[Politics] The Labour Government

[Pondicherry]

 

[A1X]

Known troublemaker causes trouble

Film at 11

 

[Sirnormangall]

How long to the Ginger Growler takes over

Would be hilarious if it wasn’t so serious

 

[Bry Nylon]

Known troublemaker causes trouble

I'd agree to an extent and that is certainly "the line" that Morgan McSweeny will be sending out for Labour MPs to use. In fairness, there really isn't much else they can say.

The problem is, there is so much in it and so much that has just enough of an element of truth to it. Not just the accepting of gifts and 'cruel' policies that don't directly impact on anybody in the House etc; but more the stuff about his rapid rise, perceived lack of political skills and a sense that this isn't an isolated view among the PLP. This is all new stuff for the media to latch onto and has the potential to be very damaging. Dangerous for the Leadership if they just try to dismiss it as the ramblings of a disaffected trouble-maker, in my view.

 

[Chicken Run]

Get ready for a

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04pe3653k7o

 

[dsr-burnley]

The real story ?? "pensioners freezing to death in their homes". can you show me any story this Autumn(not even cold yet) where any pensioner has frozen to death in their home ??

The point about pensioners freezing to death, is that the Labour party published a report in 2017 stating that the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance had saved approx 3,850 lives per year on average for the previous 20 years, and withdrawal of that allowance would kill 3,850 per year in future. It even mentions the detail about pensioners just over the pension credit limit.

I am not aware that they have withdrawn that opinion and denounced it as a load of rubbish. Which means that it still stands as official Labour viewpoint and that they have withdrawn the allowance in full expectation that they will kill 3,850 pensioners (approx) by doing so.

Which means that we don't need to argue about how many people will die - the government has given us their official estimate of 3,850. All we need worry about now is whether the government is right to allow those people to die in order to save their £1.4 billion.

Winter fuel payment cut could kill 4,000 people, Labour’s own research suggests

Analysis published by Labour in 2017 said plans to means test winter fuel payments would be the ‘single biggest attack on pensioners in a generation’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[dsr-burnley]

This whole "giftgate" issue with Starmer started because he misdeclared Alli's gifts to his wife. He didn't know he had to declare them so he got his form wrong and had to correct it. The stuff about the clothes he had received personally was already in the public domain but no-one had bothered. He opened the whole can of worms himself.

The Arsenal tickets ought to be a non-event. It's perfectly reasonable IMO for the PM to sit in the director's box. Burnley's MP (Peter Pike) I believe had his own season ticket before, during and after his term as MP, but if he did have a director's box ticket then it bothered no-one. Blackburn's MP (and for that matter Blackburn's bishop) had seats in the main stand with their name on it, long ago in the pre-Jack Walker days. Whether they still do, I neither know nor care. It's trivial.

The vastly expensive clothes, especially to his wife, are dodgy.

But even more dodgy is that living accommodation. Firstly, the idea of sitting in someone else's house telling people they should work from home, is hypocritical at best. One quote from his speech was "Let’s pull together now and do the right thing once more. At times like this, we must all put the national interest first and play by the rules. Of course, I understand that sticking to the rules can be inconvenient, but stick to the rules we must.” To say that with a straight face while not working from home is dishonest, and frankly I don't see it as less reprehensible than what Johnson and Cummings did.

And now he says he moved into Alli's flat for 45 nights because he wanted his son to have peace and quiet for GSCE revision. This is a lie. He moved in on 29th May, GCSEs finished on June 19th, he left on July 13th. He was there for at least 24 days after his son's last exam. Whatever his reasons may have been for the first 21 nights, his reason for the rest is a lie. And a stupid lie, because it's so easily caught.

This is another quote from Starmer. "The Seven Principles of Public Life, external, as they are also known, are selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty and leadership. That is the standards I expect of them [government ministers]. As I’ve said throughout, people falling short of the required standards will face consequences, as you would expect.” Does he stand by that? How many of the seven principles, if any, has he achieved?

