[Football] The “No Relegation” debate

[junior]

Just end the season. Either null and void, or finish it as it was. Don't spend effort trying to find a way for it to re-start, spend that effort working out the best way to appease those that will suffer.

I can't really be arsed with football at the moment.

 

[Palacefinder General]

The only option that makes sense to me is to bin the season, no relegation, but promote the top 2 in all other leagues, then relegate an extra club over the next 2 seasons.

I can guarantee that if it were Brighton and not Fulham six points off an automatic Championship promotion place you wouldn’t be saying that. With all due respect, a ridiculous post.

 

[pb21]

The changes being proposed are getting sillier by the day.

In additional to neutral grounds, 5 subs, less than 90 minutes, the latest is no team goal celebrations, no spitting, no sharing of water bottles, but the biggest difference is adding to the 25 man squad that was declared in January, providing the players are at the club already, this allowing long term injured players back.

The integrity of the competition is therefore being further diluted so is relegation valid in such circumstances.

I understand the TV requirements, but if the TV companies insist on relegation to still pay the money to the clubs, then other than behind doors (Government requirement) everything must stay the same,

I essentially agree with this.

The game, when it returns, has to be close to what it was for the individual results of the remaining matches to be considered equivalent to what they were, in order for the final overall result to be considered valid. IMO the proposals are veering too far towards a different game being played, such that the final result would not be valid.

If the game starts as planned, fine, but the results should be irrelevant IMO.

 

[Arthur]

Once again, though, why do some feel the need to demonise football for exploring the ways in which its "business" can proceed?

Almost every business in the country will be planning for different scenarios that enables them to resume their business as soon as is safely practicable, and in most cases it's not for charity, it's for cold, hard cash.

In short, I'm really fed up with all the "it's all about the money" bollocks that a lot of people are spouting, as if football is the only business that has any interest at all in money.

Of course it is. Wasn't demonising it at all. Football needs to re-start so the club as a business can start making money again. Given who my employer is I'm desperate for football and all other sports to restart else I'll be out of a job if this goes on much longer.

Barber said last week on the 1901 call that there was £3/4b in the pot for television revenue to be spread amongst the 20 clubs. He also went on to say the club had budgeted to make a loss again this year it was now going to make an even more significant one. One can only assume should the league not restart it going to make a massive one.

Genuinely worry times for all businesses, football is no exception.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Maybe reschedule the remaining fixtures so our 5 games are in a row and then travel around the country in a round trip completing all the away fixtures? Some loss of integrity but we still have the home advantages and it must reduce the risk somewhat?

 

[Glawstergull]

Once again, though, why do some feel the need to demonise football for exploring the ways in which its "business" can proceed?

Almost every business in the country will be planning for different scenarios that enables them to resume their business as soon as is safely practicable, and in most cases it's not for charity, it's for cold, hard cash.

In short, I'm really fed up with all the "it's all about the money" bollocks that a lot of people are spouting, as if football is the only business that has any interest at all in money.

Yes my business is all about the money as well.

BUT all of my staff have had to take a pay cut in light of a dramatic drop in income. this is also a long term situation that wont be resolved any time soon(Aircraft and Oilfield related markets).

We are not sitting on our arses denying that the world has changed and picking what colour the next Ferrari might be.

The sponsorship deals by companies selling goods that my staff can no longer afford will drop. The TV revenue will therefore drop. Therefore the model of crazy salaries and Transfer fees will HAVE to change.

 

[Swansman]

If "No Relegation" was enforced I'm not convinced I'd even watch. It would then feel very much akin to heavily corporate pre-season friendlies, purely being played to meet financial and contractual obligations.

Disagree heavily. If there was a "no relegation" thing I'm 100% sure Potter would play with a lot of young players for different reasons (including health probably tbh). It would be a great opportunity to see players like Roberts, Lamptey, Cochrane, Richards, Mac Allister, Alzate, Gwargis, Connolly etc getting some games.

I still think the season should go null and void, but not because it would be boring to watch.

 

[Bozza]

Of course it is. Wasn't demonising it at all. Football needs to re-start so the club as a business can start making money again. Given who my employer is I'm desperate for football and all other sports to restart else I'll be out of a job if this goes on much longer.

