[Politics] The Labour Government

[Right Brain Ronnie]

By increasing Tax and sending Billions overseas we can reverse "climate change" so we will all be better of in the end

You've nailed it!

 

[armchairclubber]

Quality as usual from CWS

 

[beorhthelm]

Which reminds me,



When you claimed that means testing the state pension 'had been floated' by the Government a couple of days ago, I asked for your source for this and still haven't had an answer. Maybe you missed it

i ignored it. made no reference to government, it's just a something that columnists, analysts, whatever, raise from time to time. let it be.

 

[WATFORD zero]

i ignored it. made no reference to government, it's just a something that columnists, analysts, whatever, raise from time to time. let it be.

But here, on the Labour Government thread, you said that means tested state pension 'had been floated' and added 'rather courageous politically'. Since columnists, analysts and 'whatever' aren't known for their 'political courage' who did you want people to think you were referring to ?

it has been floated. rather courageous politically, breaks the whole structure of NI. more obvious and fairer approach will be reducing the considerable tax relief for higher tax rate payers. still be able to save and get a decent pension, just without the full 40-45% bump from the treasury.

Or was it just

 

[The Clamp]

The finest example of pearl clutching we have seen from the Mail in some time…

 

[Bodian]

Oh look - all that moaning by some seems to have ben misplaced.

LNER train driver strikes called off after successful union talks

Planned 22 days of disrupted weekend services suspended with Aslef stating it has resolved a longstanding dispute

www.theguardian.com

 

[dsr-burnley]

I had always assumed tobacco tax pays far more than it costs the NHS but a quick google suggests it's the other way round. It's still a bit, well, long-term as a plan though. I mean nothing wrong with that while the sun is shining, but it's not - 14 years of incompetence and corruption has seen to that.

I don't know how much the average smoker costs the NHS in treatment, but I doubt it's £100k. The average lifelong smoker lives 10 years less than the non-smoker, which means 10 years less pension - that's £100k based on the average payment per pensioner.

There are plenty of reasons for wanting people to live longer and more healthily, but it won't save the government money.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I don't know how much the average smoker costs the NHS in treatment, but I doubt it's £100k. The average lifelong smoker lives 10 years less than the non-smoker, which means 10 years less pension - that's £100k based on the average payment per pensioner.

There are plenty of reasons for wanting people to live longer and more healthily, but it won't save the government money.

Have to agree. Absolute balderdash to claim this is about saving money.

Every one of those people will still die, but probably much later having used far more NHS resources than if they had died 10 or 15 years earlier. The government will have also lost income from tobacco tax and VAT on sales, and business tax on profits generated from retailers, wholesalers and manufacturers. Yes I have researched figures from independent sources but I have excluded that published by anti smoking group ASH as they have their own agenda.

We can all agree that stopping young people smoking can only be a good thing, and that smoking should remain banned in indoor public places. The new tobacco laws coming into effect regarding the legal age of purchase should achieve these goals and more given time. But a ban on outdoor smoking just smacks of Mr Starmer once again deciding that he knows best without listening to any evidence. As a Tory who recognises the shit show that the Conservatives became over the last 14 years I actually want this government to improve things for the people of the UK. This does very little in that sense and smacks of political dogma and correctness just like some of the ridiculous over reaction post Southport.

 

[armchairclubber]

The finest example of pearl clutching we have seen from the Mail in some time…


View attachment 188090

They shouldn't fear, he's just making space for this one

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Have to agree. Absolute balderdash to claim this is about saving money.

Every one of those people will still die, but probably much later having used far more NHS resources than if they had died 10 or 15 years earlier. The government will have also lost income from tobacco tax and VAT on sales, and business tax on profits generated from retailers, wholesalers and manufacturers. Yes I have researched figures from independent sources but I have excluded that published by anti smoking group ASH as they have their own agenda.

We can all agree that stopping young people smoking can only be a good thing, and that smoking should remain banned in indoor public places. The new tobacco laws coming into effect regarding the legal age of purchase should achieve these goals and more given time. But a ban on outdoor smoking just smacks of Mr Starmer once again deciding that he knows best without listening to any evidence. As a Tory who recognises the shit show that the Conservatives became over the last 14 years I actually want this government to improve things for the people of the UK. This does very little in that sense and smacks of political dogma and correctness just like some of the ridiculous over reaction post Southport.

If you’ve researched figures then you’ll surely see that smoking costs the NHS billions.

Government figures in 2017 show it was 2.6bn and you can see exactly where the costs are. It’s astonishing how much they clog up GP surgeries, their cost of nurse visits, prescriptions, hospital visits and outpatient and hospital visits. Smoking is a burden on the NHS, there’s no question about it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If you’ve researched figures then you’ll surely see that smoking costs the NHS billions.

Government figures in 2017 show it was 2.6bn and you can see exactly where the costs are. It’s astonishing how much they clog up GP surgeries, their cost of nurse visits, prescriptions, hospital visits and outpatient and hospital visits. Smoking is a burden on the NHS, there’s no question about it.

