[Albion] The Japanese imperial flag in the away end at OT

[Blue3]

How about if a majority do not see offence, but a very small minority do?

It’s just a flag £2.99 on Amazon I can see no offence was intended but even if one person is offended then don’t wave it

 

[Blue3]

How about if a majority do not see offence, but a very small minority do?

An advocate of Jeremy Bentham I assume

 

[Blue3]

I can't stop myself from farting if I have to

But you don’t have to do into someone’s living room via a TV screen

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Are there any still alive? They would be in their mid nineties by now.

East Stand

 

[Blue3]

If that were the case, nobody would ever do anything as there will always be someone that will take offence.

Is that really true or as I suspect just something people say like “I have told you a thousand times”

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

Is that really true or as I suspect just something people say like “I have told you a thousand times”

If I've told you once I've told you a million times...................................don't exaggerate!

 

[Chicken Run]

It’s just a flag £2.99 on Amazon I can see no offence was intended but even if one person is offended then don’t wave it

I find your avitar offensive, please remove it

 

[Blue3]

I find your avitar offensive, please remove it

Done surely the EU flag cannot offend anyone on here

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

As for the topic in question, the flag is a legitimate current flag and I don't have a problem with people waving it. If it wasn't a current flag and only represented the Japanese during WW2 then i would support calls for it not to be shown. If we had a Korean player and someone waved their flag and a bunch of North Koreans were offended would that persuade people to stop waving it?

As Simster stated, no offence was intended and in this case none should be taken.

I don't think that's an exact analogy. Your analogy would work if the flag waved at the united game was the Japan national flag(i.e the white background with a red disc in the middle). The imperial flag is not the national flag of Japan. It's used by the military and is associated (by many non Japanese Asians) with the Japanese imperialism and militarism of the first half of the 20th century and the atrocities committed in the name thereof.

I know it was used to show support for Mitoma, not to glorify Japan's militaristic past or to taunt South Koreans/Chinese, but it is controversial enough that it seems the respectable thing to not use/wave it, especially when there is a perfectly good, non controversial official flag of Japan that can be used in its stead.

If someone knows or is made aware of a little of its history and controversy surrounding it, it seems willfully offensive to then continue or advocate its continued use.

I agree fully that no offense was intended and none should be taken but I think Koreans and Chinese are perfectly within their rights to politely(although if it is all on twitter then maybe there isn't a lot of politeness being shown) point out its history and ask/suggest that it not be used.

 

[Sepulveda]

I don't think that's an exact analogy. Your analogy would work if the flag waved at the united game was the Japan national flag(i.e the white background with a red disc in the middle). The imperial flag is not the national flag of Japan. It's used by the military and is associated (by many non Japanese Asians) with the Japanese imperialism and militarism of the first half of the 20th century and the atrocities committed in the name thereof.

I know it was used to show support for Mitoma, not to glorify Japan's militaristic past or to taunt South Koreans/Chinese, but it is controversial enough that it seems the respectable thing to not use/wave it, especially when there is a perfectly good, non controversial official flag of Japan that can be used in its stead.

If someone knows or is made aware of a little of its history and controversy surrounding it, it seems willfully offensive to then continue or advocate its continued use.

I agree fully that no offense was intended and none should be taken but I think Koreans and Chinese are perfectly within their rights to politely(although if it is all on twitter then maybe there isn't a lot of politeness being shown) point out its history and ask/suggest that it not be used.

Except that the Imperial flag actually is the national flag of Japan. The "radiant sun" flag is simply the Army and Navy flag, both today and in WW2.

I completely agree that it shouldn't be displayed at matches because it's a military flag and not a national flag - but the national flag of the empire was the same one that is still used today.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I've just ordered an Iron cross in support of Pascal

 

[Sussax]

It’s just a flag £2.99 on Amazon I can see no offence was intended but even if one person is offended then don’t wave it

What if someone is offended by a Brighton flag? Should we then not wave those at Albion games?

Where does it all end?

 

[Sepulveda]

I've just ordered an Iron cross in support of Pascal

Be sure to wave it for the cameras at the end of next match!

 

[Bakero]

What if someone is offended by a Brighton flag? Should we then not wave those at Albion games?

Where does it all end?

Brighton never invaded Nanking.

 

[portlock seagull]

Koreans, who were under imperial rule. Who were forced, under the pretenses that they would be killed had they not. These men were conscripted, very few willfully joined to fight for the Japanese, and those who did were sons of poor farmer families who sometimes had no other options. you are spouting complete waffle, and ignoring the historical context

No, you are choosing (because of your ignorance) to ignore facts. Koreans often dealt out the most sadistic force, not under any pressure, but the sheer pleasure of.

The most annoying, if not dangerous, thing about revisionist history is the sheer number of naive fools like you who didn’t live through nor knew anyone from that time who lap up all sorts of nonsense on the net to fit your narrative.

And yet like a teenager, you know it all, so I guess I best take advantage of whilst it still lasts!

