The North / South Divide

[Poojah]

I watched the Secret Millionaire with interest tonight as it featured the town where I was born and raised, Grimsby. It's a place that for all of its flaws and economic limitations I naturally hold very close to my heart. Although I moved away a number of years ago, I still visit regularly as I remain a season ticket holder at Blundell Park.

Tonight's millionaire happened to a chap from Brighton, or at least had made his fortune in Brighton. To paraphrase one of his comments; "I can't believe how bad things are up North compared to down South".

There's obviously an element of generalisation there; the very nature of the programme dictates that he's going to be situated in one of the town's more deprived areas. But, since I've found myself reading this forum on a regular basis I've noticed there does seem to be a general consensus that the social and economic standards of the North are well below that of the South.

I've spent some considerable time living in Northern towns like Grimsby (obviously) and Middlesbrough, and whilst they do have their problem areas there are nevertheless some very, very places to live in close proximity which are accessible to people on salarys unlikely to stretch to a two-bedroom flat in a slightly dubious area of London. Yes, like-for-like salaries will be much lower in the North, but the relationship between earning potential and living costs seems, to me, much less favourable down South.

I've been to some lovely places in the South, but equally I've visited some shítholes which are still comparatively expensive to live in.

I now live in Leeds, and again despite the fact that like every city it has its problem areas, I find it a great place to live. For me it has a great balance of employment opportunities, earning potential and living costs. Having lived here for over five years now, despite having no previous attachment with the place, it's hard to imagine living anywhere else for the forseeable.

My experience is that there are nice places to live in the North, and there are nice places to live in South. Equally, both have their less prosperous and desirable areas.

I don't for a second want to turn this into an argument about which half of the country is better. I'm just interested to get a Southern perspective of the North, and if it's not all that favourable, why that's the case.

(This is a bit long-winded, innit. Sorry. I've only got 2 GCSE's...)

 

[Notters]

The main reason I couldn't consider moving northward again is the Albion. The weather IS also considerably better and spring comes a couple of weeks earlier.

 

[Goring Gull]

I moved to the North (Huddersfield) about 8 years ago. And i love it people are friendly i've made some great friend there is no pretencious ness and i will be buyinga four bedroom detached house in the next couple of months for £170K in a decent area of town. Don't get me wrong the south is nice but is it really that much better that the majority of young people have no chance of affording ahouse in their home town without parental assistance.

Huddersfield is good and you also have to remember it has Leeds and Manchester two of the best cities in the country on it's doorstep. Whatb has Sussex and Brighton ever produced? Think about it if it wasn't for London and the salaries and media knobheads wanting to live in Brighton and Hove it would be the arshole of the UK.
Sussex bron and bred but i admit unless you are going to earn at least 70k a year per couple forget ever buying anywhere. Welcome to Brighton

 

[Lord Bracknell]

You can buy a five bedroomed house in Middlesbrough for less than £100,000.

Middlesbrough properties. Find 5 bedroom property for sale in Middlesbrough, Cleveland

 

[Foolg]

I've recently moved to Sheffield, and love it up here, early days but could easily see myself staying up here after I finish my degree. You do have the less desirable areas but where doesn't. Sheffield was the location for a 'Secret Millionaire' episode recently, the Gleadless Valley estate, and to me it looked no worse than parts of Moulscoombe, especially when considering the emphasis Channel 4 place upon the negative aspects. Travel to some of the nicest places in the south, and all have dodgy areas, the Blackbird Leys estate in Oxford, numerous parts of London, amongst others.

I've not seen any extreme poverty up here, from a judgemental point of view you see far more working class people about than you would if walking through Brighton, but if you travelled along the coast to Portsmouth i bet you'd get the same thing. There's some lovely areas up here, where I am now is up there with the nicer bits of Brighton, and so too is Sheffield city center, and would also throw Leeds in there too. Yes, its A TAD colder, and gets darker 15 minutes or so earlier, but whats that to anyone in all fairness.

I love it up here, oh, and £1.90 a pint, who'd complain.

 

[Kazenga <3]

Housing prices are stupidly more favourable in the North. However I wouldn't consider living up there- too many northerners.

