[News] The Historical Sex Allegations Thread

[Neville's Breakfast]

I’ve just read the BBC article on the show. The Brand ‘fans’ gave him a standing ovation.

Russell Brand: Comedian appears distracted at gig but gets ovation from fans

The comedian performed in London in his first appearance since being accused of rape and sexual assault.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[amexer]

So what happens now. ? Can it only move forward if one of the accusers makes an official complaint to the police

 

[bhafc99]

Apparently the Camden thing is written about my Miki Berenyi (Lush) in her book. Not got to it yet but it would be interesting.

I was about to post exactly the same in reply to clapham_gull above.

I have read Berenyi’s excellent book, and her takedown of the toxic Britpop lads culture era is both revealing and - deservedly - ruthless.

 

[Rookie]

Then the story never gets told, because nobody complains. It's an industry who know little or nothing about.

Let me tell you something, no-one who works in the media industry will be surprised that there is yet another expose about an individual.

Such individuals have very powerful lawyers. You clearly live in very simplistic world where someone makes a complaint and the company or further the police and the CPS decide whether to proceed.

Nothing about threats to your livelihood and career that stop you complaining in the first place.

Trust me I've been there when I've called out bad behaviour. I was actually approach by senior management concerned about the business dealings of an individual.

Next thing you know you are placed in a room with the same very individual to put up or shut up.

It's corrosive. You rarely complain as an individual. If then approached by investigative journalists who agree to hiding your identity and tell your story alongside others similar, I fully understand the compulsion to sing like a f####### canary.

It's very very brave to speak out. The world isn't perfect if you are a victim.

Lots of implication about me about my knowledge of the legal system so I’ll leave it there.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Then the story never gets told, because nobody complains. It's an industry who know little or nothing about.

Let me tell you something, no-one who works in the media industry will be surprised that there is yet another expose about an individual.

Such individuals have very powerful lawyers. You clearly live in very simplistic world where someone makes a complaint and the company or further the police and the CPS decide whether to proceed.

Nothing about threats to your livelihood and career that stop you complaining in the first place.

Trust me I've been there when I've called out bad behaviour. I was actually approach by senior management concerned about the business dealings of an individual.

Next thing you know you are placed in a room with the same very individual to put up or shut up.

It's corrosive. You rarely complain as an individual. If then approached by investigative journalists who agree to hiding your identity and tell your story alongside others similar, I fully understand the compulsion to sing like a f####### canary.

It's very very brave to speak out. The world isn't perfect if you are a victim.

A very good summary. And the wealthy/famous and/or powerful have their fanbase who will defend them to the hilt, which makes it even more difficult to speak out. That can be celebrities or people in senior managerial positions who have the power over careers. It is not confined to one sector or industry. Just recently we have had the head of Spanish football, Brand and senior NHS consultants in operating theatres all called out by people previously too scared to say anything.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I was about to post exactly the same in reply to clapham_gull above.

I have read Berenyi’s excellent book, and her takedown of the toxic Britpop lads culture era is both revealing and - deservedly - ruthless.

Not read the book, but hopefully Loaded magazine gets both barrels. Beggars belief now, but that grim Lads Mag at its peak sold over 400 thousand copies a month

 

[portlock seagull]

Some of the handwringing is interesting when millions lapped up his humour, men and women. The general public are complicit in allowing and encouraging such behaviour to feed celebrity narcissism.

 

[Motogull]

So far we've got rumours of accusations of accusations about DW, RB and DJ

Who are DW and DJ?

 

[T.G]

Some of the handwringing is interesting when millions lapped up his humour, men and women. The general public are complicit in allowing and encouraging such behaviour to feed celebrity narcissism.

So because some people thought he was funny this encouraged (allegedly) sexual predatory behaviour? Bit of a stretch!

 

[portlock seagull]

So because some people thought he was funny this encouraged (allegedly) sexual predatory behaviour? Bit of a stretch!

You don’t understand. Millions paid to see him, millions bought his book, millions watched and listened to the programmes. That builds his power base. Gives him a platform. His behaviour is very much part of the show.

 

[nickjhs]

Well, actually four separate allegations have been made over a number of years by four different women - well, actually three women and one girl - who have no connection to one another. This was all detailed in the program and article.