You have to applaud the argument of smokers though to say they generally die a lot earlier and therefore draw less pension. If they could make death even more sudden and requiring much less care, we could even bring smoking back inside if it makes an overall saving?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The finest example of pearl clutching we have seen from the Mail in some time…


View attachment 188090

I think I would have done the same…….

 

[Peteinblack]

The finest example of pearl clutching we have seen from the Mail in some time…


View attachment 188090

Snowflakes!

 

[cunning fergus]

If you’ve researched figures then you’ll surely see that smoking costs the NHS billions.

Government figures in 2017 show it was 2.6bn and you can see exactly where the costs are. It’s astonishing how much they clog up GP surgeries, their cost of nurse visits, prescriptions, hospital visits and outpatient and hospital visits. Smoking is a burden on the NHS, there’s no question about it.

Neurological degeneration is a relatively new kid on the NHS block and as we live longer thanks to healthier lifestyles, so the costs of dealing with it is already increasing.

According to the Alzheimer’s Society the current cost of dementia to the UK is forecast to be £42 billion in 2024, rising to £90 billion in 2040.

What are the costs of dementia diagnosis and care in the UK?

The current cost of dementia to the UK is forecast to be £42 billion in 2024, rising to £90 billion in 2040. Even though the number of people with dementia is growing, we are not investing enough in early diagnosis and face higher overall costs as a result.

search.app

Smoking reduces life expectancy and in comparison to the NHS and social care costs connected to managing degenerative disease, heavy smokers should be in the annual honours lists.

As ever this ban is based on political ideology, it will increase costs on councils and hospitality to enforce it and will add another layer to the already authoritarian state.

Legislating aggressively on the health of the nation is not new, and it ironic that the U.K. is at the forefront of it given this country’s more recent history with its leaders. You should know that, you live in Germany.

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't know how much the average smoker costs the NHS in treatment, but I doubt it's £100k. The average lifelong smoker lives 10 years less than the non-smoker, which means 10 years less pension - that's £100k based on the average payment per pensioner.

There are plenty of reasons for wanting people to live longer and more healthily, but it won't save the government money.

The Government has already laid the foundations on that to benefit the social care industry, so best thing to do if you have been a “citizen” or your parents have is hide the money……….

Government scraps cap on care costs to help tackle spending 'black hole' - Community Care

Cancelling adult social care charging reforms will save £1.1bn by end of next year, says chancellor Rachel Reeves

search.app

 

[wellquickwoody]

I had always assumed tobacco tax pays far more than it costs the NHS but a quick google suggests it's the other way round. It's still a bit, well, long-term as a plan though. I mean nothing wrong with that while the sun is shining, but it's not - 14 years of incompetence and corruption has seen to that.

Most of the reports claiming that costs outweigh income are quoting ASH, the anti smoking lobby. About as neutral as Russian state television.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You have to applaud the argument of smokers though to say they generally die a lot earlier and therefore draw less pension. If they could make death even more sudden and requiring much less care, we could even bring smoking back inside if it makes an overall saving?

You have to applaud the argument of smokers though to say they generally die a lot earlier and therefore draw less pension. If they could make death even more sudden and requiring much less care, we could even bring smoking back inside if it makes an overall saving?

Agree. It’s a very strange societal argument…a bit like the Alzeihmers versus smoking willy waving post above.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If you’ve researched figures then you’ll surely see that smoking costs the NHS billions.

Government figures in 2017 show it was 2.6bn and you can see exactly where the costs are. It’s astonishing how much they clog up GP surgeries, their cost of nurse visits, prescriptions, hospital visits and outpatient and hospital visits. Smoking is a burden on the NHS, there’s no question about it.

Tax from tobacco raises around 9 billion

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/tobacco-duties/#:~:text=Tobacco%20duties%20are%20levied%20on,and%20£302%20per%20household.


Tobacco duties are levied on purchases of cigarettes, hand-rolled tobacco, cigars and other forms of tobacco. In 2024-25 we estimate that tobacco duties will raise £8.8 billion. This represents 0.8 per cent of all receipts and is equivalent to 0.3 per cent of national income, and £302 per household. Duty on cigarettes accounts for the majority of all tobacco duty receipts.

 

[A1X]

Oh look - all that moaning by some seems to have ben misplaced.

LNER train driver strikes called off after successful union talks

Planned 22 days of disrupted weekend services suspended with Aslef stating it has resolved a longstanding dispute

www.theguardian.com

Staggering, so you’re saying that if companies and the Government actually negotiate with the trade unions rather than just posture and abuse then strikes can get called off?

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

Is there anyone in this forum still supporting Starmer?

Record low ratings at this stage, he always was a walking disaster, but to lead our country, which he doesn't even believe in, he makes me cringe when he stands by our union flag, its just another show of his deceit.

Starmer's ratings hit record low as cronyism row continues

To Downing Street, where it appears the new Prime Minister isn’t having the most pleasant of premierships. Sir Keir Starmer has been in the top job for less than two months – and yet he’s already facing a cronyism row that doesn’t appear to be disappearing. Despite the resignation of Labour...

www.spectator.co.uk