0/10 - go and finish your homework.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Except that the Imperial flag actually is the national flag of Japan. The "radiant sun" flag is simply the Army and Navy flag, both today and in WW2.

I completely agree that it shouldn't be displayed at matches because it's a military flag and not a national flag - but the national flag of the empire was the same one that is still used today.

Sorry, I'm not 100% following what you're saying. Are you saying the hinomaru - the red disc on the white background - is actually called the imperial flag and the one with the rays of the sun isn't called the imperial flag?

If so, I didn't know that.

Whatever it's called the flag with the sun rays isn't the national flag, it's a military one and is closely associated with Japan's former militarism and imperialism and, like you say, shouldn't be (knowingly)used at the football.

 

[Klaas]

No, you are choosing (because of your ignorance) to ignore facts. Koreans often dealt out the most sadistic force, not under any pressure, but the sheer pleasure of.

The most annoying, if not dangerous, thing about revisionist history is the sheer number of naive fools like you who didn’t live through nor knew anyone from that time who lap up all sorts of nonsense on the net to fit your narrative.

And yet like a teenager, you know it all, so I guess I best take advantage of whilst it still lasts!

0/10 - go and finish your homework.

There's only one person who sounds like a teenager here, and it ain't the person you are talking to.
Are you drunk?
Why don't you bless us with a bit of your deep knowledge, because it looks a lot to me like you know f all. Have to say it's perhaps the first time (other than by Japanese ultra nationalists) I've seen the Koreans accused of historical revisionism.

 

[portlock seagull]

Wow, up your own arse much?? Did you miss the bit where he mentioned his actual family and that he's talking about his own country? And then you come out with 'Get educated millenial'??
Earlier in the thread you stated 'Koreans committed many of the Japanese crimes in ww2.' which, even with my basic knowledge on the subject, is completely ridiculous.

Be interested to hear your stories from all these atrocity committing Korean veterans of the Japanese army?

How many books on the war in the far east have you read? How many docs seen? How many vets did you spend time with? Do you have any history academia qualifications to speak of? How many of the camps and prisons have you visited? f*** all, that’s how many. So, basically, f*** off. Because you’re an absolute cretin to be arguing Koreans didn’t assist, commit and/or perpetuate many of the crimes committed by the Japanese Imperial army. Your lack of knowledge is there for everyone to read. Your main beef, like millennial Sam, is you’re probably one too and can’t stand being served your arse on a plate and being in the wrong. I will go on insulting you though because of that, and because you’re an idiot and willing to die on idiot’s hill.

As for stories, what do you want? Detailed transcripts? Drawings? Photos? Imperial War Museum archive accounts? Or maybe, just maybe, you could be bothered to do your own research and pop down to a book shop or two as a starter?

But then, because you know it all too, there’s probably no point.

 

[portlock seagull]

There's only one person who sounds like a teenager here, and it ain't the person you are talking to.
Are you drunk?
Why don't you bless us with a bit of your deep knowledge, because it looks a lot to me like you know f all. Have to say it's perhaps the first time (other than by Japanese ultra nationalists) I've seen the Koreans accused of historical revisionism.

well, that’s a bit like me asking if you’re a kanute? “The Koreans” isn’t a single entity you know. FFS, you are as stupid on everything as well as ww2 history? As for “the first time you’ve heard”, are you so arrogant as to believe what you don’t know yet isn’t therefore true? What a kanute…Your total lack of knowledge on the subject comparatively is telling. And just because of that, you really ought to pipe down, and do some further study or have listened to the vets before they all died.

 

[Bakero]

How many books on the war in the far east have you read? How many docs seen? How many vets did you spend time with? Do you have any history academia qualifications to speak of? How many of the camps and prisons have you visited? f*** all, that’s how many. So, basically, f*** off. Because you’re an absolute cretin to be arguing Koreans didn’t assist, commit and/or perpetuate many of the crimes committed by the Japanese Imperial army. Your lack of knowledge is there for everyone to read. Your main beef, like millennial Sam, is you’re probably one too and can’t stand being served your arse on a plate and being in the wrong. I will go on insulting you though because of that, and because you’re an idiot and willing to die on idiot’s hill.

As for stories, what do you want? Detailed transcripts? Drawings? Photos? Imperial War Museum archive accounts? Or maybe, just maybe, you could be bothered to do your own research and pop down to a book shop or two as a starter?

But then, because you know it all too, there’s probably no point.

Obviously, you're quite passionate about this but it might be better to calm down a bit.

Yes, Koreans did have a reputation for being particularly brutal prison guards during the war and a fair number were convicted of war crimes. It's still a bit hyperbolic to claim they committed "many of the Japanese crimes", isn't it?

Anyway, the fact that there were some keen collaborators doesn't negate the fact that in the years before and during WW2 the Korean language was banned and their peoples massacred and enslaved. Koreans understandably hold some resentment to the Japanese for that and towards the flag.

So you can ask "what about the colloborators?!" or we could just say it'd be better if people didn't wave that particular flag in future.