[Albion] The king is dead

[Kalimantan Gull]

This is really painful, so many people simply focusing on what Stephens does with the ball. Sake, thats not his main role in the team. His best work is when he doesn't have the ball and that s where he was excellent today.

Propper simply goes missing when we don't have the ball. If people want Propper to be our holding midfielder, it won't be pretty

Propper does with the ball what we want from Stephens. But if he is to be the more advanced midfielder, he should offer so much more with the ball

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

This is really painful, so many people simply focusing on what Stephens does with the ball. Sake, thats not his main role in the team. His best work is when he doesn't have the ball and that s where he was excellent today.

Propper simply goes missing when we don't have the ball. If people want Propper to be our holding midfielder, it won't be pretty

Propper does with the ball what we want from Stephens. But if he is to be the more advanced midfielder, he should offer so much more with the ball

I fear that if we want to progress and insist on playing CH’s present formation, then neither Stephens not Propper is good emough. If we want to stand still until we’re eventually overtaken, then they’re adequate. Propper can’t really defend and is an especial liability at set plays because he doesn’t like heading the ball. As has often been said, he’d be better further forward. Stephens is too negative on the ball. If we played as West Ham do, then Stephens could play the Declan Rice role perfectly well, with Propper where Snodgrass is. But you need players who can do a bit of everything in a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1.

 

[BN9 BHA]

. His best work is when he doesn't have the ball

Agreed, he can't give it away then.

 

[Hugo Rune]

This is really painful, so many people simply focusing on what Stephens does with the ball.

If we want to develop into a top 15 team, then this is the critical focus.

If we want to be a defensive minded team aiming for 17th or better - he is your man.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I agree that Bissouma should have started as he is a far superior player and I’m not a massive Stephens fan but the picking of Stephens alone wasn’t the main issue today.

It was picking Stephens, Gross and Murray together. We just cant afford to play those three who all (to borrow a comment from another poster today) run like they have a piano strapped to their back. We are incredibly slow and immobile and it really holds us back.

For me Propper should always start with Bissouma as I think the two of them are class but with Propper in addition to the Stephens, Gross and Murray we offer nothing going forward. We’re dreadful in transition as we start deep and then none of them have the pace to get up the pitch. It is a big issue.

 

[blockhseagull]

This is really painful, so many people simply focusing on what Stephens does with the ball. Sake, thats not his main role in the team. His best work is when he doesn't have the ball and that s where he was excellent today.

Propper simply goes missing when we don't have the ball. If people want Propper to be our holding midfielder, it won't be pretty

Propper does with the ball what we want from Stephens. But if he is to be the more advanced midfielder, he should offer so much more with the ball

So you can’t judge Stephens with the ball because it’s not his role ?

But you can judge Propper without the ball ?

I’m assuming the reason for this is because it’s the only way you can justify Stephens role in the side ?

Stephens today was ponderous, slow and miles off the pace.

 

[Medwayseagull]

Stephens was excellent, sorry but I don't need Danny Higginbotham to agree with me.

The trouble is nobody agrees with you.

 

[HP Seagull]

Funny how people see things differently. Bernardo was a deserved man of the match but Propper ran him close. Excellent distribution, intelligent use of the ball and kept things ticking over (and outstanding for the goal).

Stephens was woeful in the first half but improved second. I’d like to see Bissouma in the team, but I’m not sure who he would replace. When fit Stephens and Propper are fit they’re two of Hughton’s most trusted players, which they’ve earnt over time. Unfortunately Stephens hasn’t been as effective in recent months as he’s up against better players.

 

[mune ni kamome]

I’m in the Stephens was poor today camp. However, been out for 3 games and Chelski were very good. All of our players were struggling for time and space so probably best not to judge too harshly today

 

[Dave the OAP]

Stephens was excellent, sorry but I don't need Danny Higginbotham to agree with me.

Were you there?

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

This is really painful, so many people simply focusing on what Stephens does with the ball. Sake, thats not his main role in the team. His best work is when he doesn't have the ball and that s where he was excellent today.

Propper simply goes missing when we don't have the ball. If people want Propper to be our holding midfielder, it won't be pretty

Propper does with the ball what we want from Stephens. But if he is to be the more advanced midfielder, he should offer so much more with the ball

You seem to be on your own with the opinion Stephens was excellent today. Appreciate your loyalty but come on, he really wasn’t very good today at all.

He is also not as good off the ball as you say he is. His positioning is sometimes very poor, that’s why he makes so many poor and rash challenges trying to recover. Having no pace doesn’t help. Propper is wasted having to cover for him a lot of the time.

He’s been a great servant for us and is a very good top Championship/bottom of premier league player but if we want to cement ourselves as a mid table premier league side, we need better than him and Kayal for that. Fortunately Propper and Bissouma both are.

 

[Doonhamer7]

Today Stephens seem to win his tackles then pass to the opposition- negating his good work. He slows the game down too much which is fine if your Xabi Alonso type player which he certainly isn’t. I feel he is now our 4th best central midfielder

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

So you can’t judge Stephens with the ball because it’s not his role ?

But you can judge Propper without the ball ?

I’m assuming the reason for this is because it’s the only way you can justify Stephens role in the side ?

Stephens today was ponderous, slow and miles off the pace.

Thats not really what I said - its just about different roles in a team and expectations from a player. I might as well copy what I've posted on another thread...

I'm trying to work out how I watched a game and liked what I saw from Stephens and less what i saw from Propper, and yet to a man everyone on here thinks the opposite. So far I have 32 post quotes telling me I'm an idiot (edit make that 38 now )

The way I read it, every criticism of Stephens is that he gave the ball away a bit much and passed the ball sideways, and the praise for Propper is that he was tidy and moved the ball around nicely. I fully agree with both appraisals of those parts of the game, and so the crux of my different opinion is (1) that there was much more to both players games than that, and (2) they play different roles in the team.

