[Politics] The Labour Government

[Right Brain Ronnie]

I’ll look forward to your exhaustive list of these promises but I won’t be holding my breath

Okay I will bite, as it appears some are trolling a few of us, despite them refusing to answer our questions.

Starmer made it very clear a few weeks ago he didn't know how big the black hole was, yet a few weeks earlier when he was gunning for Sunak about taking away the pensioners winter fuel allowance, he said that there was a 26 Billion black hole.

Starmer:
lie 1
Hypocrisy 1

 

[portslade seagull]

You’re confusing him with Boris Johnson

Once in power lying becomes 2nd nature and just grows through the term of government regardless of the party

 

[rogersix]

Once in power lying becomes 2nd nature and just grows through the term of government regardless of the party

some are more prone than others tho, parties and politicians. no one can lie more than the self delusional, bungle, truss and nigel fascist, these types, with the personality disorders

 

[Bodian]

Okay I will bite, as it appears some are trolling a few of us, despite them refusing to answer our questions.

Starmer made it very clear a few weeks ago he didn't know how big the black hole was, yet a few weeks earlier when he was gunning for Sunak about taking away the pensioners winter fuel allowance, he said that there was a 26 Billion black hole.

Starmer:
lie 1
Hypocrisy 1

With regard to the £26bn, do you mean the £22bn black hole Reeves/Starmer talked about soon after getting into power? I'm not sure where he has since said that he doesn't know how big the black hole is - other than the comments that things may still be uncovered and may/will get worse before they get better. Can you provide a link to this please?

And that's not really a lie - that's being open and announcing changing situations as they become clearer.

Nor does it involve u-turns or promises, so we can discuss those later on maybe?

 

[Zeberdi]

A little unfair I feel.

I read your post (5,107) on the US Election thread; which I thought was fair comment - and as I guess it was partly aimed at me - have taken note of it. I haven't seen anyone quote your post in a negative way at all. I don't think anyone has criticised you. Indeed, the only two people who have quoted it were one who agreed that ignoring posters was a good idea, and the other responder was the very person that is the main problem for decent discussion on there (ie: the one who posts nonsense and the rest of us challenge [and I can't help but note that you have challenged him for posting nonsense yourself in 5,140]). And I can't see the post about the second bold bit at all - maybe it was on a different thread.

But yes, I agree - it would be best if we ignored PoTG, Right Brain Ronnie and Crawley Dingo, because they seem to be here solely to wind people up. And I am afraid it is only human nature to get a bit wound-up by wind-up merchants. They are very good at what they do!

Er, I didn’t accuse any one of quoting my post so not sure what you mean by that. My post was ignored other than an indirect criticism of my suggestion to ignore the WUMs. Also not sure why you feel the need to turn the tables onto me.

You accuse me of being unfair yet you have just written a post above that accuses me of also of trolling and attacking CD because I have also called them out.

I have never trolled anyone back on that thread nor made personal attacks against CD or indeed Right Brain Ronnie on the grounds of their POVs despite voicing disagreement with them about the issues and fact checking their posts at times. In fact my relationship with them both remains civil and non-confrontational.

Challenging people on factual grounds politically and arguing about difference of opinion is entirely acceptable and it can be done without the personal insults imo.

This isn’t about who’s right or wrong ( I do agree with you and others on the substantive issues as it happens 90% of the time) but am just fed up with people banging on about these posters ad nauseam on every thread they post on until it dominates the discussion when they should just put them on ignore if they wind one up that much.

I appreciate you saying now you had taken it on board btw

 

[rogersix]

With regard to the £26bn, do you mean the £22bn black hole Reeves/Starmer talked about soon after getting into power? I'm not sure where he has since said that he doesn't know how big the black hole is - other than the comments that things may still be uncovered and may/will get worse before they get better. Can you provide a link to this please?

And that's not really a lie - that's being open and announcing changing situations as they become clearer.

Nor does it involve u-turns or promises, so we can discuss those later on maybe?

i'm gonna take a stab, this is one of the ones that goes unanswered, just a guess

 

[Bodian]

Er, I didn’t accuse any one of quoting my post so not sure what you mean by that.

My post on the US thread was completely ignored other than one sarcastic response/dig about me ignoring trolls ( suggesting that it was I that should be ignored) and another indirectly contradicting my suggestion that people should ignore posters who are winding them up because it would allow ’trolls’ airtime to keep posting - that same poster even suggested that the poster in question should be ‘dealt with’ by the mods when in fact both sides have been trolling each other on that thread for months.

