[Misc] The NHS

[Sussex Nomad]

It is free at point of use, mainly

No, it is never, ever, ever free.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I challenge anyone here to give an example of any product or service, ever, which has been efficiently delivered by government.

German health care and German railways?

 

[abc]

The NHS is amazing. It just can't do EVERYTHING that EVERYBODY wants anymore. Privatisation isn't the answer because the question is wrong. The NHS isn't broken but we do need to take the politics out of the equation. Then we can celebrate the million and one successes of the NHS happening every day and CONSTRUCTIVELY discuss how to deal with the areas of concern. Every time someone (politician to nsc poster) blames the government, past governments, brexit etc they reveal themselves as someone who doesn't care about the NHS (or the fantastic people working in it) but as someone who just wants to make political capital to support their own political agenda.

 

[Hampster Gull]

No, it is never, ever, ever free.

At one extreme, Someone who never ever works and never pays taxes. It’s free.

For taxpayers the government taxes as they wish and then distributes as they wish. Usually inefficiently.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Why does eg an investment banker need free medical support from the NHS?

Because he contributes a fair proportion of his earnings to National Insurance system. He earns more and contributes more. However, most investment companies offer their staff private healthcare insurance. So he probably pays for an NHS system he doesn't use as often as the average man on the street.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Because he contributes a fair proportion of his earnings to National Insurance system. He earns more and contributes more. However, most investment companies offer their staff private healthcare insurance. So he probably pays for an NHS system he doesn't use as often as the average man on the street.

So why not have the option to opt out?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Because he contributes a fair proportion of his earnings to National Insurance system. He earns more and contributes more. However, most investment companies offer their staff private healthcare insurance. So he probably pays for an NHS system he doesn't use as often as the average man on the street.

I know many very wealthy working people who use the NHS, and some who don’t. But the point is they can.

NI is just another tax, its a pretence that is funds the NHS, it does not come close to it.

In a world where we have an ageing population, we have cut off an easy stream of young immigrants through Brexit and the government can’t afford the promises it made on health then yes, I would expect the wealthy to pay for health care and the free use age to be restricted t other those who need support.

For me use age should be charged, those who need financial support should get it.

 

[Half Time Pies]

Why would you not have multiple service providers competing with one another? We don't have that today, but that's because all healthcare spending is directed through the state to the provider it runs. There is no marketplace. If their was a marketplace, and there was a lack of quality in this or that area, that's an opportunity for someone to come in and provide the quality service which was lacking. Of course by doing so, they would in turn force those providers who were not providing a good service to up their game or lose their ability to compete. If they didn't up their game they would go out of business and bye bye poor quality service provider. That's how the market sorts things out, bad services don't survive, good services thrive.

Because of costs and logistics, its not simple to build and open a hospital. You end up with a monopoly which is one of the situations were the free market tends to fall down.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

NHS seriously needs to split A&E into Timewasters & Emergency.

Ever had the misfortune to have a loved one admitted to hospital by ambulance round about pub closing time on a weekend? I have. I'd estimate it's about 10% Emergency, 90% pissed-up white trash. But I guess that's the Medway Maritime for you. Reflects the demographic of Gillingham and Chatham innit

 

[Sussex Nomad]

NI is just another tax, its a pretence that is funds the NHS, it does not come close to it.

Much like road tax, plenty taken, nothing shown.

 

[jackanada]

A few points. Apologies for any repetition.

The NHS was considered the MOST EFFICIENT health provider in the world, at least prior to Cameron's reorganization to CCGs to increase privatisation.
Seriously MOST EFFICIENT IN THE WORLD, but because it is socialist in nature dogma means the Tories had to change it.

Whatever large numbers are bandied about can we be real about how well funded it actually is? Our level of spending does not match most European countries, and our appalling social care and lax attitude to public health issues puts far greater demands on ours.
A culture of doing the bare minimum causes cost issues elsewhere in hospitals. This is what contracting out inevitably causes.
The issue of agency's creaming multi millions out the NHS for cover nurses and doctors was brilliantly addressed by the NHS. They set up their own agency which charged less, paid more to the staff and returned money to central NHS funds. So the Tories privatised it.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Because of costs and logistics, its not simple to build and open a hospital. You end up with a monopoly which is one of the situations were the free market tends to fall down.

Do you have any idea about the UK GDP? We spunk so much money on shit it's unbelievable.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Much like road tax, plenty taken, nothing shown.

Indeed

 

[dazzer6666]

Because he contributes a fair proportion of his earnings to National Insurance system. He earns more and contributes more. However, most investment companies offer their staff private healthcare insurance. So he probably pays for an NHS system he doesn't use as often as the average man on the street.

Correct. Really not sure how the whole thing works but if the private costs are indicative of what the NHS pays it’s no wonder the service is woefully short of funds.

I saw a consultant about a minor shoulder problem a few weeks ago. I was referred from the GP and am lucky to have BUPA. Initial consultation was within 3 days (10 minutes, £250), MRI scan the following Monday (45 mins, £750), follow up consultation 2 days later (15 mins, £250), guided steroid injection 2 weeks later (only delayed due to Xmas, bill awaited). A family member has been waiting for similar for 4 months so far.........

 

[dingodan]

Because of costs and logistics, its not simple to build and open a hospital. You end up with a monopoly which is one of the situations were the free market tends to fall down.

It's not simple to build and open any business. When a business starts up and builds a factory, it's an outlay, an investment with a view to creating a successful business which will pay those initial costs and more. That's how things work. In a free market you don't end up with a monopoly except where that monopoly has been achieved honestly, because a product or service is very very good and nobody can provide it any better, in which case it's not such a problem. Any time there is a gap in the market, any time a product or service is not being provided at the standard people want and things can be done better, that becomes an opportunity for someone else to come in, meet that need, and reap the rewards. This is how markets work.

The only places you find unhealthy monopolies is where business and government get in bed with one another, corporations are allowed to write the regulations to stifle competition and keep others out and governments do favors for their friends. But that's not a free market, that's government sanctioned corruption.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

I know many very wealthy working people who use the NHS, and some who don’t. But the point is they can.

NI is just another tax, its a pretence that is funds the NHS, it does not come close to it.

In a world where we have an ageing population, we have cut off an easy stream of young immigrants through Brexit and the government can’t afford the promises it made on health then yes, I would expect the wealthy to pay for health care and the free use age to be restricted t other those who need support.

For me use age should be charged, those who need financial support should get it.

The whole point of the NHS is the provision of free healthcare for all. If high earners were restricted from using the service then how could we demand they contribute to the financing of it? It would be counter productive as they seldom use the service anyway.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Do you know we spunk 3 billion a year on offshore charities? This is our money. Our taxes.

 

[jackanada]

Why does eg an investment banker need free medical support from the NHS?

Because having the lovely efficient NHS both as an alternative and for private patients to be fed back into makes his healthcare plan about 5 times cheaper.
Also when he or his family get something horrible and their insurance company refuses to renew the NHS is all they will have.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The whole point of the NHS is the provision of free healthcare for all. If high earners were restricted from using the service then how could we demand they contribute to the financing of it? It would be counter productive as they seldom use the service anyway.

It is not free, so many get this so wrong.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Reduce the use of agency nurses for a start, and as for contracting out, start by bringing things like cleaning and catering back in house.

Reduce the use of agency nurses, or reduce the cost of agency nurses?