When the opposition has the ball Propper does little but mark space but Stephens gets involved. I always value the player that gets involved, and although Stephens lost the ball a few times, he also won it or a forced a mistake on many occasions.

When we get the ball I expect Stephens to play a simple sideways pass, that's who he is and that's all I expect fro a guy who's main role is destructive. Propper I think can do so much more - and the more advanced CM SHOULD do more - and yet he was repeatedly turning today and switching it to the centrebacks., he did some nice stuff too on occasion, and his cross ball to Gross was great, but there was very little drive in his game for the most part.

Thats what I think Bissouma can do, the drive to move the ball forward, and its in Propper's role where that should be coming and leave Stephens to do the destructive stuff.


...

I fully accept I am in a tiny minority in my appraisal of todays game

 

[blockhseagull]

You seem to be on your own with the opinion Stephens was excellent today. Appreciate your loyalty but come on, he really wasn’t very good today at all.

He is also not as good off the ball as you say he is. His positioning is sometimes very poor, that’s why he makes so many poor and rash challenges trying to recover. Having no pace doesn’t help. Propper is wasted having to cover for him a lot of the time.

He’s been a great servant for us and is a very good top Championship/bottom of premier league player but if we want to cement ourselves as a mid table premier league side, we need better than him and Kayal for that. Fortunately Propper and Bissouma both are.

Was just about to post this myself

IF Stephens is as good off the ball as it’s claimed why does he dive into so many challenges and give away free kicks.

Also why has the midfield looked so much better both with the ball and without it since Stephens was out of the side

 

[blockhseagull]

Thats not really what I said - its just about different roles in a team and expectations from a player. I might as well copy what I've posted on another thread...

I'm trying to work out how I watched a game and liked what I saw from Stephens and less what i saw from Propper, and yet to a man everyone on here thinks the opposite. So far I have 32 post quotes telling me I'm an idiot (edit make that 38 now )

The way I read it, every criticism of Stephens is that he gave the ball away a bit much and passed the ball sideways, and the praise for Propper is that he was tidy and moved the ball around nicely. I fully agree with both appraisals of those parts of the game, and so the crux of my different opinion is (1) that there was much more to both players games than that, and (2) they play different roles in the team.

When the opposition has the ball Propper does little but mark space but Stephens gets involved. I always value the player that gets involved, and although Stephens lost the ball a few times, he also won it or a forced a mistake on many occasions.

When we get the ball I expect Stephens to play a simple sideways pass, that's who he is and that's all I expect fro a guy who's main role is destructive. Propper I think can do so much more - and the more advanced CM SHOULD do more - and yet he was repeatedly turning today and switching it to the centrebacks., he did some nice stuff too on occasion, and his cross ball to Gross was great, but there was very little drive in his game for the most part.

Thats what I think Bissouma can do, the drive to move the ball forward, and its in Propper's role where that should be coming and leave Stephens to do the destructive stuff.


...

I fully accept I am in a tiny minority in my appraisal of todays game

But Stephens ISNT that good without the ball.

I actually expect far far more out of a midfielder than to ‘get involved’ and then pass the ball sideways when he has it.

 

[AmexRuislip]

It's great to see the fans having team selection problems, as well as CH!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

But Stephens ISNT that good without the ball.

I actually expect far far more out of a midfielder than to ‘get involved’ and then pass the ball sideways when he has it.

Alright, excellent was too strong, I know, but I resented the opening post in this thread. There were long periods when Chelsea had the ball in the first half and I was impressed with how much he was showing up. In the second half he won the ball a lot, and then gave it to Propper.

and sorry to labour a point, but Propper didn't get involved, and then passed sideways

 

[blockhseagull]

Alright, excellent was too strong, I know, but I resented the opening post in this thread. There were long periods when Chelsea had the ball in the first half and I was impressed with how much he was showing up. In the second half he won the ball a lot, and then gave it to Propper.

and sorry to labour a point, but Propper didn't get involved, and then passed sideways

So if Stephens gets so much more INVOLVED than Propper how come they have pretty similar stats this season ?

Would appear they tackle the same amount win and lose the same amount of challenges and have a similar amount of clearances

In fact Propper actually rates higher than Stephens in several ‘defensive’ categories so to say he does nothing when he doesn’t have the ball is naive and ill informed.

 

[Prettyboyshaw]

Stephens is a good player for a Championship team but nowhere near Premier standards the amount of misplaced passes he makes considering they are all sideways! None of the team can say they had a good first 60 minutes but when we stopped taking selfies and applauding Hazard we actually played okay. We are never going to out skill the top six or break them down with our 30 side passes in our own half, but when we pressure them rattle them and press forward we actually may get more than a swapped shirt.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Alright, excellent was too strong, I know, but I resented the opening post in this thread. There were long periods when Chelsea had the ball in the first half and I was impressed with how much he was showing up. In the second half he won the ball a lot, and then gave it to Propper.

and sorry to labour a point, but Propper didn't get involved, and then passed sideways

Do we need a player like Stephens in the team though, a player who consistently (at this level) offer so little going forward with the ball?

I believe that Bissouma or Kayal can do a reasonable defensive role (admittedly not the same as Stephens) but can attack the opposition so much better. With Duffy, Dunk, Bernardo & Ryan playing so well, should our central midfield be a little more attacking? Especially with Groß dropping back to help on occasion.

I really can’t see Stephens starting any games where we have a good chance of getting 3 points (not that today was one).