So there is no need for an actual proper investigation or to have the accusations actually challenged and tested in court. He must be guilty how else could there possibly be these allegations if he was innocent. What next, we change the basis of our legal system to guilty until proven innocent, oh wait, that's actually what you are doing.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So there is no need for an actual proper investigation or to have the accusations actually challenged and tested in court. He must be guilty how else could there possibly be these allegations if he was innocent. What next, we change the basis of our legal system to guilty until proven innocent, oh wait, that's actually what you are doing.

Not one person has said that. As has been pointed out, at the moment there has been investigative journalism that has empowered women’s to come forward with allegations. The legal system itself and on its own has deterred many women from speaking out. Now that they are doing so there is the possibility of a trial where before it didn’t happen. That’s a good thing.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Who are DW and DJ?

Two high profile celebrities who appear to have to endure an endless barrage of rumours.

 

[Weststander]

Some of the handwringing is interesting when millions lapped up his humour, men and women. The general public are complicit in allowing and encouraging such behaviour to feed celebrity narcissism.

In the doc there was footage on shows such as BB where he was pulling his trousers partly down, banging on about his privates and sex, accosting or propositioning females guests on repeat. Rattling on about his sex techniques such as spitting in female mouths.

Oh the laughs the audiences had. Edgy comedy

I always thought he was a shouty narcissistic bore. Turns out he was worse than that.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Pot, meet kettle

(The quote, specifically)

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Who are DW and DJ?

I hope the second one isn't David Jason

 

[nickjhs]

Not one person has said that. As has been pointed out, at the moment there has been investigative journalism that has empowered women’s to come forward with allegations. The legal system itself and on its own has deterred many women from speaking out. Now that they are doing so there is the possibility of a trial where before it didn’t happen. That’s a good thing.

Not in so many words, however, there have been several posts that lead to this conclusion. The whole MeToo movement is framed around guilty until proven innocent. I am not defending Brand (he has always come across as a complete twat to me) but I am defending the idea of innocent until proven otherwise, and the idea that careers should not be destroyed by unproven allegations.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Not in so many words, however, there have been several posts that lead to this conclusion. The whole MeToo movement is framed around guilty until proven innocent. I am not defending Brand (he has always come across as a complete twat to me) but I am defending the idea of innocent until proven otherwise, and the idea that careers should not be destroyed by unproven allegations.

Well, he is still innocent until proven guilty. But the guilty are often protected by a culture of fear and a system that deters victims from speaking out. Investigative journalism in some cases may be the only way of empowering people who are failed by the adversarial legal system and cosy boys clubs within organisations and companies. At the end of it the newly empowered may appear in court with the accused but on a more level power playing field.

 

[portlock seagull]

In the doc there was footage on shows such as BB where he was pulling his trousers partly down, banging on about his privates and sex, accosting or propositioning females guests on repeat. Rattling on about his sex techniques such as spitting in female mouths.

Oh the laughs the audiences had. Edgy comedy

I always thought he was a shouty narcissistic bore. Turns out he was worse than that.

Absolutely this. But each to their own, and millions - especially women - loved it and continue to, including last night, so it shouldn’t be seen as a gender battle with Brand representing men and the accusers women. It’s a lot more complicated than that. Not my type of comedy, listening to constant explicit sexual references but millions loved it. The excerpts included in last nights programme, I really don’t understand how you can call that entertainment and paid good money for. Each to their own though as said

 

[Weststander]

Absolutely this. But each to their own, and millions - especially women - loved it and continue to, including last night, so it shouldn’t be seen as a gender battle with Brand representing men and the accusers women. It’s a lot more complicated than that. Not my type of comedy, listening to constant explicit sexual references but millions loved it. The excerpts included in last nights programme, I really don’t understand how you can call that entertainment and paid good money for. Each to their own though as said

I don’t tend to get roped into gender battle debates. I’ve known two stranger rape victims, so my heart leans towards the vulnerable gender, but against that imho 90% of males in this country treat females with respect (‘have their back’).

Regarding the comedy, perhaps that era of 2000 to 2015 was the end in the UK of a passing fad? Brand able to push his sexual thoughts and actions as wit, a herd instinct from folk snapping up the tickets.