Starmer’s Covid broadcast urging work from home recorded in donor’s £18m penthouse

The Christmas broadcast aired on December 13 2021, the same day new Covid guidance urging people to work from home came into force.

www.independent.co.uk

Starmer Massively Under-Declared Value of 45 Nights in Lord Alli’s £18 Million Penthouse

When Starmer revealed he had "moved" into Alli's £18 million Covent Garden penthouse for 45 nights this summer—leaning on his son as a convenient

order-order.com

Keir Starmer pledges to beef up standards watchdog rules

Keir Starmer says his ethics adviser should be able to launch inquiries without the nod from No 10.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jcdenton08]

T

The point about pensioners freezing to death, is that the Labour party published a report in 2017 stating that the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance had saved approx 3,850 lives per year on average for the previous 20 years, and withdrawal of that allowance would kill 3,850 per year in future. It even mentions the detail about pensioners just over the pension credit limit.

I am not aware that they have withdrawn that opinion and denounced it as a load of rubbish. Which means that it still stands as official Labour viewpoint and that they have withdrawn the allowance in full expectation that they will kill 3,850 pensioners (approx) by doing so.

Which means that we don't need to argue about how many people will die - the government has given us their official estimate of 3,850. All we need worry about now is whether the government is right to allow those people to die in order to save their £1.4 billion.

Winter fuel payment cut could kill 4,000 people, Labour’s own research suggests

Analysis published by Labour in 2017 said plans to means test winter fuel payments would be the ‘single biggest attack on pensioners in a generation’

www.independent.co.uk

The problem is they know all this, but no amount of persuasion will ever change a lifelong supporter of a political party to another - or in extreme cases as we’ve seen - to countenance valid criticisms of their “baby”. The same thing on all sides, whether you’re red, green or blue.

There is a real case of indoctrination (look at Trump supporters in the US for an extreme example) in all aspects of UK politics.

Right now, the Labour hardcore even on here can’t quite believe what’s happened, so deflect, defend, obfuscate.

This has been one of the worst starts to an incoming government in British political history.

 

[sydney]

This whole "giftgate" issue with Starmer started because he misdeclared Alli's gifts to his wife. He didn't know he had to declare them so he got his form wrong and had to correct it. The stuff about the clothes he had received personally was already in the public domain but no-one had bothered. He opened the whole can of worms himself.

The Arsenal tickets ought to be a non-event. It's perfectly reasonable IMO for the PM to sit in the director's box. Burnley's MP (Peter Pike) I believe had his own season ticket before, during and after his term as MP, but if he did have a director's box ticket then it bothered no-one. Blackburn's MP (and for that matter Blackburn's bishop) had seats in the main stand with their name on it, long ago in the pre-Jack Walker days. Whether they still do, I neither know nor care. It's trivial.

The vastly expensive clothes, especially to his wife, are dodgy.

But even more dodgy is that living accommodation. Firstly, the idea of sitting in someone else's house telling people they should work from home, is hypocritical at best. One quote from his speech was "Let’s pull together now and do the right thing once more. At times like this, we must all put the national interest first and play by the rules. Of course, I understand that sticking to the rules can be inconvenient, but stick to the rules we must.” To say that with a straight face while not working from home is dishonest, and frankly I don't see it as less reprehensible than what Johnson and Cummings did.

And now he says he moved into Alli's flat for 45 nights because he wanted his son to have peace and quiet for GSCE revision. This is a lie. He moved in on 29th May, GCSEs finished on June 19th, he left on July 13th. He was there for at least 24 days after his son's last exam. Whatever his reasons may have been for the first 21 nights, his reason for the rest is a lie. And a stupid lie, because it's so easily caught.

This is another quote from Starmer. "The Seven Principles of Public Life, external, as they are also known, are selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty and leadership. That is the standards I expect of them [government ministers]. As I’ve said throughout, people falling short of the required standards will face consequences, as you would expect.” Does he stand by that? How many of the seven principles, if any, has he achieved?