Barber said last week on the 1901 call that there was £3/4b in the pot for television revenue to be spread amongst the 20 clubs. He also went on to say the club had budgeted to make a loss again this year it was now going to make an even more significant one. One can only assume should the league not restart it going to make a massive one.

Genuinely worry times for all businesses, football is no exception.

Sorry - I wasn't saying you were demonising football, but there's a lot of it about, both on here and elsewhere.

 

[FindonFan]

Football seems to have lost perspective/sight of what is important right now, IMO. All sides seem to be hankering after a solution to 'finishing' the season – but whatever the scenario, it's going to be a very different environment to the season that started, so it's not even like for like.

The UK has the highest number of deaths in Europe and the second highest in the world. Aside from those loved ones who have died, thousands of people have lost businesses, income, experiences (non-exams, holidays, etc) and their way of life. Obviously those vary in importance but, for me, bringing back football ranks way below any of them. Who cares if the season is 'finished' at all? What difference is it actually going to make – beyond football fans from different clubs probably taking the piss out of Liverpool for years to come for the title that wasn't?

Clearly life has to begin to start getting back to normal sooner rather than later, but football played either on neutral venues or behind closed doors isn't normal. Bin it off and let the players – and the fans – return when they are safe to do so.

Good post IMHO. None of this bickering about whether, or how, this season should end would be necessary if all national and international championship organisers had included regulations to cover non-completion of their championships. Or taken the the bother to insure themselves against this or similar events curtailing their seasons early.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

The only option that makes sense to me is to bin the season, no relegation, but promote the top 2 in all other leagues, then relegate an extra club over the next 2 seasons.

But why should clubs be rewarded with something that they might not have earned by the end of the season? If, say, the top four teams in a division are separated by a two points, it's very difficult to implement that sort of policy, without it getting all legal and that is extra hassle that no-one (except lawyers who'd make a load of cash) wants or needs. Different in the case of Leeds and West Brom, but very few divisions are as clear cut as that.

 

[Se20]

No.
What’s the point of no relegation ? No one will be interested and it will just be like a pre season .
Up to 30 points to play for, and no team is doomed.
Bring it on .

 

[Palacefinder General]

Different in the case of Leeds and West Brom, but very few divisions are as clear cut as that.

Have you looked at the Championship table? You are aware there are 27 points still to play for? What is clear cut about it?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

No.
What’s the point of no relegation ? No one will be interested and it will just be like a pre season .
Up to 30 points to play for, and no team is doomed.
Bring it on .

I'm not sure that anyone other than the odd poster has suggested behind-closed-doors and no relegation.

 

[Arthur]

The UK has the highest number of deaths in Europe and the second highest in the world. Aside from those loved ones who have died, thousands of people have lost businesses, income, experiences (non-exams, holidays, etc) and their way of life. Obviously those vary in importance but, for me, bringing back football ranks way below any of them. Who cares if the season is 'finished' at all? What difference is it actually going to make – beyond football fans from different clubs probably taking the piss out of Liverpool for years to come for the title that wasn't?

All fair points but a fact you seem to be ignoring the fact that is football is a business. It directly employs something daft like 100k people in this country, I'm sure they care if the season is finished. Then you bring into play all the companies that make a living off the back of the football industry (TV, bookmakers, sports science etc etc) I'm sure all of their employees care if the season is finished.

The bloke who bankrolls our club makes his money from the football industry I'm sure he cares if the season is completed!!

 

[father_and_son]

This with bells on....

There is no point playing whatever, other than to meet contractual obligations and minimise any financial shortfall for the remainder of the season. There must be relegation and if that means we fall victim then so be it, otherwise this season will always be remembered as a failure and possibly a farce.

But it always will be the season that never was. If it's finished BCD or with any other compromise then there will always be a segment of fans, journalists and historians who will discount it as not valid. Liverpool will never be the undisputed champions because we will not be able to finish it the way it was started.

Accept this and any solution is a farce. The sooner the EPL stop pretending otherwise the sooner we find the least bad solution.

