[Misc] The NHS

[Blue3]

What do you feel you have to preserve what was designed in the 1940s?

The NHS has not stood still in that time!

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The NHS has not stood still in that time!

I think it has.

 

[Blue3]

Your bigoted political position shines through unvarnished here doesn’t it?

Had we not had Brexit the NHS was almost certainly going to be privatised via TTIP, as supported by leader of the Capitalist Free World, the President of the US..............yep, that’s Saint Obama.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...unior-doctors-strike-obama-isds-a7001691.html

I know you will say, “but that doesn’t mean TTIP would cover the venerable old NHS”.

We will never know, but what we do know is that the EU is ideologically for big business and not state assets; moving forward any “trade deal” will be conducted in full scrutiny of MPs in the HOP and our media not in secret as is the MO of the EU..

There you go, another positive of Brexit...............I’m sure I made the same point on the Brexit thread before I was removed from the discussion, so thanks for letting me pop down memory lane.

I am no more a bigot than you are, what is important is that you and I care enough to have a view which sadly is not the case with so many that in the end apathy maybe it's death

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Apathy and the failure of successive Govt's is cause of death.

 

[sir albion]

We should all stump up more money to use it. A fiver or tenner a month, I think most people would be happy to pay it if they knew that money was only going to run the NHS. I would also remove all politics from the NHS completely, there are too many activists, there is too much scaremongering and none of us are getting truth. The NHS should not be used as a tool to win votes for your political party.

Why should we keep pumping more money into the NHS when it's hideously mismanaged?
Surely you're just feeding the corporations and middle men even more money.If it was run properly and was full of full time staff then most would be delighted...but the money will disappear and we'll be back to square one.

The population has soared with millions of migrants paying taxes and OAP's are ageing and need help more...The NHS budget has increased drastically and clearly it's wasting billions and billions on numerous things and even ambulances and staff are coming from private firms that cost a fortune.

It requires common sense in many aspects but sadly it's a cash cow

 

[amexer]

The NHS too political. All MPs are frightened to lose votes so all just say put more money in. Farage even said once people should contribute to insurance scheme. he had to backtrack when accused of giving away NHS. All but those on benefits pay for dentist so dont understand why we dont do same for Doctor appointments. Last time i visited Doctor notice up to say 65 people previous week had not turned up so could start by fining them. Plenty of things that could be done. If we can get a sponsor for our ground why cant Hospital and wards be sponsored

 

[drew]

Firstly I can back up the consultancy pay. My Brother in law was a consultant at the RSCH non clinical. He was earning £650 a day at 1st which they then increased to £700. He was dealing with stores for the trust and the waste amongst different depts was in his words exceptional. His task was to save the trust money as they were haemorrhaging this at a pretty fast rate. In his two years by streamlining the stores and suppliers he saved over 2m. Yes enough to employ a sizable number of new nurses. Guess how much made it to the coal face... zilch. Instead it went to heads of depts who in his words wasted it. He left soon after but not before they offered him another £200 a day to stay. He told them to stuff it as what they said the money he saved would go to employing more Nurses. This is where its wasted

Apologies, as we were talking about the NHS I assumed Nomad was on about clinical consultants. In the case you refer to I'm assuming he was on a contract rather than direct employee. As with any contractors, you have to pay the going rate.

The problem with the RSCH is that it is running at a deficit, as probably most trusts are, therefore any savings, unfortunately, go into reducing that deficit rather than increasing staff numbers!

 

[BensGrandad]

I have nothing but praise for the NHS system and those that work in it. Like everything there could be improvements but generally if you are ill it accommodates you it is those that abuse it that needs sorting out.

 

[sir albion]

Apologies, as we were talking about the NHS I assumed Nomad was on about clinical consultants. In the case you refer to I'm assuming he was on a contract rather than direct employee. As with any contractors, you have to pay the going rate.

The problem with the RSCH is that it is running at a deficit, as probably most trusts are, therefore any savings, unfortunately, go into reducing that deficit rather than increasing staff numbers!

So that's the going rate for consultants £700/1000 a day or for many 5/6 hours and many charge £250 an hour.
If that's the case then the worlds gone bonkers like footballers wages


£175,000 a year for £800 a day but likely to be nearer £200,000
Yet nurses get peanuts

 

[cunning fergus]

Firstly I can back up the consultancy pay. My Brother in law was a consultant at the RSCH non clinical. He was earning £650 a day at 1st which they then increased to £700. He was dealing with stores for the trust and the waste amongst different depts was in his words exceptional. His task was to save the trust money as they were haemorrhaging this at a pretty fast rate. In his two years by streamlining the stores and suppliers he saved over 2m. Yes enough to employ a sizable number of new nurses. Guess how much made it to the coal face... zilch. Instead it went to heads of depts who in his words wasted it. He left soon after but not before they offered him another £200 a day to stay. He told them to stuff it as what they said the money he saved would go to employing more Nurses. This is where its wasted

Two anecdotes on this, firstly I worked with a fella a few years ago, politically very socialist in outlook and I liked him. His wife was a senior nurse (running whole wards) and he was a great defender of the NHS and what it stood for, he was always quoting his missus experience whenever it popped up in discussions.

Then he went quiet about her involvement in the NHS, and quite notably so. It turned out that she had retired from the NHS only to be taken back on a month later earning the same money and whilst taking her pension. Now, I don’t know all the ins and outs, but as he told me, once they get to a certain age, they all do it. He was, in this instance, in his own words a hypocritical Tory *******. This practice I suspect is rife in public service.

