[News] The NHS ..... our NHS

[midnight_rendezvous]

Stop it.

Let’s all focus on the great things the NHS is doing and deal with the here and now. My other half is an overworked NHS ward sister and she’s more concerned about getting people through this rather than moaning about government policy.

There a time and place for that sort of stuff and it isn’t now.


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Whilst I fully respect your other half and all that the wonderful NHS staff do for us as a society, I don’t see how the here and now isn’t a perfectly good time to discuss how their jobs will be increasingly difficult as a direct result of government policy. If a crisis such as this isn’t a massive red flag in regards to how government policy has made it more difficult for our healthcare systems’ ability to cope under such pressure, goodness knows what is. I feel genuinely sorry for the overworked, under appreciated and under paid NHS staff, some of whom are members of my own immediate family, and that is why I call out government policy.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Whilst I fully respect your other half and all that the wonderful NHS staff do for us as a society, I don’t see how the here and now isn’t a perfectly good time to discuss how their jobs will be increasingly difficult as a direct result of government policy. If a crisis such as this isn’t a massive red flag in regards to how government policy has made it more difficult for our healthcare systems’ ability to cope under such pressure, goodness knows what is. I feel genuinely sorry for the overworked, under appreciated and under paid NHS staff, some of whom are members of my own immediate family, and that is why I call out government policy.

There will be plenty of time to analyse policy and the repurcussions of this when this is all over, but I really don't think its appropriate to do so now. It will achieve nothing while people have more important things on their minds.

 

[drew]

Hopefully this video will make people feel a bit guilty about stockpiling... watch video .. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...urse-urges-public-stop-panic-buying-food.html

Not going to defend hoarders but the supermarkets are coming up with these gimmicks about allowing certain key workers to get shopping but a) they are at the times when they will be at work and b) they are not going to enforce it, just asking others to respect it, like that's going to happen!! Also, there's no guarantee that there will be anything on the shelves at those times!!! M & S has said NHS staff can shop for the first hour on Tues and Fri. My wife starts work around 7am and doesn't get home till gone 7 in the evenings.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

There will be plenty of time to analyse policy and the repurcussions of this when this is all over, but I really don't think its appropriate to do so now. It will achieve nothing while people have more important things on their minds.

I disagree but understand why you’d think that considering the context of your situation. My concern is if it’s not deemed right to call out government policy now, in the midst of a crisis, when will it be? I’m sure after the event there will still be those clamouring that it’s not right to ‘politicise’ a crisis such as this, even if the direct response to said crisis was deeply hindered by the government’s policies.

 

[drew]

Stop it.

Let’s all focus on the great things the NHS is doing and deal with the here and now. My other half is an overworked NHS ward sister and she’s more concerned about getting people through this rather than moaning about government policy.

There a time and place for that sort of stuff and it isn’t now.


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I disagree. My other half runs an intensive care unit so will be at the very sharp end and one of the biggest headaches is the supply of PPE and consumables. The government are trying to look good at their press conferences stating things are on order but there's no sign of them yet. I see no problem in holding the government to account rather then just let them have a free ride because we're at the start of a crisis.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I disagree. My other half runs an intensive care unit so will be at the very sharp end and one of the biggest headaches is the supply of PPE and consumables. The government are trying to look good at their press conferences stating things are on order but there's no sign of them yet. I see no problem in holding the government to account rather then just let them have a free ride because we're at the start of a crisis.

I hear you.

I think its right and good to criticise issues with regard to the current crisis and how the government is dealing with them. The point I was trying to make was that now is not the time to politicise it.

 

[Springal]

I disagree. My other half runs an intensive care unit so will be at the very sharp end and one of the biggest headaches is the supply of PPE and consumables.

Maybe she should take the same precaution with ordering PPE & consumables as you / she does in the supermarket ?

