[Football] The neutral ground thing

[Bozza]

From The Athletic (Full piece >>> https://theathletic.com/1846039/)

The prospect of all remaining Premier League fixtures being concluded as home and away fixtures has increased amid confusion over why neutral venues were ever proposed and uncertainty about who would ultimately make that decision.

Police guidance originally suggested up to six matches — Manchester City v Liverpool, Manchester City v Newcastle United, Manchester United v Sheffield United, Newcastle v Liverpool, Everton v Liverpool and the game in which Liverpool could secure the title — would be played at alternative venues on the recommendation of the head of United Kingdom's Football Policing Unit, Mark Roberts.

Last Friday, the Premier League reaffirmed its commitment to fixtures going ahead as planned, albeit without fans, just hours after a statement from Roberts said a "consensus" had been reached about using neutral venues. The Athletic has since learned of the lack of support for his plan among associated powers as well as those with influence inside football.

This has improved the chances of neutral venues only being used as a contingency. An agreement on this measure is likely to be reached between clubs at a Premier League meeting on Thursday.

This heightens the chances of Liverpool securing their first league title in 30 years on Merseyside, with their next two scheduled games set to be at Goodison Park and then Anfield against Crystal Palace.​

A couple of things...

1. The initial choice of six games looked a little bit strange, didn't it? Man City v Newcastle and Man Utd v Sheff Utd - what was deemed "risky" about these games?

2. Beyond when Liverpool win the title, it strikes me as the games most likely to pose a risk of supporters gathering are the relegation make-or-break games that may occur in the final few rounds of fixtures, although clearly quite what those will be is not known yet, but games like West Ham v Villa in the penultimate round of fixtures, or Villa v Sheff Utd could be the kid of games where some fans may seek to congegate. I wonder if there'll be contingency to move fixtures to neutral venues nearer the time?

 

[Giraffe]

I've always felt this whole neutral venue thing is nonsense.

The reality is for the majority of games only a few will attempt to get near the stadium.

For games of extreme importance, i.e Liverpool winning the title, wherever they play and win the title fans will congregate either outside Anfield or in the City Centre. That will happen regardless of where they play.

Same for Leeds in the Championship.

Not sure about the relegation games. Personally I feel so far removed from it all now, I really don't see a lot of people wanting to gather together to celebrate us getting a point away at Burnley in the last game?

 

[A1X]

I can see why they'd be worried about a congregation of fans at Anfield if Liverpool won the title there (as happened with a PSG game just before their league was halted). I don't see the problem with the others.

 

[rippleman]

It was always a stupid idea and I'm glad the PL clubs gave it the finger it deserved.

All you need is for an emergency power to issue a 5 year banning order, and a hefty fine, to any fans congregating within 200m of a stadium on a matchday.

That would surely be sufficient to deter all but the most stupid bin-dipper.

 

[The Albion Roar]

Mark Roberts is DCC of South Yorkshire Police. Only this sport (well, government too) could you have a representative of the least appropriate police force when it comes to football being in charge of police matters in football.

That said, it really shouldn't be that difficult to set up an exclusion zone around most grounds? And if some dickheads choose to turn up, the team with the most number of supporters forfeits the game (yeah, unenforceable I know but...)

 

[Lower West Stander]

Even when people were going to games "police advice" meant you had to postpone a game if there were more than three people shopping in Churchill Sq due to resourcing issues.

I just take most of it with a pinch of salt. And even with half of Sussex police at the Amex they still managed to cock it up during the Palace game.

 

[Easy 10]

Why the hell would fans elect to travel and stand around outside an empty stadium, running the gauntlet with police moving you on, and missing the game completely when you COULD have stayed home and watched it live on TV, with a beer ?

You would seriously have to question the intelligence of any dimbots who actually chose to do the former of those two options.

 

[AmexRuislip]

TBH even if the Albion played at the Amex behind closed doors, surely it'll still seem like a neutral venue - no atmosphere.
All games in the PL are classed as big fixtures, isn't that the lure for all in sundry of foreign tv to stream in their countries.
https://youtu.be/AfqBO0cGifs

 

[A1X]

You would seriously have to question the intelligence of any dimbots who actually chose to do the former of those two options.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've always felt this whole neutral venue thing is nonsense.

The reality is for the majority of games only a few will attempt to get near the stadium.

For games of extreme importance, i.e Liverpool winning the title, wherever they play and win the title fans will congregate either outside Anfield or in the City Centre. That will happen regardless of where they play.

Same for Leeds in the Championship.

Not sure about the relegation games. Personally I feel so far removed from it all now, I really don't see a lot of people wanting to gather together to celebrate us getting a point away at Burnley in the last game?

This. Utter madness.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why the hell would fans elect to travel and stand around outside an empty stadium, running the gauntlet with police moving you on, and missing the game completely when you COULD have stayed home and watched it live on TV, with a beer ?

You would seriously have to question the intelligence of any dimbots who actually chose to do the former of those two options.

Also this.

As I said weeks ago the best way to deal with this is put a few armed police around the ground with the order to fire a rubber bullet at or tazer anyone getting within 6 feet of anyone else. Or water cannon (I gather Boris bought one when he was mayor).

 

[Weststander]

According to 5live the police are also highly interested in the London derbies, perhaps we under estimate the hatred? Fearful of clashes.

