The ISIS Crisis: About Time Too Dave

[Kevlar]

it is worth bearing in mind the evolution of nationhood in Europe
a hundred year between France and England for example did not
end French English rivalry as soon after they were fighting on america in soil
it is basically a millennia of struggle for borders and power culminating
in two world wars .
From the time of Henry the v111 in England and the Protestant reformation
on the continent much of the European power struggles were complicated
by a violent Christian schism between Catholics and Protestants.
Colonialism took these struggles worldwide including the Muslim Middle East and north
Africa where colonialists drew the boundaries to exploit there empires.

There should be no surprise as these empires receded that this area should begin
a similar period of power struggle for statehood fueled by inter Muslim rivalry.
If European history is anything to go by there are centuries of fighting left to establish
national borders in that area with all kind of tyrannys to evolve ( it was not that long ago that most
of Europe were ruled by hitler and Stalin.)

 

[Dorset Seagull]

it is worth bearing in mind the evolution of nationhood in Europe
a hundred year between France and England for example did not
end French English rivalry as soon after they were fighting on america in soil
it is basically a millennia of struggle for borders and power culminating
in two world wars .
From the time of Henry the v111 in England and the Protestant reformation
on the continent much of the European power struggles were complicated
by a violent Christian schism between Catholics and Protestants.
Colonialism took these struggles worldwide including the Muslim Middle East and north
Africa where colonialists drew the boundaries to exploit there empires.

There should be no surprise as these empires receded that this area should begin
a similar period of power struggle for statehood fueled by inter Muslim rivalry.
If European history is anything to go by there are centuries of fighting left to establish
national borders in that area with all kind of tyrannys to evolve ( it was not that long ago that most
of Europe were ruled by hitler and Stalin.)

I am no historian and my grasp of the subject is sketchy to say the least. Surely past struggles were held back by lack of communication, sophisticated weaponry etc. In the modern age I suspect the time frames can be reduced by a massive amount compared to then

 

[Soulman]

it is worth bearing in mind the evolution of nationhood in Europe
a hundred year between France and England for example did not
end French English rivalry as soon after they were fighting on america in soil
it is basically a millennia of struggle for borders and power culminating
in two world wars .
From the time of Henry the v111 in England and the Protestant reformation
on the continent much of the European power struggles were complicated
by a violent Christian schism between Catholics and Protestants.
Colonialism took these struggles worldwide including the Muslim Middle East and north
Africa where colonialists drew the boundaries to exploit there empires.

There should be no surprise as these empires receded that this area should begin
a similar period of power struggle for statehood fueled by inter Muslim rivalry.
If European history is anything to go by there are centuries of fighting left to establish
national borders in that area with all kind of tyrannys to evolve ( it was not that long ago that most
of Europe were ruled by hitler and Stalin.)

Nice history lesson. Why do people always deflect and bang on about situations from the past. The slaughtering of the Christians NOW in many countries is paramount.

 

[dingodan]

Talking a lot of sense imo:

 

[daveinprague]

ah, its important now because of the 'slaughtering' of Christians.... the 'slaughtering' of Shia civilians for the last two years means nothing.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Nice history lesson. Why do people always deflect and bang on about situations from the past. The slaughtering of the Christians NOW in many countries is paramount.

I think we are on the same pages over all these issues.

 

[Soulman]

I think we are on the same pages over all these issues.

I think we are. This topic very nearly fell off the first page, in fact I think it did. Looking at the posts and amounts seems the Israel crisis is top of most posters list, backed up by the flag waving demos and lack of them on this topic. I happen to feel that the backlash in northern Iraq, Nigeria etc, could have a massive affect rather than a war that has been on going and will continue flaring up

 

[daveinprague]

You think there will be any Christians in Northern Iraq, that has become an Islamic Caliphate?
Christians have been killed, but compared to the amount of Shia that has been killed by these lunatics, its barely a scratch.

