The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[Simster]

Says he man who linked the words 'rabid' and 'Brexit', and labelled those opposed to a second referendum as clowns!

Still, I've obviously upset you quite enough for one day, so I'll leave you with the last word. Whatever you say is right.

What I actually said was that NOT all brexit voters were rabid. It really is you who is the one who gets all stroppy and name calling at people opposing his point of view, not me. You've done it time and time again on the referendum thread. And no, you haven't really upset me at all. I feel I've comfortably owned you, to be honest.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Burnham is the sortvi mean, acceptable to non Labour voters

Dan Jarvis for me.

Burnham flip flops too much for me.

 

[larus]

I take your point, but in 4 years time we will have a good idea what sort of deal has been negotiated by the Brexit team. The GE will be as good a time as any for the electorate to vote on it. Personally, I fully expect it to be a shockingly crap deal seeing as the EU hold all the aces. We have already seen back tracking on the £350m per week NHS tag line, and now apparently the points system won't be happening either - yet this board was full of people telling us that was the only way to control our borders properly.

I never voted Brexit on the basis of the £350m/week to the NHS. I knew it wouldn't be spent on the NHS. My decision was based on my desire to regain the ability to create our own laws/regulations and not have the un-elected bureaucrats dictating to us.

As for back-tracking on the points system, I really don't understand how intelligent people (and IMO your posts portray that ) cannot understand that Farage was and is not in power. He proposed this (along with others on the Brexit side), but it's the Government (not the Brexit campaign) who will negotiate the terms of our relationship. May was on the Remain side and she has made this statement, so how can this be Brexit changing policy. If anything, this is Remain undermining the vote.

The same applies when people say we should have known what we would get post Brexit. It's bloody impossible to say, as it will be the result of negotiations. THE BREXIT 'TEAM' DO NO DICTATE THE TERMS TO THE EU, the elected government will negotiate and barter. If people don't understand this, then they are just too thick to have a sensible debate with.

 

[Simster]

I never voted Brexit on the basis of the £350m/week to the NHS. I knew it wouldn't be spent on the NHS. My decision was based on my desire to regain the ability to create our own laws/regulations and not have the un-elected bureaucrats dictating to us.

As for back-tracking on the points system, I really don't understand how intelligent people (and IMO your posts portray that ) cannot understand that Farage was and is not in power. He proposed this (along with others on the Brexit side), but it's the Government (not the Brexit campaign) who will negotiate the terms of our relationship. May was on the Remain side and she has made this statement, so how can this be Brexit changing policy. If anything, this is Remain undermining the vote.

The same applies when people say we should have known what we would get post Brexit. It's bloody impossible to say, as it will be the result of negotiations. THE BREXIT 'TEAM' DO NO DICTATE THE TERMS TO THE EU, the elected government will negotiate and barter. If people don't understand this, then they are just too thick to have a sensible debate with.

Seeing as we're being NICE [MENTION=240]larus[/MENTION], I quite enjoy reading your posts despite not agreeing with you much on economic policy, but your posts are articulate and well presented.

That said, I sort of agree with you here that we have no idea what we would get post Brexit because it will be as a result of negotiations. So with that in mind, would you have a problem with the electorate rubber stamping Brexit, based on the outcome of those negotiations?

 

[larus]

Seeing as we're being NICE @larus, I quite enjoy reading your posts despite not agreeing with you much on economic policy, but your posts are articulate and well presented.

That said, I sort of agree with you here that we have no idea what we would get post Brexit because it will be as a result of negotiations. So with that in mind, would you have a problem with the electorate rubber stamping Brexit, based on the outcome of those negotiations?

Hey, we can't have this being nice - we have reputations to uphold you know.

The major problem I would have with that is that the political class are opposed to Brexit (IMO because they like the gravy train that it provides - for example, look at Kinnock), and by allowing such an outcome COULD give them the incentive to 'negotiate' a bad outcome, hoping that the electorate would be so scared of draconian trading conditions with the EU, that they would vote to stay in. Also, it could add an incentive to the EU to also adopt a similar approach.

I accept that leaving the EU is a leap into the unknown, but my nature is optimistic and I actually have a high degree of confidence in the British character (as a generalisation) to adapt and succeed.

