The Lewes Road bus lane/traffic congestion

[Lincoln Imp]

Driving is a choice, not driving is the default.

Personally I'd like VED abolished and fuel tax increased to cover the cost. Drive more = pay more. Drive an inefficient car = pay more. Drive a car inefficiently = pay more. No more "I pay road tax" stupidity. No more tax disc administration.

...and best not to repeat old myths - for many people, driving is NOT a choice. Staying with the example of my sister, she lives in a rural area because of the work her husband did. Life in her village can exist only because of cars. And even down here, driving is often not a choice, as has been said on this thread many times. If it was a choice I doubt you'd see Lord B's magnificent carriage processing along Lewes Road as often as it does.

 

[teaboy]

...and best not to repeat old myths - for many people, driving is NOT a choice. Staying with the example of my sister, she lives in a rural area because of the work her husband did. Life in her village can exist only because of cars. And even down here, driving is often not a choice, as has been said on this thread many times. If it was a choice I doubt you'd see Lord B's magnificent carriage processing along Lewes Road as often as it does.

I'd suggest life in villages has been eroded because of cars. Village shops close down because people can drive to supermarkets, and choose to do just that. People choose to learn to drive in the first place. There are laws to prevent some people from driving. There are medical reasons why others cannot even learn to drive in the first place. Like I said - not driving is the default position that everyone starts from.

Just because life (as it's currently organised) is easier if you choose to drive it does not mean the decision isn't there.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I'd suggest life in villages has been eroded because of cars. Village shops close down because people can drive to supermarkets, and choose to do just that.

That sounds more like an argument against capitalism than against cars.

 

[Brovion]

I'd suggest life in villages has been eroded because of cars. Village shops close down because people can drive to supermarkets, and choose to do just that. People choose to learn to drive in the first place. There are laws to prevent some people from driving. There are medical reasons why others cannot even learn to drive in the first place. Like I said - not driving is the default position that everyone starts from.

Just because life (as it's currently organised) is easier if you choose to drive it does not mean the decision isn't there.

As did the country railways when people switched to lorries for freight and then cars for personal transport. I'm not denying the validity of your argument, but is it right to 'punish' people who live in these areas today? Telling the people of West Grinstead for example that they can't use cars because earlier inhabitants should have used the railway seems a bit mean. Also you can't preserve everything in aspic, people used supermarkets because they were cheaper. You could argue that in some ways cars have revitalised some (some) villages by making them 'arty/crafty' centres. I was at a village in Norfolk, can't remember the name, a few months back where that was the case exactly.

(There is a counter-argument to that that it's also made villages a bit 'twee' as opposed to homes for horny-handed sons of toil. I have some sympathy with that view, but societies do evolve and uses change).

 

[teaboy]

It's more an argument for proper investment into rural transport services. The railways should be reinstated where possible, and expanded elsewhere. Rural bus services should exist, allow people to use them to go to work and back, and to the shops. Put in high quality, well-integrated segregation (not painted lanes that start and stop in the middle of nowhere) for cyclists for journeys to other transport hubs, and into and round towns and suddenly the car becomes a weird transport option to take.

 

[marshy68]

It's more an argument for proper investment into rural transport services. The railways should be reinstated where possible, and expanded elsewhere. Rural bus services should exist, allow people to use them to go to work and back, and to the shops. Put in high quality, well-integrated segregation (not painted lanes that start and stop in the middle of nowhere) for cyclists for journeys to other transport hubs, and into and round towns and suddenly the car becomes a weird transport option to take.

Nice dream.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

...and best not to repeat old myths - for many people, driving is NOT a choice. Staying with the example of my sister, she lives in a rural area because of the work her husband did. Life in her village can exist only because of cars. And even down here, driving is often not a choice, as has been said on this thread many times. If it was a choice I doubt you'd see Lord B's magnificent carriage processing along Lewes Road as often as it does.

For many of my journeys into Brighton (and all of my journeys to London), I choose to use the public transport alternatives that are available to me - mainly on the grounds of convenience (first) and cost (second). And that's from someone who lives surrounded by open fields and two miles from the nearest village.

The biggest impact on village life of cuts in public transport and the loss of village shops is that it becomes increasingly difficult for older people to live in the local community that their families have lived in for generations. The result is that they move out of villages and into towns, vacating houses that are then snapped up by younger folk from far away, or wealthy retirees. House prices in villages soar and local people can't any longer afford the local housing. And a further effect is that the number of pupils attending the village school starts to drop. The fabric of the community slowly changes. What was once a "working village" becomes a "commuter village" and even farm workers have to start commuting into work from wherever they are now living.

 

[unklbrian]

For many of my journeys into Brighton (and all of my journeys to London), I choose to use the public transport alternatives that are available to me - mainly on the grounds of convenience (first) and cost (second). And that's from someone who lives surrounded by open fields and two miles from the nearest village.