 

[Soulman]

I think we are on the same pages over all these issues.

The images of the Christian s body's, well what's left of them after the head and limbs have been chopped off, is not what you can really post here eh.

 

[daveinprague]

Is a chopped up Christians body any more horrific than a Shia Muslims or Yazidhis chopped up body?

 

[Soulman]

Let's face it the Muslims are and have been using this barbaric practice on their own ideology for years. Nigeria, Yemen,Somalia, Libya, Syria etc, all over 90percent Muslim "faith", and still they slaughter each other. Happens all the time doesn't it, the religion of peace yeah. This time the Christians are being slaughtered by the war mongers.

 

[daveinprague]

and catholics have slaughtered protestants, and vice versa...but its just those muslims who are really bad haha
If the west had not BOMBED and OCCUPIED Iraq...you know...WAR MONGERING...maybe the scenario in the region would be different.

 

[Soulman]

So what is the excuse for countries the West have not bombed, where the religion of pieces, mainly body parts are slaughtering their own. Even in countries bombed by the West they are slaughtering their own. They need to get out of the 7th century.

 

[daveinprague]

In most cases Soulman, as you well know, these are mainly in civil war scenarios....although, I realise you would prefer to keep your anti muslim agenda rolling.

..and how the **** you could accuse anybody of war mongering after the shit we have pulled in the last couple of decades is laughable.
We in the west have done more to radicalise militant muslims than any other thing.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Let's face it the Muslims are and have been using this barbaric practice on their own ideology for years. Nigeria, Yemen,Somalia, Libya, Syria etc, all over 90percent Muslim "faith", and still they slaughter each other. Happens all the time doesn't it, the religion of peace yeah. This time the Christians are being slaughtered by the war mongers.

Look at migration patterns over the last 10 years, and the decrease of births from Europeans, who knows what might happen in the future. Going on the current problems it doesn't look very good does it, is it any wonder people are wary. And even if what is going over there amounts to a very small minority of people thinking the same here, there are enough moderate thinkers who are slowly making changes behind the scenes anyway. Whether that is trying to introduce religious laws, changing the education of children, opening of banks and many other examples, in the end it points to a big change going on. In the end it becomes normalised so nobody really knows what extreme means anymore.

 

[daveinprague]

Yeah that 5% of muslims in the UK will change our constitution, religion, and god forbid...open banks that dont charge interest.

 

[pastafarian]

and catholics have slaughtered protestants, and vice versa...but its just those muslims who are really bad haha
If the west had not BOMBED and OCCUPIED Iraq...you know...WAR MONGERING...maybe the scenario in the region would be different.

Maybe it would or maybe not, no one can possibly know for certain what scenario would have played out IF something had or had not occurred.

your preoccupation with the past might satisfy your personal ego,but that is about all.

The Arab Spring which caught everyone by surprise did as much as anything to mobilise disenfranchised groups into thinking they can have a piece of the cake whether through fair means or foul.

 

[Soulman]

Look at migration patterns over the last 10 years, and the decrease of births from Europeans, who knows what might happen in the future. Going on the current problems it doesn't look very good does it, is it any wonder people are wary. And even if what is going over there amounts to a very small minority of people thinking the same here, there are enough moderate thinkers who are slowly making changes behind the scenes anyway. Whether that is trying to introduce religious laws, changing the education of children, opening of banks and many other examples, in the end it points to a big change going on. In the end it becomes normalised so nobody really knows what extreme means anymore.

Yep just chip chip chip away. Best if we just let the Christians that are being persecuted in from Nigeria and Northern Iraq, that way they might educate a few here what they might come to expect. Another advantage is they would not be radicalised like many of the muppets that are born and bred here. How about an exchange package, like they do with students.

 

[daveinprague]

Yeah, thanks for you input pasta...maybe....thats why I used the word 'maybe'

 

[pastafarian]

bit of a pointless post then wasnt it

we can all do "maybe"