[Politics] The Labour Government

[dsr-burnley]

Perhaps this is where the unexplained "black hole" in the Tory budget. They hadn't allowed for all these above-inflation pay rises.

I wonder how the other public service unions are going to react? Will it be "the money's been spent, there won't be any pay rises for us" or is it going to be "strikers get big pay rises, let's go on strike"? Establishing the principle early in a 5-year parliament gives plenty of time for all the unions to come round again for more rounds of strikes.

 

[Berty23]

I am reading a book on my holiday called “how Westminster works….and why it doesn’t”

It is interesting and covers the issue of pay in the public sector. It has always struck me as odd when people moan about the quality of the public sector but then moan about it when they have to pay more to get better people. Think about it for a while. The book gives an example. A top graduate can enter civil service on c30k a year and after about 4 or 5 be earning 60 or so. The same graduate could start on 50 in the city and be on more than a permanent secretary (most senior civil servant in a department) would earn after 4 or 5 years.

Now does anyone have any idea why bright maths graduates might pick banking over civil service?

Other option join PWC or KPMG etc. similar story.

People should probably either
A) stop moaning about the quality of people in public sector
B) be prepared to pay them more.

I don’t think we can do neither.

 

[Rdodge30]

Big pay increases are great. I don’t think anybody would argue otherwise.

I haven’t spoken to anyone who is not pissed off that the train drivers who are on average £64,000 have just got £9000 a year increase.

 

[darkwolf666]

Perhaps this is where the unexplained "black hole" in the Tory budget. They hadn't allowed for all these above-inflation pay rises.

I wonder how the other public service unions are going to react? Will it be "the money's been spent, there won't be any pay rises for us" or is it going to be "strikers get big pay rises, let's go on strike"? Establishing the principle early in a 5-year parliament gives plenty of time for all the unions to come round again for more rounds of strikes.

Kicking the can down the road, by the previous incumbents, with regards the Post Office and the Bad Blood scandal, and the compensation that is now having to be paid out by the current government won't have helped either!

 

[BadFish]

I haven’t spoken to anyone who is not pissed off that the train drivers who are on average £64,000 have just got £9000 a year increase.

They don't even have to steer.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I haven’t spoken to anyone who is not pissed off that the train drivers who are on average £64,000 have just got £9000 a year increase.

Well meet me.

My concern in daily life is that stuff works properly. If I have to travel to work or the football I’d like the trains to be running. If I get sick or hurt I’d like a hospital bed or a GP appointment, rather than a trolley in a corridor or a phone call with a PA.

That places quite a bit higher than petty jealousy over what someone gets paid for doing a job I couldn’t.

 

[rogersix]

That old chestnut. These old right wingers whose deaths you cheerfully predict were brought up in the sixties. Flower people, drugs and free love, student riots, and so forth. They're conservative now, but they weren't then; it's a typical progression for people to move from left to right as they age; if only because taking wealth from the rich to give to the poor, is always more popular among the poor than it is among the rich.

Cool

 

[Bodian]

I am reading a book on my holiday called “how Westminster works….and why it doesn’t”

It is interesting and covers the issue of pay in the public sector. It has always struck me as odd when people moan about the quality of the public sector but then moan about it when they have to pay more to get better people. Think about it for a while. The book gives an example. A top graduate can enter civil service on c30k a year and after about 4 or 5 be earning 60 or so. The same graduate could start on 50 in the city and be on more than a permanent secretary (most senior civil servant in a department) would earn after 4 or 5 years.

Now does anyone have any idea why bright maths graduates might pick banking over civil service?

Other option join PWC or KPMG etc. similar story.

People should probably either
A) stop moaning about the quality of people in public sector
B) be prepared to pay them more.

I don’t think we can do neither.

And as ever - don't forget about the rest of the public sector. Us local government types who keep the roads and footpaths open, keep the bins emptied, etc, etc. Incredibly unlikely to be earning £60k in 4-5 years after starting. Indeed - unless in management; unlikely to earn over £45/50k ever.

 

[BLOCK F]

My. How we laughed.

Well, I chuckled

My. How we laughed.