The biggest impact on village life of cuts in public transport and the loss of village shops is that it becomes increasingly difficult for older people to live in the local community that their families have lived in for generations. The result is that they move out of villages and into towns, vacating houses that are then snapped up by younger folk from far away, or wealthy retirees. House prices in villages soar and local people can't any longer afford the local housing. And a further effect is that the number of pupils attending the village school starts to drop. The fabric of the community slowly changes. What was once a "working village" becomes a "commuter village" and even farm workers have to start commuting into work from wherever they are now living.

you forgot to add that the 'incomers' often pull up the drawbridge as soon as they can , not allowing any more low cost housing -- Ditchling being a fine example . no social housing built for 40 years has driven locals out , Pubs shut , Shops stop selling sliced Bread etc , and the cycle goes on

 

[portslade seagull]

Surely the biggest single reason for people not using shops is their new found ability to use the Internet for all the odds and sods of life including the weekly shop and with the Greens waging war against car users more shops will go as potential shoppers redirect to Lewes, Worthing, Eastbourne and Burgess hill as it is deemed to be cheaper if travelling by car to use car parks. Also some will resort to Internet shopping

 

[The Large One]

Surely the biggest single reason for people not using shops is their new found ability to use the Internet for all the odds and sods of life including the weekly shop and with the Greens waging war against car users more shops will go as potential shoppers redirect to Lewes, Worthing, Eastbourne and Burgess hill as it is deemed to be cheaper if travelling by car to use car parks. Also some will resort to Internet shopping

How many more times does one have to say 'how many more times?'

 

[portslade seagull]

How many more times does one have to say 'how many more times?'

What would you call it then I drove my CAR to Worthing today and parked for 6hrs plus so we wouldn't get ripped off in Brighton, hence all our money spent which was a tidy sum was lost to the B'ton shops

 

[Garage_Doors]

How many more times does one have to say 'how many more times?'

Regardless to the fact that this invidual scheme was an all party initiative, you cannot deny the Greens are anti car, can you?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

What would you call it then I drove my CAR to Worthing today and parked for 6hrs plus so we wouldn't get ripped off in Brighton, hence all our money spent which was a tidy sum was lost to the B'ton shops

If the number of empty shops is a measure of the economic vibrancy (or otherwise) of town centres, it's interesting that Brighton has only 6 per cent of city centre shops standing empty, compared with a national average of 14 per cent and Worthing with 8.9 per cent.

http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/...emains-better-than-the-national-average/23876

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/new...g-rest-of-uk-with-fewer-empty-shops-1-5502002

Brighton is doing fine, it would seem.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

for many people, driving is NOT a choice.

I don't drive, primarily because I don't enjoy it and I find driving a car boring and a waste of my time. I have therefore made decisions and organized my life to minimize driving. I have driven a car once in the last year. Driving is a choice and an activity I choose not to do.

 

[Billy the Fish]

EVERYONE pays for the roads - motorists and non-motorists - through general taxation. The money from VED is not ring-fenced. The taxation you pay is for the vehicle not the road, and the amount of VED you pay in mainly dependent on the emissions the vehicle makes.

Bearing in mind owners of some cars pay nothing, I guess in the minds of those who are misguided enough to feel a sense of primary entitlement to the roads also feel that the zero-tax group have no entitlement...

I think this thread is getting sidetracked from the main point. The point is that they've spent a lot of money on something that just doesn't work very well.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I don't drive, primarily because I don't enjoy it and I find driving a car boring and a waste of my time. I have therefore made decisions and organized my life to minimize driving. I have driven a car once in the last year. Driving is a choice and an activity I choose not to do.

Well done. To achieve the same my sister could have divorced her husband and moved to somewhere with a station or a regular bus. Different people, different situations.

 

[Hillian1]

I drove up Lewes Road today for the first time since the alterations.

What an absolute cluster****. I'm so glad I don't live in the City and only come in for the footy and occasional night out.

From an outsiders point of view, someone has dropped a huge bollock with that one.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

I hope that when the improvements are made around The Gyratory that it finally puts a stop to all those fu@#wits that insist on being in the left hand lane of the two lanes going Eastbound at the lights just past the petrol station from turning right into Bear Road and thus cutting up the traffic in the right hand lane that wishes to go straight on along The Lewes Road.

 

[The Large One]

Regardless to the fact that this invidual scheme was an all party initiative, you cannot deny the Greens are anti car, can you?

Yes I can.

You, however, are very clearly anti-public transport. In fact, you've made it plain you're very anti-public.

 

[The Large One]

I think this thread is getting sidetracked from the main point. The point is that they've spent a lot of money on something that just doesn't work very well.

Doesn't work well for whom?

Car drivers in the rush hour? Probably. Cyclists, bus users, pedestrians may well disagree. Mind you, I went over Lewes Road at Moulsecoomb 5.45pm today, and it was damn near empty.

But as with all things (and there were howls of hysteria when the Amex's transport plan was put in place - and there are still people demanding what woud effectively be a door-to-door service), these things have a habit of sorting themselves out and calming down. People, unless they really wish to put themselves in the way of the misery juggernaut, tend to adapt to conditions after a short while.