 

[8ace]

Do any houses in the north have inside toliets?

 

[Triggaaar]

You need to take into account that it's reet grim up north

 

[Southern Scouse]

I have not lived in Littlehampton for nearly 25 years as I have spent most of that time abroad and in the Midlands/North. However, until this day the wife and kids still wonder why as I do a right on the A24 at the Findon roundabout, up the hill into the valley and see the view tears literally start to flow.
Doesn't matter wherever I end up, it will always be home.

 

[Brovion]

I went to all the northern and midlands 'shitholes' back in the 1970s and early 1980s, mainly as a football fan. This was just at the end of their existence as the beating hearts of British heavy industry and there was grime, desolation, decay and general sense of depression and 'the end'. In those days I would have said the North/South divide was as big as it ever was - Croydon looked like New York in comparison (I quite like Croydon anyway but that's another issue) and Sussex was simply a leafy paradise, the sort of place good Northerners would go to when they died.

With the exception of Manchester (and Grimsby) I've been back to all of them in the last ten years or so and the amount of regeneration is remarkable. In a very short time they've nearly all managed to re-invent themselves as modern cities and have either removed most of the traces of their industrial past or have cleaned it up incorporated it as part of the city's 'heritage'. I'm not saying this process is complete by any means and EVERY city is going to have its dodgy areas and bits that need replacing, but I recently wandered round Leeds and went "Wow!"

So I would say there is far less of a North/South divide and the biggest gap is between urban and rural areas. As a general rule the rural areas of Britain (north and south) are quite 'nice' and full of twee market towns, whereas the cities, by their very nature, have more of a concentration of 'grot' - both buildings and people.

 

[zfleas]

Do you have electricity up there yet?

 

[Gwylan]

I went to all the northern and midlands 'shitholes' back in the 1970s and early 1980s, mainly as a football fan. This was just at the end of their existence as the beating hearts of British heavy industry and there was grime, desolation, decay and general sense of depression and 'the end'. In those days I would have said the North/South divide was as big as it ever was - Croydon looked like New York in comparison (I quite like Croydon anyway but that's another issue) and Sussex was simply a leafy paradise, the sort of place good Northerners would go to when they died.

With the exception of Manchester (and Grimsby) I've been back to all of them in the last ten years or so and the amount of regeneration is remarkable. In a very short time they've nearly all managed to re-invent themselves as modern cities and have either removed most of the traces of their industrial past or have cleaned it up incorporated it as part of the city's 'heritage'. I'm not saying this process is complete by any means and EVERY city is going to have its dodgy areas and bits that need replacing, but I recently wandered round Leeds and went "Wow!"

So I would say there is far less of a North/South divide and the biggest gap is between urban and rural areas. As a general rule the rural areas of Britain (north and south) are quite 'nice' and full of twee market towns, whereas the cities, by their very nature, have more of a concentration of 'grot' - both buildings and people.

This is spot on. I applied to five northern universities when I filled in my UCCA form purely to experience a different kind of life - and in the mid-70s, the north was like a different country.
Brovion's right: there are lovely (and expensive) spots in the north of England and there are run-down areas in the south. Where I would disagree is that this is new - even back in the 70s there were some twee country villages about. I remember going to Hebden Bridge in the late 70s and it was liking going to Hampstead.
But the bigger cities have definitely learned to exploit their heritage - the sadness is, that's all many of them have got. When I lived in Bradford, there were still at least a dozen textile mills in operation, they're now all closed down and the city has been left with very little - the place is a shadow of the place it used to be.

 

[mikeyjh]

I would love to be back in Derbyshire, but days like today make me happy that I live in the flat south-east where it don't snow much....

brrrrrr Flashbarstores.co.uk

 

[Brovion]

This is spot on. I applied to five northern universities when I filled in my UCCA form purely to experience a different kind of life - and in the mid-70s, the north was like a different country.
Brovion's right: there are lovely (and expensive) spots in the north of England and there are run-down areas in the south. Where I would disagree is that this is new - even back in the 70s there were some twee country villages about. I remember going to Hebden Bridge in the late 70s and it was liking going to Hampstead.
But the bigger cities have definitely learned to exploit their heritage - the sadness is, that's all many of them have got. When I lived in Bradford, there were still at least a dozen textile mills in operation, they're now all closed down and the city has been left with very little - the place is a shadow of the place it used to be.