You accuse me of being unfair yet you have just written a post accusing me of also trolling and attacking CD.

I have never trolled anyone back on that thread nor made personal attacks against CD or indeed Right Brain Ronnie despite voicing disagreement with them about the issues.

I have repeatedly asked certain posters to focus on the issues and candidates on the US thread because I am fed up with post after post being about another poster or by one poster defending themselves - as has happened on the political threads recently ( ie this one)

Challenging people on factual grounds politically and arguing about difference of opinion is entirely acceptable and it can be done without the personal insults - post after post of people making ad hominem attacks on the trolls and getting attacks launched back at them is not enjoyable reading, it simply derails the threads and is boring for the rest of us.

Okay - bit of semantics really. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. You said your suggestion 'went down like a ton of bricks' - and the general meaning of that is that the person has been reprimanded or punished or others have reacted strongly or emotionally. I was pointing out that no-one had quoted your post critically. The point I was making, but maybe not clearly, was that I couldn't see where the 'ton of bricks' analogy was - so I felt it was a bit unfair to use it about those of us on that thread. But I think what you're actually saying is that your post was ignored - which is quite a bit different!

I haven't said you were trolling or attacking CD, and didn't mean to imply that at all. Maybe we have different definitions of 'trolling'. I said that you 'challenged him'. Which you did - you told him what he had posted was irrelevant and queried whether he had actually read the article he was referring to. And to be fair - that's what the majority of us have done in one form or another. I don't think that is 'trolling' surely? I think the personal bits come after challenging them many times and getting nothing back - leading to a feeling of exasperation.

But yes - let's all cut back on the personal bits, and concentrate on the issues. I have no desire to fall out with you - as I enjoy your posts and find them interesting and illuminating. I wasn't having a go at you - so please don't take it that way.

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

With regard to the £26bn, do you mean the £22bn black hole Reeves/Starmer talked about soon after getting into power? I'm not sure where he has since said that he doesn't know how big the black hole is - other than the comments that things may still be uncovered and may/will get worse before they get better. Can you provide a link to this please?

And that's not really a lie - that's being open and announcing changing situations as they become clearer.

Nor does it involve u-turns or promises, so we can discuss those later on maybe?

I may have got the figures wrong but so did you!

This I posted on the meltdown thread and all of your ignored it, perhaps with good reason as this is as clear cut as it gets, guilty as charged Sir Keir.

Just one reason why labour have been tagged with Liebour.

Sir Keir Starmer showing how he can lie with no qualms just weeks after attacking Sunak, on the winter fuel payments and blaming them for a 46 billion pound black hole, this of course is the 20 billion black hole, that he didn't know about. And of course the winter payments he is now ditching.

The meltdown didn't even get a honeymoon.


Do you still trust this power crazed man ?

 

[Bodian]

I may have got the figures wrong but so did you!

This I posted on the meltdown thread and all of your ignored it, perhaps with good reason as this is as clear cut as it gets, guilty as charged Sir Keir.

Fair enough. But in opposition they wouldn't know the full figures.

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

i'm gonna take a stab, this is one of the ones that goes unanswered, just a guess

You could take a stab at I won't answer your spamming and you'd probably be right.

 

[Zeberdi]

Okay - bit of semantics really. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. You said your suggestion 'went down like a ton of bricks' - and the general meaning of that is that the person has been reprimanded or punished or others have reacted strongly or emotionally. I was pointing out that no-one had quoted your post critically. The point I was making, but maybe not clearly, was that I couldn't see where the 'ton of bricks' analogy was - so I felt it was a bit unfair to use it about those of us on that thread. But I think what you're actually saying is that your post was ignored - which is quite a bit different!

I haven't said you were trolling or attacking CD, and didn't mean to imply that at all. Maybe we have different definitions of 'trolling'. I said that you 'challenged him'. Which you did - you told him what he had posted was irrelevant and queried whether he had actually read the article he was referring to. And to be fair - that's what the majority of us have done in one form or another. I don't think that is 'trolling' surely? I think the personal bits come after challenging them many times and getting nothing back - leading to a feeling of exasperation.

