far off, and I don't think he's been as well supported (Movistar have been good, but not as good as Sky), and he's still young.

 

[Stat Brother]

For me [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] I completely bought the Lance myth, hook line and sinker.

What did for Lance, in my eyes, was everybody else.

I have no idea which of his competitors, getting popped, was the one that had me thinking 'right that's enough now, if everybody else is dirty, you can't be clean', but I certainly had that moment.
I definitely wasn't the first or last fan to wake up to the real world but at the time The Cult of Lance was easy to buy into.

That in turn is what's currently reassuring me re Froome and Sky.
I believe the testing policy is pretty good, all things considered.
I believe the UCI is now in a better, less FIFAery, place.
Until such time as the next EPO is available (assuming it isn't already) I believe cheats are likely to get caught.

Taking Contador as a pre and post ban example.
His abilities on a bike are clearly compromised now, he's no longer riding 'unbelievably'.
The fact that Contador can't shake off the likes of Tony Gallopin, speaks volumes to me.
Along with Froome only being a couple of minutes up the road.

 

[Stat Brother]

Stage 15 result

1 André Greipel (Ger) Lotto Soudal 3:56:35
2 John Degenkolb (Ger) Team Giant-Alpecin
3 Alexander Kristoff (Nor) Team Katusha
4 Peter Sagan (Svk) Tinkoff-Saxo
5 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) MTN - Qhubeka
6 Ramunas Navardauskas (Ltu) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team
7 Christophe Laporte (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits
8 Michael Matthews (Aus) Orica GreenEdge

Points classification

1 Peter Sagan (Svk) Tinkoff-Saxo 360 pts
2 André Greipel (Ger) Lotto Soudal 316
3 John Degenkolb (Ger) Team Giant-Alpecin 264
4 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Etixx - Quick-Step 192

 

[1066familyman]

All I know for sure is that I desperately want rain on that descent tomorrow and three riders in particular to then make a race of it. Probably won't happen, but I can wish I suppose.

 

[Triggaaar]

Stage 15 result

1 André Greipel (Ger) Lotto Soudal 3:56:35

Oh you ****ing bast*ard. I was watching live until 60km to go, then friends came round. Waiting to watch the rest of the recording, so popped on here. Sagan etc are currently 1:43 is ahead, and nearly at the top of the climb, I thought they'd make it. I guess not

 

[1066familyman]

Oh you ****ing bast*ard. I was watching live until 60km to go, then friends came round. Waiting to watch the rest of the recording, so popped on here. Sagan etc are currently 1:43 is ahead, and nearly at the top of the climb, I thought they'd make it. I guess not

You honestly thought they'd make it with Cav being the only sprinter dropped from the peloton? Blimey, I thought I was the one doing all the crap calling here.

On that note, do not bet on any of the following tomorrow, because they're my tips and so guaranteed to fail.

Bardet
Barguil
Chavanel

 

[Triggaaar]

You honestly thought they'd make it with Cav being the only sprinter dropped from the peloton? Blimey, I thought I was the one doing all the crap calling here.

Yeah I wasn't paying a lot of attention. As it was, the 9 (ish) in the breakaway weren't putting much effort in.

 

[Stat Brother]

Oh you ****ing bast*ard. I was watching live until 60km to go, then friends came round. Waiting to watch the rest of the recording, so popped on here. Sagan etc are currently 1:43 is ahead, and nearly at the top of the climb, I thought they'd make it. I guess not

2 things Trig:-

1 - It's stage 15 you know the rules, by now.

B - One other thing re Lance, this was the most powerful link between the riders and the public:-

 

[Triggaaar]

It's stage 15 you know the rules, by now.

I know, I wouldn't click on the thread until I'd seen the stage, but you'd quoted my post so I was just checking my notification etc. I know it was my fault, it was just irritating. Amazing how close Sagan got in the end, despite being in that breakaway. He's probably put more energy into this tour than Froome.