In my own experience I am lucky to have only used NHS once due to an accident. Treatment was first class but when I left I was given 3 bags of medicine (including paracetamol. I did not use it all and those that I didn’t still wrapped in the cellophane I attempted to give back. The nurse refused and told me to throw it the bin. Those supporters of the NHS worried about its links to capitalist enterprises should worry about the influence of the big pharmaceutical companies, as I found out with my work colleague in the end everyone is a potential capitalist.

 

[Blue3]

I think it has.

Having worked in it for 35 years I have seen huge improvements which in resent times has been completed not because of political direction but inspite of it, I know many who work many hours above their contracted hours They bring things in to support their work one person I know regularly works an additional 15 hours each week for no pay and brings in stationary reams of printing paper as the paper supplied is such poor quality it constantly gets jammed, they buy staples for the same reason I could go on they do this because they care for the likes of you and me, a concept I am finding so many in this brave new order fail to appreciate

 

[drew]

Why should we keep pumping more money into the NHS when it's hideously mismanaged?
Surely you're just feeding the corporations and middle men even more money.If it was run properly and was full of full time staff then most would be delighted...but the money will disappear and we'll be back to square one.

The population has soared with millions of migrants paying taxes and OAP's are ageing and need help more...The NHS budget has increased drastically and clearly it's wasting billions and billions on numerous things and even ambulances and staff are coming from private firms that cost a fortune.

It requires common sense in many aspects but sadly it's a cash cow

Isn't this an oxymoron? You don't want to pay the going rate for healthcare so the government consistently give a budget where they can never achieve what they need. Then people suggest giving them more money and are accused of throwing money at a bottomless pitt. The solution, throw money at the shareholders of private firms instead.

The solution is to spend more on the NHS whether you like it or not. In 2016 we spent US$ 4,192 per capita compared to that fantastic private system in the US, US$9,892.

The Germans and French, two systems we get compared with, spent 11.3% and 11.5% of their GDP on healthcare. We spent 9.1%. If we increased spending to match the same rate as the Germans and French that would go a long way to resolving problems. Doesn't mean to say you give the NHS a blank cheque. They still need to control spending and decide which areas they need to target.

 

[Hastings gull]

We should all stump up more money to use it. A fiver or tenner a month, I think most people would be happy to pay it if they knew that money was only going to run the NHS. I would also remove all politics from the NHS completely, there are too many activists, there is too much scaremongering and none of us are getting truth. The NHS should not be used as a tool to win votes for your political party.

Sadly, it is going to take more than a fiver each to really make a difference, and this must then be coupled with a genuine attempt to root out waste, but all the while people are spending other people's money, it is not going to happen.

 

[drew]

So that's the going rate for consultants £700/1000 a day or for many 5/6 hours and many charge £250 an hour.
If that's the case then the worlds gone bonkers like footballers wages


£175,000 a year for £800 a day but likely to be nearer £200,000
Yet nurses get peanuts

But that is for outside management consultants that are brought in to do a specific task then leave. Same as if you bring in IT consultants for a new system. You want their expertise then that's what you have to pay!

 

[drew]

You spent a lot of time basically saying nothing.

You can lead a horse etc etc.

 

[Hastings gull]

Isn't this an oxymoron? You don't want to pay the going rate for healthcare so the government consistently give a budget where they can never achieve what they need. Then people suggest giving them more money and are accused of throwing money at a bottomless pitt. The solution, throw money at the shareholders of private firms instead.

The solution is to spend more on the NHS whether you like it or not. In 2016 we spent US$ 4,192 per capita compared to that fantastic private system in the US, US$9,892.

The Germans and French, two systems we get compared with, spent 11.3% and 11.5% of their GDP on healthcare. We spent 9.1%. If we increased spending to match the same rate as the Germans and French that would go a long way to resolving problems. Doesn't mean to say you give the NHS a blank cheque. They still need to control spending and decide which areas they need to target.

Yes, in theory you are quite right -if were all prepared to spend more then things may improve, but of course we in Britain are not, and so we get what we deserve. Yes, you do temper matters by saying that the NHS needs to exercise some control, as of course they should, but I have little faith that this will happen, given that life is such that folk are less fussy about spending cash wisely when it is not their money. Human nature will not change.

 

[drew]

Yes, in theory you are quite right -if were all prepared to spend more then things may improve, but of course we in Britain are not, and so we get what we deserve. Yes, you do temper matters by saying that the NHS needs to exercise some control, as of course they should, but I have little faith that this will happen, given that life is such that folk are less fussy about spending cash wisely when it is not their money. Human nature will not change.

Maybe you're right but we only have the headlines over the last week to show that the private sector isn't great at looking after public money!!!

 

[Hastings gull]

Maybe you're right but we only have the headlines over the last week to show that the private sector isn't great at looking after public money!!!

Yes, I see what you are saying, but if they were looking after their OWN money, it might be different.

 

[darkwolf666]

Just a question, did the NHS ever work, if so why can't we go back to that system.

I have my feeling gs on why it has failed of late, but dont want to voice them.

 

[ewe2]

Add social care to the NHS.
Have a 24 hour doctors surgery at every Hospital
Ruthless baring down on waste...ie drug prices
Increase NIC s
Remove the triple lock.
Allow more general nursing be done by the nurses.
........