But yes - let's all cut back on the personal bits, and concentrate on the issues. I have no desire to fall out with you - as I enjoy your posts and find them interesting and illuminating. I wasn't having a go at you - so please don't take it that way.

A very long post

Me ASKING politely if a poster had read a post because the response they made to an article link I posted was irrelevant to the article is very different in tone to how you suggested I ‘challenged’ CD.

It’s rather disingenous to equate that with all the personal attacks and insults that have been flying backwards and forewords on that thread and on this one which is what I was specifically referring to. It is also disingenuous to suggest that I was complaining about people correcting posters on factual grounds.

I Honestly can’t be bothered to keep arguing with you- my initial post stands as written: .

Trolling and people responding to it with endless personal attacks, calling them ‘deranged’, ‘mentally unsound’ or suggesting they don’t belong on NSC or have multiple accounts etc derails threads and is ultimately really boring for the rest of us...

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

Fair enough. But in opposition they wouldn't know the full figures.

So they say, I'm not having that, but for Keir to suggest it was an inflated 46 Billion is just pure lies. I am afraid he is probably the biggest control freak PM in my history of being on the planet.
This man has an obsession of control the head of the CPS shows he is addicted to control. His ears are closed imo.

 

[portslade seagull]

some are more prone than others tho, parties and politicians. no one can lie more than the self delusional, bungle, truss and nigel fascist, these types, with the personality disorders

Agree with Truss 2 weeks and ruined the economy, will probably make money on the after dinner circuit as fools will pay to listen to her blathering

 

[Bodian]

A very long post

Me ASKING politely if a poster had read a post because the response they made to an article link I posted was irrelevant to the article is very different in tone to how you suggested I ‘challenged’ CD.

It’s rather disingenous to equate that with all the personal attacks and insults that have been flying backwards and forewords on that thread and on this one which is what I was specifically referring to. It is also disingenuous to suggest that I was complaining about people correcting posters on factual grounds.

I Honestly can’t be bothered to keep arguing with you- my initial post stands as written: .

Trolling and people responding to it with endless personal attacks, calling them ‘deranged’, ‘mentally unsound’ or suggesting they don’t belong on NSC or have multiple accounts etc derails threads and is ultimately really boring for the rest of us...

I can't help but notice that you have substantively rewritten the post I was responding to (1845) whilst I was responding to it, so that may have lead to a little bit of misunderstanding between us as to what each of us were saying.

So we'll leave it there, and get back to the topic of the thread, as you suggest.

All the best.

 

[El Presidente]

I may have got the figures wrong but so did you!

This I posted on the meltdown thread and all of your ignored it, perhaps with good reason as this is as clear cut as it gets, guilty as charged Sir Keir.

TBF to Starmer he appears to have cured your dyslexia.

Starmer 1
Far Right Wrongie 0

 

[Zeberdi]

TBF to Starmer he appears to have cured your dyslexia.

Starmer 1
Far Right Wrongie 0

Seriously ?

How does this contribute to the thread topic?

 

[El Presidente]

Seriously ?

How does this contribute to the thread topic?

About as much as his drivel..

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

It may seem like an overly zealous control to you but imo the Tories presided over chaos and were the instigators of much of it:

The Country has been in chaos since the referendum, the management of the pandemic was chaotic, the economy under Truss especially was chaotic - labour relations in the public sector have been in chaos - immigration policy has been chaotic, the housing sector has been in chaos - I could go on.

As far as both Parties - The Tories were imploding whilst being the Party in Government- at least Stanmar had the decency to sort out the fractious and divisive threats in his Party before taking power.

I don’t think Stanmar is a ‘control freak’, I think he’s taking charge.

Something it seems the Tory Government struggled to do all the time they were in power.

I don't disagree with much of your post,but his control obsession was also visible there, yes he needed to sort them out. But he is using his consistent obsession of control in wrong ways, in a two tier way and that's what the public don't like.

Hence him being the most unpopular PM this early in his tenure.

 

[rogersix]

Agree with Truss 2 weeks and ruined the economy, will probably make money on the after dinner circuit as fools will pay to listen to her blathering

did you not have bungle down as a self delusional, compulsive liar?

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

About as much as his drivel..

Why do you keep trolling me, and disputing my dyslexia? Its a pretty low thing to do especially for a moderator, is power your thing? Squash the man in the street?
Ignored me if you like it might be the best thing for you.