Looking to move those games elsewhere.

 

[METALMICKY]

Why the hell would fans elect to travel and stand around outside an empty stadium, running the gauntlet with police moving you on, and missing the game completely when you COULD have stayed home and watched it live on TV, with a beer ?

You would seriously have to question the intelligence of any dimbots who actually chose to do the former of those two options.

Absolutely! But then there is no accounting for "dimbots "! Have you seen the gathering in Hyde Park this afternoon ? We are all reviled by the recent events in the US and things must change and people should be able to show their support and solidarity. However, in the midst of a pandemic and an uncertainty about a second wave how dumb is that! ' Take the knee' on your doorstep tonight FFS

My ultimate point being you just can't account for thickness. And will all of Liverpool be sensible when the title is won. Sadly I doubt it!

 

[The Large One]

Why the hell would fans elect to travel and stand around outside an empty stadium, running the gauntlet with police moving you on, and missing the game completely when you COULD have stayed home and watched it live on TV, with a beer ?

You would seriously have to question the intelligence of any dimbots who actually chose to do the former of those two options.

Fully agree with you.

Sadly, the Deputy Chief Constable of South Yorkshire doesn't have the same faith in humanity that you do.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

According to 5live the police are also highly interested in the London derbies, perhaps we under estimate the hatred? Fearful of clashes.

Looking to move those games elsewhere.

I'm not sure that would achieve anything.

If they're worried about violence in London in a game with no fans then surely that violence would happen in London wherever the game took place? If they're going to fight about a game they're not going to they're going to fight regardless of where the game is actually held.

I don't know, just seems a strange argument to me. Then again it's the met so who knows.

 

[southstandandy]

It was always a stupid idea and I'm glad the PL clubs gave it the finger it deserved.

All you need is for an emergency power to issue a 5 year banning order, and a hefty fine, to any fans congregating within 200m of a stadium on a matchday.

That would surely be sufficient to deter all but the most stupid bin-dipper.

Totally agree. Also if it had been implemented you would have had to do the same for the Championship matches too (just as much chance of Leeds or West Brom fans mingling around their stadiums when they could be close to promotion), so to have had to move 2 complete divisions matches to other venues was nonsensical to begin with.

 

[Weststander]

I'm not sure that would achieve anything.

If they're worried about violence in London in a game with no fans then surely that violence would happen in London wherever the game took place? If they're going to fight about a game they're not going to they're going to fight regardless of where the game is actually held.

I don't know, just seems a strange argument to me. Then again it's the met so who kniws.

They used the example of West Ham at Spurs, as you probably know that over the last 15 years or so, there’s a pathological hatred between the fans of both clubs. It was the understanding of the BBC that the Met do not want the game held at WHL, in their opinion it would be a magnet for clashes, just a 5 mile journey for Hammers thugs.

I don’t know why the Met are so keen to stop this now, when they police clashes between London clubs every season? It may be for the reason much discussed in the media over the last three months, that they want resources targeted to policing social distancing in general. Rather than separating knuckledraggers.

Have you heard why?

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

They used the example of West Ham at Spurs, as you probably know that over the last 15 years or so, there’s a pathological hatred between the fans of both clubs. It was the understanding of the BBC that the Met do not want the game held at WHL, in their opinion it would be a magnet for clashes, just a 5 mile journey for Hammers thugs.

I don’t know why the Met are so keen to stop this now, when they police clashes between London clubs every season? It may be for the reason much discussed in the media over the last three months, that they want resources targeted to policing social distancing in general. Rather than separating knuckledraggers.

Have you heard why?

No, I have no idea although not wanting to spread their resources to thin is a logical guess.

It just seems strange reasoning to me. None of them are going to the game so if they're going to fight they'll fight regardless of where the games being played. But that's just my thinking, maybe they have evidence/statistics to say that there won't be any trouble if the game's played at Derby or wherever the neutral ground will be.

 

[Easy 10]

Absolutely! But then there is no accounting for "dimbots "! Have you seen the gathering in Hyde Park this afternoon ? We are all reviled by the recent events in the US and things must change and people should be able to show their support and solidarity. However, in the midst of a pandemic and an uncertainty about a second wave how dumb is that! ' Take the knee' on your doorstep tonight FFS

My ultimate point being you just can't account for thickness. And will all of Liverpool be sensible when the title is won. Sadly I doubt it!

Fully agree with you.

Sadly, the Deputy Chief Constable of South Yorkshire doesn't have the same faith in humanity that you do.

Imagine the scenario. Final day of the season, we need a point at Burnley to secure our PL status. The game is live on TV. Do you:

A. Fill your fridge with beer, and settle down behind your sofa to watch the game from between your fingers, or perhaps have 5 friends round for a social-distance viewing in the back garden and a celebration/commiseration afterwards
or
B. Travel 300-odd miles to a tragic little racist northern griefhole to stand around outside a crumbling empty slum of a stadium with a gaggle of random goons, with a radio pressed to your ear, avoiding the old bill and probably getting beaten up by the locals. Followed by another 300 miles to get home again.

If there are any BHA thickets at the Amex or any of the away grounds whilst we are playing, I sincerely hope they get teargassed.

 

[Tokyohands]

Jeez is it really worth all the hassle?