I doubt anyone is happy you can't get food for your parents but more fool you for not starting to buy a little extra each time you went before! Yes, people buying 6 of everything are the problem but if, over the course of the last 3 or 4 weeks you bought a couple of tins extra each time you went then you wouldn't be in this situation now. There are two extremes in this crisis, those that have stocked up as if preparing for a nuclear winter and those that just buried their head in the sand!!!

 

[drew]

Maybe she should take the same precaution with ordering PPE & consumables as you / she does in the supermarket ?

She would if the Government would let her and also they need a damn sight more than enough for two weeks!!

 

[southstandandy]

Total respect to all those in the NHS. My sister is a doctor and regularly works 55 hours a week - for the last fortnight she has worked 70+ hours. Hats off as I couldn't do it but I do worry that working so many hours from any one individual could lead to mistakes. She just finished another 14 hour shift (not on call) but in the hospital and on her feet all day and had nothing to eat except 2 cups of coffee and a biscuit. I do worry for her as I do for so many in her position.

 

[beorhthelm]

Whilst I fully respect your other half and all that the wonderful NHS staff do for us as a society, I don’t see how the here and now isn’t a perfectly good time to discuss how their jobs will be increasingly difficult as a direct result of government policy. If a crisis such as this isn’t a massive red flag in regards to how government policy has made it more difficult for our healthcare systems’ ability to cope under such pressure, goodness knows what is. I feel genuinely sorry for the overworked, under appreciated and under paid NHS staff, some of whom are members of my own immediate family, and that is why I call out government policy.

thing is you can increase spending 10%, 20% and it likely wouldnt make a meaningful impact on the current situation. and who knows policy might change as a result.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

thing is you can increase spending 10%, 20% and it likely wouldnt make a meaningful impact on the current situation. and who knows policy might change as a result.

I’m sure it would be incredibly ‘meaningful’ to many families if deaths could have been prevented. Before the crisis began the UK had one of the lowest rates of ICU beds in Europe due to underfunding. I am hopeful people don’t forget this when this is all over.

 

[beorhthelm]

I’m sure it would be incredibly ‘meaningful’ to many families if deaths could have been prevented. Before the crisis began the UK had one of the lowest rates of ICU beds in Europe due to underfunding. I am hopeful people don’t forget this when this is all over.

we have one of the lowest number of ICU due to higher standards.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

we have one of the lowest number of ICU due to higher standards.

Yet Germany have the highest number of ICU beds, are you saying their standards are inferior to ours? Either way, doesn’t do us much good now does it?

 

[beorhthelm]

Yet Germany have the highest number of ICU beds, are you saying their standards are inferior to ours? Either way, doesn’t do us much good now does it?

are you questioning the standards of NHS? as it goes, Germany considers 1:2.5 nurses to patients suitable for ICU, UK is 1:1. other countries count equipment in a warehouse a "bed" or "ICU", we count a fully staffed ward or unit.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

are you questioning the standards of NHS? as it goes, Germany considers 1:2.5 nurses to patients suitable for ICU, UK is 1:1. other countries count equipment in a warehouse a "bed" or "ICU", we count a fully staffed ward or unit.

I’m questioning why we have so few beds in ICU. The UK has just 6.6 ICU beds per 100,000 people, compared with Germany's 29.2, Italy's 12.5 and France's 9.7. Out of the G7 countries, the UK's health spending per person was, until the recent financial stimulus announcement, the second-lowest - spending 2,989 pounds a person - far behind France and Germany. This is a consequence of a decade of NHS underfunding wrapped around the auspices of austerity. Are you seriously suggesting that our standards negate this?

 

[Hastings gull]

Political capital? By pointing out the NHS has fewer resources to deal with this crisis because of the current government’s policies? The Tories have devastated the NHS over the last 10 years. You call pointing that out ‘making political capital’. I call it holding our government to account.

Well you would do, because you are desperate to fit it into your totally biased narrative, aren't you? Quite how you think the NHS was supposed to have had the resources to deal with something that 2 months ago would have been entirely unthinkable, is beyond me.