B - One other thing re Lance, this was the most powerful link between the riders and the public:-

Do you mean that he was endorsed by Phil? Don't underestimate the power of denial (no, not the river). Even when it should have been obvious Lance was cheating, people believed him because they didn't want to accept the truth. Of course Armstrong lied, what else was he supposed to do.

 

[Stat Brother]

I know, I wouldn't click on the thread until I'd seen the stage, but you'd quoted my post so I was just checking my notification etc. I know it was my fault, it was just irritating. Amazing how close Sagan got in the end, despite being in that breakaway. He's probably put more energy into this tour than Froome.

Do you mean that he was endorsed by Phil? Don't underestimate the power of denial (no, not the river). Even when it should have been obvious Lance was cheating, people believed him because they didn't want to accept the truth. Of course Armstrong lied, what else was he supposed to do.

Phil was/is/always has been Team Lance.
I'd imagine there's a hell of a lot of truly toe curling, sycophantic, commentary out there long after the truth was known.
I can't begin to imagine the stuff in Lance's pomp.

But crucially that was all we had.
P & P were my idols for so many years.
Like most others on here, I had 3 weeks of cycling to watch each year, from short highlights to the behemoth we have now.
Nobody knew more than P & P, and nobody could possibly do it better.
What they said was gospel.


I believe this was the infamous press conference when Lance was horrific to Paul Kimmage.
Here's an entire room of press people who should be ashamed of their silence that day, and who's that sat on the podium:-

 

[Stat Brother]

Stage 16: Monday July 20, Bourg-de-Péage – Gap 201km





Stats & Facts

2015 is the 23rd time Gap has hosted a stage finish in the Tour.
Of the last seven visits to Gap, the rider wearing the yellow jersey at the end of the stage has gone on to stand on the top step of the podium in Paris.

Prognostication

In theory the break should stick today, but I'm not so sure.
As much as it won't be a bunch sprint, Kristoff, Sagan, Degenkolb etc plus the rejuvenated Mathews will keep today's race tight.
Someone might be able to slip off the front, but as this is the last chance for the rouleurs I think it might be a Milan San Remo type finish with a quality 10-20 strong bunch fighting it out.

 

[Triggaaar]

Phil was/is/always has been Team Lance.

Is he still?

I believe this was the infamous press conference when Lance was horrific to Paul Kimmage.
Here's an entire room of press people who should be ashamed of their silence that day, and who's that sat on the podium:-

Well I can see an empty seat where someone's refused to be a part of the charade It's difficult to comment on the silence of so many. But I will anyway They had their careers to think about, and speaking out didn't seem to go down well. Personally I'd have sung from the rooftops, but then I've always been a bit stupid.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

Is he still?

Well I can see an empty seat where someone's refused to be a part of the charade It's difficult to comment on the silence of so many. But I will anyway They had their careers to think about, and speaking out didn't seem to go down well. Personally I'd have sung from the rooftops, but then I've always been a bit stupid.

Exactly, these are human beings with families they need to provide for. It's the same reason I don't feel too much animosity towards the dopers of the era - I think Lance is reprehensible for his bullying, exploitation of power and ruining of lives, not the doping per se. Imagine your only way to earn a living was on a bike and there's a way to make sure you can continue to do that, and maybe even provide a slightly better life for your kids.

Its obvious why people were tempted, I know I would have been had I continued with cycling as a career path without an alternative.

 

[Triggaaar]

Exactly, these are human beings with families they need to provide for. It's the same reason I don't feel too much animosity towards the dopers of the era

Likewise. It's the UCI I blame the most, they're the ones that should have stopped it.

I think Lance is reprehensible for his bullying, exploitation of power and ruining of lives, not the doping per se.

Yep.

Imagine your only way to earn a living was on a bike and there's a way to make sure you can continue to do that, and maybe even provide a slightly better life for your kids.

It's not that so much as the fact that cyclists knew everyone else was doping, so doping wouldn't be cheating to win, it would just be to put yourself on a level playing field with everyone else.

I love sport and doping completely destroys it for me, so I'm strongly anti doping. As Stat Bro regularly preaches, I imagine there's a lot of cheating in a lot of sport.