The Official 102nd Tour de France, thread.

[1066familyman]

Holy Shit !!!!!!! WTF??

That was ridiculous. I really do not know what to say to that. It was reminiscent of Armstrong or Pantani. As I was watching I started writing down people as they got dropped, mainly because some were ridiculously early.

1. Rui Costa
2. Kwiatkowski These two really are not on it this tour.
3. Kelderman
4. Bardet
5. Martin
6. Talansky
7. Pinot
8. Peraud
9. Nibali
10. Uran
11. Mollema
12. Rodriguez
13. Barguil
14. Yates, A
15. Contador
16. Valverde
19. Rolland
20. TJvG
21. Porte
22. Quintana

That was incredible stuff. Nice of Movistar to do all the work in to the climb again though, helped Sky a lot. The great French hopes were all a bit of a let down, seems last year the real top riders did crash allowing some lesser riders some glory. Impressive stuff from Adam Yates and Warren Barguil though, at 22 and 24 those guys will be GC contenders for a long time. Richie Porte really confuses me, his performance today actually makes me think he is even less of a GC contender (career wise rather than this Tour) than before, he always manages it as a support rider but when he is the boss he messes it up, gets ill has a jour sans etc, etc.

Finally, to put a bit of a dampener on things, and I wish we did not have to say this kind of thing. When Astana did this in the Giro we raised our eyebrows. When a rider destroys the opposition like this, you have to question it, you only have to look at who I have compared this performance to, to see that. Hope it is for real, and Sky should just put Froome's numbers out there, they have been leaked/stolen anyway so why not be entirely transparent?

There's almost no words for it. Perhaps Boardman summed it up best when he said he was depressed by what he'd just seen.

I'm still shaking my head now to be honest. I think it's where Porte and G finished and that list you've compiled there ( I couldn't believe how quickly so many top riders got spat out the back) that's really got me. Mind you, Movistar, FDJ, and Garmin (that was bizarre even by their standards!) have to take a good hard look at themselves with those pulls I think.

 

[Pantani]

Mind you, Movistar, FDJ, and Garmin (that was bizarre even by their standards!) have to take a good hard look at themselves with those pulls I think.

Oh yes, those fools made some terrible tactical decisions. They did make it easier for Sky. I was hoping some of you guys would talk me out of this way of thinking though. I hope Froome struggles tomorrow, I really do, would make all this look a lot more valid.

 

[Stat Brother]

Oh yes, those fools made some terrible tactical decisions. They did make it easier for Sky. I was hoping some of you guys would talk me out of this way of thinking though. I hope Froome struggles tomorrow, I really do, would make all this look a lot more valid.

The problem is Nibali and Contador haven't be 'on it' all tour.
TJ is and will always be easily droppable by extreme attacks.
Quintana was the only unknown, up until today.

Froome struggling would be 'nice' but I think I'd now be more concerned if one of the others suddenly finds their legs.
That really would smell very very Landis.

 

[1066familyman]

The problem is Nibali and Contador haven't be 'on it' all tour.
TJ is and will always be easily droppable by extreme attacks.
Quintana was the only unknown, up until today.

Froome struggling would be 'nice' but I think I'd now be more concerned if one of the others suddenly finds their legs.
That really would smell very very Landis.

They are all very good and valid points, but still doesn't stop the head shaking.

 

[Bombadier Botty]

Quintana wins the oldest looking young rider award!

 

[Bozza]

Hope it is for real, and Sky should just put Froome's numbers out there, they have been leaked/stolen anyway so why not be entirely transparent?

As a novice to this, I don't understand this point.

The distance, elevation and time are all in the public domain - surely from those anyone can work out 'the numbers' relating the performance, or is there something else?

 

[Stat Brother]

They are all very good and valid points, but still doesn't stop the head shaking.

We're clearly all so jaded (like every other old lag) we can't keep seeing the same stuff and not expect to have the rug pulled out from underneath us.

As said it's such a shame, but Team Sky can't be surprised.

 

[Stat Brother]

As a novice to this, I don't understand this point.

The distance, elevation and time are all in the public domain - surely from those anyone can work out 'the numbers' relating the performance, or is there something else?

It's all about the power each rider produces.
The cranks, nowadays are fitted with a power meters, so the riders can gauge their effort according to all the things you mentioned, plus heart rate, cadence and watts.

It's the most complete picture of a riders performance, which obviously is a valuable commodity.

If rider x knows rider y's thresholds, then it would be 'easy' to put rider y in difficulty.

But obviously for us, we'd be able to see if rider x has found a 'superhuman' effort, or has actually peaked perfectly with almost identical numbers to previous important rides.

 

[1066familyman]

We're clearly all so jaded (like every other old lag) we can't keep seeing the same stuff and not expect to have the rug pulled out from underneath us.

As said it's such a shame, but Team Sky can't be surprised.

I just can't get that image of G giving AVV a tap on the back as they crossed the line out of my head.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I just can't get that image of G giving AVV a tap on the back as they crossed the line out of my head.

I just saw that as a bit of recognition of two support riders giving their absolute all for their team leaders. An acknowledgement of Valverde's valiant attacks to try to set Quintana up, and the battle they had up the climb.

Oh dear, it's all getting a bit cynical, perhaps rightly so, I saw that as a bit of class from Thomas.

 

[Stat Brother]

I just can't get that image of G giving AVV a tap on the back as they crossed the line out of my head.

I don't really see a problem.

I'd say G was just happy to be there, knowing it was a job well done.
I imagine he would have done it to anyone from that group with the possible exception of TJ, as that would be taking the piss.

Plus what Bold said.

