The Lewes Road bus lane/traffic congestion

[The Large One]

Polite question, are you personally affected by the Lewes Road congestion cos you seem to have a Large opinion on it.

Polite answer - yes.

 

[The Large One]

As an outsider, I won't comment on the merits (or otherwise) of the scheme itself, but you have hit the nail on the head for me. I cannot understand the opposition (especially from the Greens as I understand it) to a proper park and ride scheme. Other cities, most notably Norwich, Oxford and York, have well thought out schemes, and therefore are far less traffic plagued in their centres. I was in Oxford the other week, and though the High Street is still a bit of a pain, the lack of traffic, along with the beautiful architecture, makes the place a joy to be in. There are four park and rides, one for each major entry point into the city - I regularly used to use the Peartree one (junction of A34/A44) when coming in to shop for books as a student at Buckingham. I know that might not be practical in Brighton, but extra P&Rs say at Shoreham and next to the Amex could make a major difference.

From my own point of view, if I want to go to Brighton when I am in Sussex, I have two options: train from Three Bridges (expensive) or from Haywards Heath (now a complete pain to park, as the previous 4-hour parking spaces are now down to 2 hours), or driving to the Withdean P&R and taking the dreadful Number 27, which winds its way round Westdene before going down Dyke Road or the 5 buses (I know about them from our Withdean days, but others may not). These are both very poor value for money in my view if just on a journey in and out of town - yes I know they're fine if you're making several journeys. For me, it would be far more convenient to drive to the Amex and get a bus into town from there. Therefore, if I need shopping which is unavailable in East Grinstead, I usually go to Tunbridge Wells, which has plentiful and reasonably priced parking.

Could you drive to Lewes and use that as an effective P&R?

Similarly, while successive council administrations down the years (not just the Greens - it's been all of them) for both Brighton and Hove - before and after they joined together - have not come to terms with a suitable P&R site, comparing Brighton to say, Oxford or Norwich is a little unfair, as the centre of Brighton is also the edge of Brighton. You don't get 360º access to the city.

However, that in itself doesn't explain why we have not had a P&R site identified and built.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Polite answer - yes.

Fair enough

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I'm not generalising. I only started driving late in life and was quite shocked by how impatient and agressive pretty much every driver on the road is. Maybe if you have been weened on driving from the age of 17 this behaviour is normal to you?

And why be so impatient? If this is an issue for you leave earlier, it's not difficult.

All right, if you're insisting that almost every one of Britain's 35m drivers is impatient and aggressive I give up. Have a nice evening.

 

[Garage_Doors]

No one gives a flying **** over here about such minor issues.

One such "minor issue" as you refer to it left a poor sod with a broken neck in hove today, i don't think he will be referring to it as a minor issue as it with have a effect on him for the rest of his life.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

All right, if you're insisting that almost every one of Britain's 35m drivers is impatient and aggressive I give up. Have a nice evening.

I have not met every single UK driver but from the ones that I have I insist they are generally impatient and aggresive. You allow a safe distance behind the car in fron and some goon will nip into it. You drive at the correct speed and some moron will drive up close behind and flash you. They're always ****ing beeping their horns, gesticulating at other drivers and moaning about everything under the sun. Everyone else is at fault. Prove me wrong if you can.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One such "minor issue" as you refer to it left a poor sod with a broken neck in hove today, i don't think he will be referring to it as a minor issue as it with have a effect on him for the rest of his life.

What happened?

 

[mune ni kamome]

Could you drive to Lewes and use that as an effective P&R?

Similarly, while successive council administrations down the years (not just the Greens - it's been all of them) for both Brighton and Hove - before and after they joined together - have not come to terms with a suitable P&R site, comparing Brighton to say, Oxford or Norwich is a little unfair, as the centre of Brighton is also the edge of Brighton. You don't get 360º access to the city.

However, that in itself doesn't explain why we have not had a P&R site identified and built.

Perhaps we could have a Park & Sail at Shoreham and Newhaven and come in by boat, dropping off at the pier or West St.

 

[Garage_Doors]

What happened?

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10724488.Hove_cyclist_seriously_hurt_in_crash/?ref=mr

"A cyclist was rushed to hospital with a suspected broken neck after a crash on New Church Road in Hove last night.

Paramedics were called to the scene, near to the junction of Park Avenue and Welbeck Avenue at 9.05pm on Monday.

The cyclist was travelling south on Park Avenue and was crossing New Church Road but appears to have failed to stop at the junction and collided with a blue Fiat Punto.

The 40-year-old male cyclist from Hove was taken to Royal Sussex County Hospital in Brighton with a suspected broken neck. The 24-year-old man driving the Fiat was uninjured."

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One such "minor issue" as you refer to it left a poor sod with a broken neck in hove today, i don't think he will be referring to it as a minor issue as it with have a effect on him for the rest of his life.