Regarding economic policy, I honestly believe that most people in this country have the same desire and, if we were to discuss what we wanted it would be very similar, but with slightly different views on how to achieve.
For example :

Fair taxation.
A tax system where avoidance is minimised (it will never be avoided).
Good public services, provided free at the point of delivery. I don't have an ideology regarding state ownership/privatisation- I don't oppose companies making profits in providing public services, but the services must be well run and staff must be accountable and perform too.
Stop the abuse of the welfare system (i.e. welfare should be seen as a benefit and not a life-style choice).
An acceptance that the NHS cannot provide everything, that everyone wants.
Etc.

 

[Surf's Up]

Good piece on Corbyn's appeal here:

https://middlevision.wordpress.com/2016/09/07/the-blank-canvas/

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Corbyn now 64 points behind May.

 

[Seagull58]

Corbyn now 64 points behind May.

Don't believe the polls. Margin of error and all that. It could be less than 60.

 

[Gwylan]

Stop the abuse of the welfare system (i.e. welfare should be seen as a benefit and not a life-style choice).

No problem with your other suggestions but wonder what you mean by this? If you mean people fraudulently obtaining benefits, this is a very low percentage (estimated at fewer than 1% of all payments). If you mean people claiming unemployment benefits, this represents just 17% of all welfare expenditure, so it won't save huge amounts of money.

And what would you do about people who live in areas of high unemployment where you get several hundred people applying for one job? In Merthyr Tydfil, where my family is from, there are 14 people chasing every job vacancy. What could these people do to get a job - that's scarcely any fault of theirs?

It's easy to look at easy targets but the unemployed shouldn't be one of them

 

[jakarta]

And what would you do about people who live in areas of high unemployment where you get several hundred people applying for one job? In Merthyr Tydfil, where my family is from, there are 14 people chasing every job vacancy. What could these people do to get a job - that's scarcely any fault of theirs?

Try moving away from Merthyr Tydfil?

 

[Gwylan]

Try moving away from Merthyr Tydfil?

How? To move somewhere with jobs (which will generally be London and the south east) could easily cost several thousand pounds (a couple of months rent, deposit, agent's fee). Sure, a young person could sofa surf for a few months while getting a deposit together but someone with a family would struggle to do that.

 

[jakarta]

How? To move somewhere with jobs (which will generally be London and the south east) could easily cost several thousand pounds (a couple of months rent, deposit, agent's fee). Sure, a young person could sofa surf for a few months while getting a deposit together but someone with a family would struggle to do that.

Did it myself several times in the 1990's, moved from Cheshire to one end of the country (Aberdeen) to the other (London).

No it wasn't easy but it wasn't impossible either, I certainly didn't sit on my arse bewailing the fact there weren't jobs on my doorstep and neither should anyone else...

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Good piece on Corbyn's appeal here:

https://middlevision.wordpress.com/2016/09/07/the-blank-canvas/

Very good. In, what, over a year as Labour leader, what actual policies has he put forward? I don't think he has ever had his rather simplistic and instinctive views challenged so isn't up to the extremely basic challenge of PMQs, where he just appears wooden and unprepared. He isn't quick enough on his feet to deal with even the clunkiest of those heavily-scripted Tory gags.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Very good. In, what, over a year as Labour leader, what actual policies has he put forward? I don't think he has ever had his rather simplistic and instinctive views challenged so isn't up to the extremely basic challenge of PMQs, where he just appears wooden and unprepared. He isn't quick enough on his feet to deal with even the clunkiest of those heavily-scripted Tory gags.

Corbyn v Smith tonight. Question Time Special.

BBC1 - 9.00pm

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Corbyn v Smith tonight. Question Time Special.

BBC1 - 9.00pm

Votes already decided. It's Corbyn by a landslide.

Another Tory government on the cards.

 

[This is me]

Corbyn v Smith tonight. Question Time Special.

BBC1 - 9.00pm

Looking forward to this. Will be the best comedy on TV tonight.

 

[jakarta]

Looking forward to this. Will be the best comedy on TV tonight.

Given the usual Question Time Audience I would expect Corbyn to be given a very easy time.

What the Great British Public will do to a Corbyn Led Labour Party at Election Time is of course a different matter...

 

[wellquickwoody]

JC - Over the last 12 months we have recruited 300,000 extreme left wingers to the party.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

JC 2-0 up in the first ten minutes....

 

[Hampster Gull]

Corbyn really is dangerous....for the labour party