 

[Diablo]

I`m not sure why everyone is so concerned about "Neutral Stadiums". It suits all teams who are meant to be playing away and not those meant to be playing at Home. It`s the same for all clubs. Wherein lies the problem ?

 

[sparkie]

But it always will be the season that never was. If it's finished BCD or with any other compromise then there will always be a segment of fans, journalists and historians who will discount it as not valid. Liverpool will never be the undisputed champions because we will not be able to finish it the way it was started.

Accept this and any solution is a farce. The sooner the EPL stop pretending otherwise the sooner we find the least bad solution.

Indeed. I'll be discounting this season as invalid if the integrity goes.

Behind-closed-doors means the integrity is almost all gone. Neutral venues would mean the integrity is totally gone. Might as well draw lots.

That won't change anything practical, but to me 2019/20 would always be "the season that didn't count".

 

[father_and_son]

I`m not sure why everyone is so concerned about "Neutral Stadiums". It suits all teams who are meant to be playing away and not those meant to be playing at Home. It`s the same for all clubs. Wherein lies the problem ?

Because how many home games you have and against who *is* significant and therefore all teams feel some impact but some much greater than others.
The familiarity of home grounds, the rituals of dressing rooms, having WAGs and kids in the crowd and obviously, the greatest factor, the vast majority of fans cheering for you. These are all significant factors and if you play 3/4 of the season with them and 1/4 without, it is inherently unfair and adds to the argument that whatever result we end up with is an invalid one.

 

[Acker79]

Apart from some journo who has suggested this

Who has actually discussed there even being a ‘play on and no relegation’ option.

I saw one tweet from a journalist saying it was suggested at the last premier league meetings, but very swiftly shut down. There was a denial (I think maybe from Barber?) that it was discussed, but to me those two things are not mutually exclusive. A 'can we remove the possibility of relegation?' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' 'No.' is not really a discussion, but also allows for it to have been suggested.

Once again, though, why do some feel the need to demonise football for exploring the ways in which its "business" can proceed?

Almost every business in the country will be planning for different scenarios that enables them to resume their business as soon as is safely practicable, and in most cases it's not for charity, it's for cold, hard cash.

In short, I'm really fed up with all the "it's all about the money" bollocks that a lot of people are spouting, as if football is the only business that has any interest at all in money.

I don't think I'm as upset with the comments as you, but largely agree.

I think the issue for some is a sense that it is more important that football come back than any other business, as if it serves some higher purpose that is more important than making sure it is safe for them to come back. That when we're reading about a failure to adequately test frontline workers, and then hear that football is planning on testing players twice a week so they can get back sooner, potentially add to the load of the NHS when they are already stretched in a way that opening up a theatre doesn't. For many of these people it's probably a case of it's in the media a lot. So much of our media is dedicated to sports - large chunks of newspapers, tv channels focused on sport, or particular sporting competitions. Without actual sport to discuss, all that attention is turned to 'when will sport come back?', and we're not getting much 'when will cinemas re-open?', 'How long until you can pop out and buy a new carpet?' 'Time to start queuing at the travel agents!'.

I think for others it is a sense that football would come back as a business in a way that is vastly different to the business it was before. Pubs can't come back and ply their trade behind closed doors. Fashion stores can't sell their clothes at neutral venues, to make sure no customers turn up. Football isn't coming back for the consumers (the fans! US!), it's coming back for the accountants and money men in the club's offices. It's coming back to avoid contractual entanglements. Sure, there's talk of televised games, but sky and BT aren't in every home, not all homes have a suitable internet connection should they stream on youtube, many fans don't enjoy televised games the way they do watching games live. They're returning with a different product that isn't open to all the people who accessed it before. Most other businesses will be.

 

[Yoda]

End the football season now. No Relegations, but Promote the top two from each division (three from League Two to make up for Bury, and top three invited from National League and let them restructure how they see fit below this).

Parachute payments given the the EFL to pass onto clubs in genuine financial trouble caused by lack of match day income due to CV19.

Following season (if safe to play) - Four down and two up to even things out again.

This is the only logical and fairest way to sort things out.