[Albion] The injustice against Liverpool

[Guinness Boy]

We are talking about whether a club has a right to complain and ask questions.

It does.

Yep. I mean, complaining and asking questions would certainly be a first for Klipperty. About time he gave it a try.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I disagree that our experiences at Spurs were 'nothing like as bad'. This Liverpool one CAN ultimately be put down to a terrible failing in communications - something that a tightening of their procedures / script ought to prevent from happening again (and I have no issue with them asking for the audio to be released).

Our experience on the other hand, as I described in an earlier reply to you - with the two subjective handball calls - was definitely more difficult to accept than a simple bad mistake. The VAR that day actively chose how and when they applied their supposed procedures - one in complete contrast to the other -and both to the detriment to the same side.

Understood, though unfortunately handball offences are one huge mess with some blatant ones ignored while other contentious ones (eg Dunk against Luton, and Luton v Wolves) are given. The problem there is confusion about the law and how it’s applied. And even if the law is fully understood, there’s a big margin allowed for discretion with the VAR and ref having to consider how far the ball travelled, and the speed, before hitting the hand, and whether the arm was in an unnatural position etc. Same grey areas apply to fouls in the box eg Pedro against AEK.

As you say, the Liverpool goal was different — very clearly onside and the VAR actually overruled the ref and gave the goal as it was a clear and obvious error — followed by a massive failure in procedure and best practice.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Understood, though unfortunately handball offences are one huge mess with some blatant ones ignored while other contentious ones (eg Dunk against Luton, and Luton v Wolves) are given. The problem there is confusion about the law and how it’s applied. And even if the law is fully understood, there’s a big margin allowed for discretion with the VAR and ref having to consider how far the ball travelled, and the speed, before hitting the hand, and whether the arm was in an unnatural position etc. Same grey areas apply to fouls in the box eg Pedro against AEK.

As you say, the Liverpool goal was different — very clearly onside and the VAR actually overruled the ref and gave the goal as it was a clear and obvious error — followed by a massive failure in procedure and best practice.

Summed up perfectly

 

[Colonel Mustard]

…
We're talking about one of the most entitled clubs in the country not getting a refereeing decision for once - something that happened to us in more than one game last season. We're not talking about an entire section of the global population being singled out due to their skin colour.

Oh here we go, the Liverpool sensor must have beeped again.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Oh here we go, the Liverpool sensor must have beeped again.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why do people keep pretending they don't celebrate a goal any more? It's just bizarre. Stadia aren't full of silent fans after every goal. The fans leap up and down cheering like they always have until/unless they spot a lino's raised flag like has happened for over 100 years or the modern version of a VAR review under way, which is obviously slower, but effectively the same thing.

precisely.

 

[1066familyman]

when was the last time you truly celebrated a goal without at least a nagging doubt in your mind that it might be chalked off seconds/minutes later?

That in a nutshell is why I'd be glad to see the back of VAR, although sadly it's now clearly here to stay.

If we're going to have swings and roundabouts on decisions even with VAR, which we are because it's still prone to human error, then I'd rather just have our game back instead.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

As you say, the Liverpool goal was different — very clearly onside and the VAR actually overruled the ref and gave the goal as it was a clear and obvious error — followed by a massive failure in procedure and best practice.

Like ours at Palace then.

Looked obvious that it was onside but given off

 

[Javeaseagull]

I wonder if we could adopt the cricket system of appeals against decisions. At the moment every decision be it offside a goal etc is reviewed. If we only reviewed decisions when a team appeals it would limit the number of reviews and speed the game up. What about 3 appeals per side per game. There are actually very few decisions that are controversial thank goodness.Got to be worth thinking about although the FA are notorious for not taking advice from other sports, the dinosaurs.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I wonder if we could adopt the cricket system of appeals against decisions. At the moment every decision be it offside a goal etc is reviewed. If we only reviewed decisions when a team appeals it would limit the number of reviews and speed the game up. What about 3 appeals per side per game. There are actually very few decisions that are controversial thank goodness.Got to be worth thinking about although the FA are notorious for not taking advice from other sports, the dinosaurs.

The only issue with that are the decisions made in cricket are not subjective as such. You could argue LBW is but with everyone accepting ball tracking this takes the subjective part away from the decision. About the only occasion a subjective decision is given by the TV umpire is a catch close to the ground, even then it's the onfield umpire who usually refers it.