Oh yeah, I didn't say it was 'new', there were always nice areas - even in Yorkshire! And Cheshire was always Surrey with funny accents. My point was more I feel that with the re-generation of northern cities the urban/rural divide is now bigger than the north/south one.

 

[Mackenzie]

I watched the Secret Millionaire with interest tonight as it featured the town where I was born and raised, Grimsby. It's a place that for all of its flaws and economic limitations I naturally hold very close to my heart. Although I moved away a number of years ago, I still visit regularly as I remain a season ticket holder at Blundell Park.

Tonight's millionaire happened to a chap from Brighton, or at least had made his fortune in Brighton. To paraphrase one of his comments; "I can't believe how bad things are up North compared to down South".

There's obviously an element of generalisation there; the very nature of the programme dictates that he's going to be situated in one of the town's more deprived areas. But, since I've found myself reading this forum on a regular basis I've noticed there does seem to be a general consensus that the social and economic standards of the North are well below that of the South.

I've spent some considerable time living in Northern towns like Grimsby (obviously) and Middlesbrough, and whilst they do have their problem areas there are nevertheless some very, very places to live in close proximity which are accessible to people on salarys unlikely to stretch to a two-bedroom flat in a slightly dubious area of London. Yes, like-for-like salaries will be much lower in the North, but the relationship between earning potential and living costs seems, to me, much less favourable down South.

I've been to some lovely places in the South, but equally I've visited some shítholes which are still comparatively expensive to live in.

I now live in Leeds, and again despite the fact that like every city it has its problem areas, I find it a great place to live. For me it has a great balance of employment opportunities, earning potential and living costs. Having lived here for over five years now, despite having no previous attachment with the place, it's hard to imagine living anywhere else for the forseeable.

My experience is that there are nice places to live in the North, and there are nice places to live in South. Equally, both have their less prosperous and desirable areas.

I don't for a second want to turn this into an argument about which half of the country is better. I'm just interested to get a Southern perspective of the North, and if it's not all that favourable, why that's the case.

(This is a bit long-winded, innit. Sorry. I've only got 2 GCSE's...)

My grandma was from Horton-Le_Clay near Grimsby, so I know the area quite well. Like everywhere there are good and bad bits, but I would say that 'generally' there is a greater sense of community and friendliness the further north you travel....although it is not unknown in Brighton either.

 

[Springal]

Interesting one. I think everywhere has 'grim' area, but in my experience (travel a lot for work, and also have an office in part of Yorkshire) the grim parts in a lot of northern cities are very grim! Some of the very inner bits of these cities are nice, but prices for housing there is on parr with anywhere down here!

I'd not move up north unless I was suitably rewarded, but knowing the difference in our companies staff wages between 'north' and 'south', that is unlikely to happen

 

[Tricky Dicky]

When we're talking about "The North", you mean somewhere up near Hassocks, yes ? I thought if you went any further than that you just sort of fell off the earth. Those Hassocks northerners are a bit wierd though.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Eh, I lived in't Bolton tha' knows for 3 months ( don's Fred Dibnah style flat cap ), them's northeners ah great.

Aye, rent was cheap, so was 'tut Morissons. Them soft southeners in't London never had 'tut Nat Lofthouse neither.

Oh, North - South devide 'tha says, well up there 'Corrie is like religion innit, can't be 'avin any of that daft cockney rubbish on t'other side.

 

[Deleted member 18477]

dirty nothern b*sta*ds comes to mind...

such a southern stereotypical phrase which i still bloody love lol!

p.s. i don't want gravy with my f-ing chips! thats a good enough reason to stay down south & eastenders is better than corrie!

 

[GYM]

Do any houses in the north have inside toliets?

Mines being installed in the new year. Although without indoor plumbing it is basically just a hole with a seat.