I have just looked it up. Very sad indeed and my wishes go out to him. I still stand by my assertion that car drivers obsess with cyclists and over play their alleged bad road use though.

 

[The Large One]

Perhaps we could have a Park & Sail at Shoreham and Newhaven and come in by boat, dropping off at the pier or West St.

Were you being serious? You say that, but in Dr Anthony Seldon's book on the Past, Present and Future of Brighton & Hove, he suggests just that - he called it a Water Taxi service.

 

[Cloughie]

I have not met every single UK driver but from the ones that I have I insist they are generally impatient and aggresive. You allow a safe distance behind the car in fron and some goon will nip into it. You drive at the correct speed and some moron will drive up close behind and flash you. They're always ****ing beeping their horns, gesticulating at other drivers and moaning about everything under the sun. Everyone else is at fault. Prove me wrong if you can.

Believe it or not but driving in America is much, much worse for this.

 

[mune ni kamome]

Were you being serious? You say that, but in Dr Anthony Seldon's book on the Past, Present and Future of Brighton & Hove, he suggests just that - he called it a Water Taxi service.

There you are then. Many a true word spoken in jest. The residents of Widdicombe Way and Nyetimber Hill would benefit too with calm returning once more to their streets.

 

[The Large One]

There you are then. Many a true word spoken in jest. The residents of Widdicombe Way and Nyetimber Hill would benefit too with calm returning once more to their streets.

He also suggested a rapid transport service that went UNDER North Laine.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

As ever, the vast majority of cars, sitting impatiently on Dyke Road, to exit our fair (and unfair) city were single occupants and I am sure that counts for all exit routes.

As soon as we work out how to car share and provide a quick and affordable public transport system, then everyone is going to be a little bit happier.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

Could you drive to Lewes and use that as an effective P&R?

Similarly, while successive council administrations down the years (not just the Greens - it's been all of them) for both Brighton and Hove - before and after they joined together - have not come to terms with a suitable P&R site, comparing Brighton to say, Oxford or Norwich is a little unfair, as the centre of Brighton is also the edge of Brighton. You don't get 360º access to the city.

However, that in itself doesn't explain why we have not had a P&R site identified and built.

Of course, you're right there, Al, and I have gone through Lewes a few times - it's my parking place of choice for games at the Amex, and I could park and take a 28 or 29. I can't remember whether the estate by the prison is restricted - I know it isn't at night. Having said that, if I park in Lewes, I'll probably be tempted to shop there, as it's a very pleasant town, with some very good shops for its size, a loss of a customer for Brighton. As I implied in my previous post, establishing P&Rs in Brighton is not as easy as in other cities, though their success shows they should be tried. I am not, though, advocating driving into the centre of the city. Walking back from Withdean to the Brewery Tap, I used to wonder how those sitting in queues had had any pleasure from their day out. A good number must have come from London. Surely going by train must be more pleasurable. It's certainly my choice if I'm coming from London.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

As ever, the vast majority of cars, sitting impatiently on Dyke Road, to exit our fair (and unfair) city were single occupants and I am sure that counts for all exit routes.

As soon as we work out how to car share and provide a quick and affordable public transport system, then everyone is going to be a little bit happier.

True. What gets me is that they make car driving more and more onerous without providing viable alternatives. It's rather like the government finding the disabled fit for work and try to drive people off the unemployment register whilst not actually doing anything to help creates the jobs needed for this to happen. What happened to the idea of joined up government. I happily use public transport when I can reasonably but a lot of the time it's just not viable.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Believe it or not but driving in America is much, much worse for this.

True, instead of two fingers you get a bullet.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

True. What gets me is that they make car driving more and more onerous without providing viable alternatives. It's rather like the government finding the disabled fit for work and try to drive people off the unemployment register whilst not actually doing anything to help creates the jobs needed for this to happen. What happened to the idea of joined up government. I happily use public transport when I can reasonably but a lot of the time it's just not viable.

Indeed. Granted, it didn't work for the Zulus at Rorke's Drift, but a multiple pronged attack would be much better than the current system. Rather than exacerbating the problem and alienating many thousands of people.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The main thrust of the Green opposition to park & ride in Brighton has always been that it is not as good an alternative to driving as public transport is. Many local Green activists subscribe to the argument that park & ride schemes actually encourage car driving.

The counter argument (that I always put when I was a council transport planner) is that park & ride is primarily designed to reduce city centre congestion. The extent to which it achieves this is obviously dependent on the amount of city centre car parking that is provided - car parks invariably fill up, if spaces are made available. Our local politicians seem to imagine that increasing parking charges will reduce the use of city centre car parks, but this is plainly not happening. All that happens is that drivers pay the higher charges and moan about them.

The real trick is to do what they do in central London - simply not provide places to park. That cuts down car use like nothing else.