And again!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I haven’t spoken to anyone who is not pissed off that the train drivers who are on average £64,000 have just got £9000 a year increase.

Read what this Tory MP said in Jan 2023

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well meet me.

My concern in daily life is that stuff works properly. If I have to travel to work or the football I’d like the trains to be running. If I get sick or hurt I’d like a hospital bed or a GP appointment, rather than a trolley in a corridor or a phone call with a PA.

That places quite a bit higher than petty jealousy over what someone gets paid for doing a job I couldn’t.

And me.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Perhaps this is where the unexplained "black hole" in the Tory budget. They hadn't allowed for all these above-inflation pay rises.

I wonder how the other public service unions are going to react? Will it be "the money's been spent, there won't be any pay rises for us" or is it going to be "strikers get big pay rises, let's go on strike"? Establishing the principle early in a 5-year parliament gives plenty of time for all the unions to come round again for more rounds of strikes.

Above inflation when they are based over three years?

 

[Bodian]

Above inflation when they are based over three years?

Especially as some of them are presumably settling previous year's pay claims - when inflation was higher?

 

[BenGarfield]

Big pay increases are great. I don’t think anybody would argue otherwise. There is of course the obvious question of where does the money come from?
And the new government do seem to have started in a very generous vein. I hope it's all in Rachel Reeves budget.
My concern is that this will lead to big inflation, and all the chaos that brings.

The money comes from key strokes on a computer not tax. Inflation results when there is a shortage of real resources. As a country we ar not in that postion. To paraphrase Keynes - "what we can do we can afford"

 

[MattBackHome]

I haven’t spoken to anyone who is not pissed off that the train drivers who are on average £64,000 have just got £9000 a year increase.

I haven't had any conversations with anyone ever about how much train drivers are paid.

 

[Me Atome]

The money comes from key strokes on a computer not tax. Inflation results when there is a shortage of real resources. As a country we ar not in that postion. To paraphrase Keynes - "what we can do we can afford"

Labour is a real resource. It is of limited availability. Thus, when the cost goes up, that is inflation. To avoid that cost increase, we import labour from overseas, whether that's skilled surgeons or unskilled fruit pickers.

 

[BenGarfield]

Labour is a real resource. It is of limited availability. Thus, when the cost goes up, that is inflation. To avoid that cost increase, we import labour from overseas, whether that's skilled surgeons or unskilled fruit pickers.

Firstly, I`m not sure if there is a shortage of train drivers globally (although another poster points out problems on LNER) - train some more? Fruit pickers there seem to be (maybe pay them more?) I disagree with your definiton of inflation. A one off increase in price is not infaltion. Inflation is the continouous rise in the price level, so the price level has to be rising for a number of time periods. Also, the government, in terms of the train drivers, doesnt have to increase train fares as a result. That is their policy choice. I would argue for a drastic reduction in the cost of rail travel as we have some of the most expensive fares in Europe. Even if a negotiated pay increase for the doctors or rail workers might result in an increase in prices, this might be a necessary but not sufficient condition for an inflationary process to unfold.

 

[A1X]

I haven’t spoken to anyone who is not pissed off that the train drivers who are on average £64,000 have just got £9000 a year increase.

You have some weird conversations

 

[Rdodge30]

Well meet me.

I’ll take a pass if that’s ok

And me

Ditto …. All I need now is Watford Zero for the hat trick!!


It doesn’t have to be petty jealousy though does it? That’s a very opinionated and short sighted view.

There are many anti monarchists in this country, I don’t expect it’s out of petty jealousy or that they would like Buckingham Palace for themselves.

These pay rises will result in either tax increases, even more expensive rail fares, inflation or all 3.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’ll take a pass if that’s ok

Ditto …. All I need now is Watford Zero for the hat trick!!


It doesn’t have to be petty jealousy though does it? That’s a very opinionated and short sighted view.

There are many anti monarchists in this country, I don’t expect it’s out of petty jealousy or that they would like Buckingham Palace for themselves.

These pay rises will result in either tax increases, even more expensive rail fares, inflation or all 3.

Yeah I guess if they don't like the wages they should just get a better job.

I guess we could sack the staff and replace them with slaves

Or may we could try the labour way.