 

[Stat Brother]

Stage 10 result

1 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 4:22:07
2 Richie Porte (Aus) Team Sky 0:00:59
3 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 0:01:04
4 Robert Gesink (Ned) Team LottoNL-Jumbo 0:01:33
5 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 0:02:01
6 Geraint Thomas (GBr) Team Sky
7 Adam Yates (GBr) Orica GreenEdge 0:02:04
8 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar
9 Tony Gallopin (Fra) Lotto Soudal 0:02:22
10 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 0:02:30
11 Alberto Contador (Spa) Tinkoff-Saxo 0:02:51
12 Rafael Valls Ferri (Spa) Lampre-Merida 0:03:09
13 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana Pro Team
14 Serge Pauwels (Bel) MTN - Qhubeka 0:03:19
15 Warren Barguil (Fra) Team Giant-Alpecin
16 Samuel Sanchez (Spa) BMC Racing Team 0:04:00
17 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Trek Factory Racing 0:04:09
18 Jacques Janse Van Rensburg (RSA) MTN - Qhubeka
19 Eduardo Sepulveda (Arg) Bretagne-Séché Environnement 0:04:16
20 Tanel Kangert (Est) Astana Pro Team 0:04:25
21 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team

General classification after stage 10

1 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 35:56:09
2 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 0:02:52
3 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 0:03:09
4 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 0:04:01
5 Geraint Thomas (GBr) Team Sky 0:04:03
6 Alberto Contador (Spa) Tinkoff-Saxo 0:04:04
7 Tony Gallopin (Fra) Lotto Soudal 0:04:33
8 Robert Gesink (Ned) Team LottoNL-Jumbo 0:04:35
9 Warren Barguil (Fra) Team Giant-Alpecin 0:06:12
10 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:06:57

 

[Pantani]

As a novice to this, I don't understand this point.

The distance, elevation and time are all in the public domain - surely from those anyone can work out 'the numbers' relating the performance, or is there something else?

OK, so for the laymen and women on this thread.

When us cycling geeks mention 'the numbers' we are normally talking about how many watts a rider is putting through the pedals. This is then measured against the rider weight, giving a power versus weight ratio. Normally measured, or analysed as watts per kg ie. power output versus weight of the rider.

You have a point; speed, elevation and distance are all in the public domain. However, aerodynamics are a huge part of cycling, in fact being behind one other cyclist means you are pushing 30% less air. So you will, in theory, be making 30% less effort to maintain the same speed (hence the reference 1066, SB and myself made to the efforts put in by other teams).

So Froome's effort would appear linear from one point of view. We could easily assume, for example, that Froome weighs 70kg, rode at 20kmh up that last climb, the climb was 12.5km long and it took him 40 minutes to climb it. However, we cannot know how much time he spent being shielded from the wind by his team mates and others, how much drag there was on the road (how rough the road surface was), what direction the wind was blowing and things like that. So we can make an approximation of the amount of Watts Froome was putting out but not the exact number. Doping would only add a small percentage to his power output, enough so we cannot be sure from one stage like today. If he kept doing the same that is when alarm bells would really start ringing.

Hope that makes sense I am quite drunk, got home from work and hit the Belgian beers quite hard before dinner.

 

[1066familyman]

I just saw that as a bit of recognition of two support riders giving their absolute all for their team leaders. An acknowledgement of Valverde's valiant attacks to try to set Quintana up, and the battle they had up the climb.

Oh dear, it's all getting a bit cynical, perhaps rightly so, I saw that as a bit of class from Thomas.

I don't really see a problem.

I'd say G was just happy to be there, knowing it was a job well done.
I imagine he would have done it to anyone from that group with the possible exception of TJ, as that would be taking the piss.

Plus what Bold said.

Both fair points.

Perhaps I can have a top up from your glasses because mine is looking rather empty at the moment. Best I leave it there for this evening I think and hope I wake up tomorrow excited to watch a bike race again. The parcours look good for a decent days racing at least.

 

[Pantani]

Both fair points.

Perhaps I can have a top up from your glasses because mine is looking rather empty at the moment. Best I leave it there for this evening I think and hope I wake up tomorrow excited to watch a bike race again. The parcours look good for a decent days racing at least.

Cheer up 1066. I know I also raised doubts, but unless Froome does the same tomorrow I am still willing to believe. The only guys you would really expect to even have a chance of beating Froome were Quintana, Contador and Nibali. It is quite clear that Nibali and Contador are way off form. So 1 minute in to Quintana, who he has put that sort of time in to at the Tour before does not appear that extreme.

As I said it is all about what happens from here. If Froome repeats this sort of thing day after day Armstrong style then we have a problem.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Cheer up 1066. I know I also raised doubts, but unless Froome does the same tomorrow I am still willing to believe. The only guys you would really expect to even have a chance of beating Froome were Quintana, Contador and Nibali. It is quite clear that Nibali and Contador are way off form. So 1 minute in to Quintana, who he has put that sort of time in to at the Tour before does not appear that extreme.

As I said it is all about what happens from here. If Froome repeats this sort of thing day after day Armstrong style then we have a problem.

And a few Belgium beers help too!

 

[pb21]

Well baring accident Froome will walk this race from now on. Nibali's form isn't there and Contador is cooked from the Giro and hasn't been the same since his ban anyway. Quintana is good but not good enough.

The rest of this race will be for second.

 

[Triggaaar]

WTF is it with the highlights show telling you the result before showing the race? I'd have loved to have watched that without knowing what was going to happen.

Well baring accident Froome will walk this race from now on.

I know he's got a good lead, but surely that's a terrible tactic?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I know he's got a good lead, but surely that's a terrible tactic?

 

[Pantani]

And a few Belgium beers help too!

When don't they?