Starmer’s Covid broadcast urging work from home recorded in donor’s £18m penthouse

The Christmas broadcast aired on December 13 2021, the same day new Covid guidance urging people to work from home came into force.

www.independent.co.uk

Starmer Massively Under-Declared Value of 45 Nights in Lord Alli’s £18 Million Penthouse

When Starmer revealed he had "moved" into Alli's £18 million Covent Garden penthouse for 45 nights this summer—leaning on his son as a convenient

order-order.com

Keir Starmer pledges to beef up standards watchdog rules

Keir Starmer says his ethics adviser should be able to launch inquiries without the nod from No 10.

www.bbc.co.uk

i take it you're not a fan then... i just think that targeting people who have largely worked and paid taxes for years by removing their heating allowance is reprehensible , disgusting policy.

 

[sydney]

T

The problem is they know all this, but no amount of persuasion will ever change a lifelong supporter of a political party to another - or in extreme cases as we’ve seen - to countenance valid criticisms of their “baby”. The same thing on all sides, whether you’re red, green or blue.

There is a real case of indoctrination (look at Trump supporters in the US for an extreme example) in all aspects of UK politics.

Right now, the Labour hardcore even on here can’t quite believe what’s happened, so deflect, defend, obfuscate.

This has been one of the worst starts to an incoming government in British political history.

i know plenty of Labour supporters who have turned due to this idiot.

 

[highflyer]

Live by the sword, die by the sword, I'm afraid. The labour right has spent the last 9 years focussing on personal attacks on those they oppose (within and beyond their own party), as opposed to developing a clear, inspiring vision for how to move the country forward. Now they can't be too surprised that, in an ongoing policy vacuum (well, apart from 'more austerity and be nice to the rich' tbf), the same kind of attacks are aimed at them. Especially when they provide such easy targets.

 

[Boroseagull]

The UK needs to adopt the Swedish MP's method of reimbursements.

No perks for Swedish MPs

Everyone, including the prime minister and judges, must live in conditions similar to voters

mg.co.za

 

[armchairclubber]

I found this part of Rosie Duffield letter most revealing.

You also made the choice not to speak up once about the Labour Party's problems with antisemitism during your time in the shadow cabinet, leaving that to backbenchers, including new MPs such as me.

Since you took office as Leader of the Opposition you have used various heavy-handed management tactics but have never shown what most experienced backbenchers would recognise as true or inspiring leadership.

You have never regularly engaged with your own backbench MPs, many of whom have been in Parliament far longer than you, and some of whom served in the previous Labour government.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Labour, was quite rightly trying to rid itself of any antisemitism.

But the likes of Keir Starmer and ''Zionist Shitlord' Luke Akehurst were doing their best to undermine this. Both Zionists who are not Jewish. And one now found a safe seat.

All while Labour was becoming more influenced by and taking donations from Israel lobby etc.

Antisemitism is perhaps 'in the eye of the beholder' to an extent, though I'd suggest Labour has an even greater problem now thanks to slippery Starmer and his disciples.

 

[nevergoagain]

Rosie Duffield is a strange one. To resign so soon after a general election where your party has absolutely nailed it suggests that she's probably not the sort you really want in your party anyway.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

This whole "giftgate" issue with Starmer started because he misdeclared Alli's gifts to his wife. He didn't know he had to declare them so he got his form wrong and had to correct it. The stuff about the clothes he had received personally was already in the public domain but no-one had bothered. He opened the whole can of worms himself.

The Arsenal tickets ought to be a non-event. It's perfectly reasonable IMO for the PM to sit in the director's box. Burnley's MP (Peter Pike) I believe had his own season ticket before, during and after his term as MP, but if he did have a director's box ticket then it bothered no-one. Blackburn's MP (and for that matter Blackburn's bishop) had seats in the main stand with their name on it, long ago in the pre-Jack Walker days. Whether they still do, I neither know nor care. It's trivial.