Umpire call on LBW will be the same for Ref's they may review it but very few will change their minds on an appeal from a team.

 

[Javeaseagull]

The only issue with that are the decisions made in cricket are not subjective as such. You could argue LBW is but with everyone accepting ball tracking this takes the subjective part away from the decision. About the only occasion a subjective decision is given by the TV umpire is a catch close to the ground, even then it's the onfield umpire who usually refers it.

Umpire call on LBW will be the same for Ref's they may review it but very few will change their minds on an appeal from a team.

My point was that not every decision needs to be reviewed as it is now. If the on field referees award a goal there should be no delay in confirming it. There would only be a delay if an appeal is made.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Thank GOD Liverpool released their statement saying it wasn't good enough.

I mean, we all thought it was a BRILLAINT piece of work from VAR before that. I hadn't heard a single pundit, journalist, manager or the PGMOL itself say it was a terrible error, but then thankfully Liverpool's lawyers rode in with their passive-aggressive statement to really help shine the light on the fact that making a mistake is a bad thing and should be addressed.

What would we have done without them.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

My point was that not every decision needs to be reviewed as it is now. If the on field referees award a goal there should be no delay in confirming it. There would only be a delay if an appeal is made.

It could work but only if the review automatically meant the on field ref was immediately sent to the screen and not wait for some numpty eating pizza in an office deciding the outcome.

 

[jamie-oh]

Thank GOD Liverpool released their statement saying it wasn't good enough.

I mean, we all thought it was a BRILLAINT piece of work from VAR before that. I hadn't heard a single pundit, journalist, manager or the PGMOL itself say it was a terrible error, but then thankfully Liverpool's lawyers rode in with their passive-aggressive statement to really help shine the light on the fact that making a mistake is a bad thing and should be addressed.

What would we have done without them.

Listen you, Liverpool are here to save everyone. They're here to rescue football via the medium of VAR and they're doing it all for everyone. They're like Captain Planet, only redder and more heroic. I for one am glad that We're Never Walking Alone and i am thinking of going to the King & Queen and buying a round for everyone in there.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

My point was that not every decision needs to be reviewed as it is now. If the on field referees award a goal there should be no delay in confirming it. There would only be a delay if an appeal is made.

I quite like this idea of being able to ask for a set number of reviews. One benefit at least is that a player diving in the area or going down too easily would be very reluctant to waste a review on something he knows is very dubious which in turn would cut down much of the theatrical protestations. Would be quite funny to see a player collapse in the area, wave his arms about in outrage but then quietly refuse to have it reviewed!

 

[Wozza]

I wonder if we could adopt the cricket system of appeals against decisions. At the moment every decision be it offside a goal etc is reviewed. If we only reviewed decisions when a team appeals it would limit the number of reviews and speed the game up. What about 3 appeals per side per game. There are actually very few decisions that are controversial thank goodness.Got to be worth thinking about although the FA are notorious for not taking advice from other sports, the dinosaurs.

I agree with the referral ideal.

But the FA don't run the Premier League!

 

[beorhthelm]

I wonder if we could adopt the cricket system of appeals against decisions. At the moment every decision be it offside a goal etc is reviewed. If we only reviewed decisions when a team appeals it would limit the number of reviews and speed the game up. What about 3 appeals per side per game. There are actually very few decisions that are controversial thank goodness.Got to be worth thinking about although the FA are notorious for not taking advice from other sports, the dinosaurs.

oh dear Ward no. the problem is poor review process and inconsistant application of the rules. we dont want to create another half dozen video reviews.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This might be the moment that provides the catalyst for that being the reality.

I don't understand the "it's shit for everyone, why bother" mentality here. Showing PGMOL to be at best feckless and at worst truly incompetent can only lead to positive reform.

I agree. Many are writing Liverpool's complaint off as scousers always moaning but then why hasn't PBOBE made more fuss?
Why didn't he put in an official complaint after our 5 (FIVE) written letters of apology last season?

Grin and bear it? That's football? Ok, then nothing changes and the incompetent officials carry on getting paid money for old rope.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I agree. Many are writing Liverpool's complaint off as scousers always moaning but then why hasn't PBOBE made more fuss?
Why didn't he put in an official complaint after our 5 (FIVE) written letters of apology last season?

Grin and bear it? That's football? Ok, then nothing changes and the incompetent officials carry on getting paid money for old rope.

Because he's a professional and there's official channels to make those kind of complaints

 

[Guinness Boy]