 

[Hastings gull]

We’ll see how things pan out though in the coming months LLF.. I too have had recent cause to thank the NHS for 2 family related illnesses that might have been tragic if not so brilliantly and quickly dealt with..
My fear is it’ll be back to ....NHS slating... within months by the usual MPs , Newspapers etc.

Watching nurses doing 12 hours shifts to get away from the old days because of time saved on handover periods boils my blood... 12 hour shifts wtf.

My family's experience of the NHS has been largely positive, apart from trying to get GP appointments and I don't doubt that the many folk who work in the NHS do a splendid job under what can at times be difficult circumstances, but that does not make the organisation immune from justifiable criticism. Some time ago, I posted a comment from an ambulance-driving mate, who told me (and confirmed again today) that a hospital in the South East ( I won't name it) when it discharges patients phones two companies to collect and uses the first one to arrive, paying the second anyway.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

[/B]

Well you would do, because you are desperate to fit it into your totally biased narrative, aren't you? Quite how you think the NHS was supposed to have had the resources to deal with something that 2 months ago would have been entirely unthinkable, is beyond me.

By ignoring the catastrophic underfunding of the NHS and the impact such underfunding has on a crisis like this, I’d suggest it is you that is sticking to a bias narrative. You and other Tory sycophants may be unwilling to hold the government to account after a decade of cuts, but you won’t find me doing the same. And, for a point of reference, doctors were concerned about the lack of beds in December.

 

[Hastings gull]

I’m questioning why we have so few beds in ICU. The UK has just 6.6 ICU beds per 100,000 people, compared with Germany's 29.2, Italy's 12.5 and France's 9.7. Out of the G7 countries, the UK's health spending per person was, until the recent financial stimulus announcement, the second-lowest - spending 2,989 pounds a person - far behind France and Germany. This is a consequence of a decade of NHS underfunding wrapped around the auspices of austerity. Are you seriously suggesting that our standards negate this?

You are quoting the German health system and I experienced it for 25 years. It is far superior to the NHS, whatever you may choose to selectively think and it has nothing to do with austerity as you choose to believe, because the disparity was there long before austerity was invented. The Germans pay into their insurance policies far more than we Brits would ever want to, and as the saying goes -you get what you pay for. We too could have an NHS, or any other system (and don't forget that most other European countries have NOT gone for our system) if we are prepared to pay for it, but the reality is that we are collectively not. But sadly, matters will never change regarding our health system so long as folk like you will want to politicise it, the moment anyone suggests anything that doesn't correspond to left wing dogma. For my part, I am not bothered what system we have, so long as we have what works best, but for you that would never be good enough, would it?

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

You are quoting the German health system and I experienced it for 25 years. It is far superior to the NHS, whatever you may choose to selectively think and it has nothing to do with austerity as you choose to believe, because the disparity was there long before austerity was invented. The Germans pay into their insurance policies far more than we Brits would ever want to, and as the saying goes -you get what you pay for. We too could have an NHS, or any other system (and don't forget that most other European countries have NOT gone for our system) if we are prepared to pay for it, but the reality is that we are collectively not. But sadly, matters will never change regarding our health system so long as folk like you will want to politicise it, the moment anyone suggests anything that doesn't correspond to left wing dogma. For my part, I am not bothered what system we have, so long as we have what works best, but for you that would never be good enough, would it?

Doctors up and down the country have warned us over the cuts imposed by the Tories over the last decade. Dominic Cummings, Johnson’s chief advisor, is on record as saying that the Tories don’t care about the NHS. We also have British Medical Association chairman, Dr Chaand Nagpaul, saying that the UK’s lack of ventilators was “a result of a decade of under-funding” and Britain’s “starting position has been far worse than many other European nations”, but I’m the one for politicising the NHS for pointing this out... god you must really want to bury your head in the sand as you are going to great lengths to defend your Tory overlords.