The vastly expensive clothes, especially to his wife, are dodgy.

But even more dodgy is that living accommodation. Firstly, the idea of sitting in someone else's house telling people they should work from home, is hypocritical at best. One quote from his speech was "Let’s pull together now and do the right thing once more. At times like this, we must all put the national interest first and play by the rules. Of course, I understand that sticking to the rules can be inconvenient, but stick to the rules we must.” To say that with a straight face while not working from home is dishonest, and frankly I don't see it as less reprehensible than what Johnson and Cummings did.

And now he says he moved into Alli's flat for 45 nights because he wanted his son to have peace and quiet for GSCE revision. This is a lie. He moved in on 29th May, GCSEs finished on June 19th, he left on July 13th. He was there for at least 24 days after his son's last exam. Whatever his reasons may have been for the first 21 nights, his reason for the rest is a lie. And a stupid lie, because it's so easily caught.

This is another quote from Starmer. "The Seven Principles of Public Life, external, as they are also known, are selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty and leadership. That is the standards I expect of them [government ministers]. As I’ve said throughout, people falling short of the required standards will face consequences, as you would expect.” Does he stand by that? How many of the seven principles, if any, has he achieved?

Starmer’s Covid broadcast urging work from home recorded in donor’s £18m penthouse

The Christmas broadcast aired on December 13 2021, the same day new Covid guidance urging people to work from home came into force.

www.independent.co.uk

Starmer Massively Under-Declared Value of 45 Nights in Lord Alli’s £18 Million Penthouse

When Starmer revealed he had "moved" into Alli's £18 million Covent Garden penthouse for 45 nights this summer—leaning on his son as a convenient

order-order.com

Keir Starmer pledges to beef up standards watchdog rules

Keir Starmer says his ethics adviser should be able to launch inquiries without the nod from No 10.

www.bbc.co.uk

Let's not forget at this point Starmer wanted the country in a full lockdown as well

 

[armchairclubber]

Rosie Duffield is a strange one. To resign so soon after a general election where your party has absolutely nailed it suggests that she's probably not the sort you really want in your party anyway.

She is no doubt now going to face counter attacks from the Labour hierarchy (still waiting on their response) as well as others who wish to highlight other stances she has made.

 

[sydney]

I found this part of Rosie Duffield letter most revealing.

You also made the choice not to speak up once about the Labour Party's problems with antisemitism during your time in the shadow cabinet, leaving that to backbenchers, including new MPs such as me.

Since you took office as Leader of the Opposition you have used various heavy-handed management tactics but have never shown what most experienced backbenchers would recognise as true or inspiring leadership.

You have never regularly engaged with your own backbench MPs, many of whom have been in Parliament far longer than you, and some of whom served in the previous Labour government.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Labour, was quite rightly trying to rid itself of any antisemitism.

But the likes of Keir Starmer and ''Zionist Shitlord' Luke Akehurst were doing their best to undermine this. Both Zionists who are not Jewish. And one now found a safe seat.

All while Labour was becoming more influenced by and taking donations from Israel lobby etc.

Antisemitism is perhaps 'in the eye of the beholder' to an extent, though I'd suggest Labour has an even greater problem now thanks to slippery Starmer and his disciples.

antisemitism is a very strange thing to define isn't it , particularly in the current climate.

 

[armchairclubber]

antisemitism is a very strange thing to define isn't it , particularly in the current climate.

Whilst I don't wish to involve myself in your discussion elsewhere, yes it certainly is.
It's a difficult subject to find agreement on.

 

[Boroseagull]

How long to the Ginger Growler takes over

I'm reliably informed by Mrs BS that a 'growler' in girl talk is a stray pubic hair protruding from a swimsuit.

 

[sydney]

Whilst I don't wish to involve myself in your discussion elsewhere, yes it certainly is.
It's a difficult subject to find agreement on.

that discussion is finished.