Same as the Jimmy Greaves 'problem' in 1966, except Ramsey got it right.
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[Football] The Harry Kane Problem
- Thread starter Guinness Boy
- Start date
kane has been a loyal servant and a great England player, he deserves the plaudits but agree that he was clearly out of his depth tonight. It’s a tournament that has shown him to be past his best, however, not helped by the tactical brilliance of a manager some of you defend. I’m still Southgate out.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,313
Ok, let's get one thing straight. The bloke's haul of 66 goals in the last decade has powered England to the latter stage of big tournaments, while his haul of goals in the Bundesliga shows he can still score.
He has not been fit in this tournament but has started every game, in part because he is captain. Hendo and Maguire have not been around.
For me we need to make Bellingham captain, but keep Harry as a squad player. If Poch gets the job he will get the best out of him. However, Watkins and Palmer deserve more gametime.
He has not been fit in this tournament but has started every game, in part because he is captain. Hendo and Maguire have not been around.
For me we need to make Bellingham captain, but keep Harry as a squad player. If Poch gets the job he will get the best out of him. However, Watkins and Palmer deserve more gametime.
- Thread starter
- #24
- Thread starter
- #26
If Southgate goes then Potter has to be odds on to replace him.
This is his first in tray item IMO.
Jimmy Grimble
Well-known member
If Southgate subs you before the 70th minute you must be f***ing shite. I bet Gareth was delighted that Kane got booked so he had an excuse to hook him off.
Iggle Piggle
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2010
- 6,039
If anyone still wonders why RDZ picked Jason Steele, watching Pickford tonight neatly underlines why. Lumping long balls up to Kane won't create chances for him. As much as I haven't enjoyed watching him he still managed to score 36 times in the German league last season.
Watkins must have been absolutely buzzing after his last minute goal against the Dutch, brimming with confidence and raring to go. But instead he has to sit on the bench for an hour, watching Kane lumbering around in his own half like a sack barrow.
Didn’t Ben White fall out with GS’s coaches? It wasn’t sensitivity to NSC and X opinions
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,313
Has Potter got the ability, the stature, the balls to drop Kane, Pickford, consign Walker, Maguire, Henderson to the dustbin and build a new squad with a new captain?
Southgate has raised the bar, he's got so much right that his predecessors got wrong. This is a tough job.
Not auditions for the squad Christmas panto?
White will be back when Southgate has gone.
dsr-burnley
Well-known member
- Aug 15, 2014
- 2,687
Kane can't play in a system that has one man up front, and that man having primary duties to defend. (Watkins was useless in the last 10 minutes as well, after the equaliser and England went back to 9 behind the ball. No forward would be any good in that formation.)
The same problem, yes. Both injured. And yes, Ramsey got it right.
I would certainly not bin off Kane. But he has to play behind the min striker. Watkins. And not at all if unfit. He did less than Murrayoffside tonight.
Picking him when unfit and watching the team rescue itself after he is subbed off can only happen once. It happened in the semi. No lesson learned. To do it again was dumb. When he started I assumed he had thrown off his miasma. Did he tell the boss he was 100% I wonder?
Southgate was right to persist with Shaw. He was excellent for much of the game.
And yet...he's a Man U player, and I don't think Man U player bring enough to England beyond their entitlement. Southgate recognized that with Slabbers (in the end) and Rashford. In the end bringing in Shaw to start the final game probably added to the defensive disorganization that contributed to Spain's goals.
Anyway....time for a change of supreme Dalek now I feel.
For sure he has. Look how he ruthlessly binned off our number 1 keeper. I recon he'd relish the chance to work with England's best players.
Another problem some have mentioned is Rice. He does not have the passing composure when coming out of defense of Stones or Dunk. He is quick and accurate in midfield, but not quite quick and accurate enough. He reminds me of Emlyn Hughes. People think he's brilliant but what does he actually do? He thinks he's Roy of the Rovers. A crude talent who looks great as a water carrier at Arsenal where other players are super stars. For England he thinks he can do it all himself. But he can't. And sometimes he just gets in the way, especially when coming back to fetch the ball.
Walker has been great - till now. Perhaps all his off field nonsense has caught up with him.
Seagull58
In the Algarve
Agreed. It was Guehi who lost the euros. One of the very few times he was asked to defend properly he played his man onside and then failed to block the pass. Awful defending. He can play 5 yard passes to unmarked players all day though
I think the Kane problem is in a really defensive team you need a someone to sit deep, but have the pace to run behind quickly. Kane doesn't have that pace so he just does the sitting deep bit. Southgate has to always play him, but in a system and position that he doesn't suit and that doesn't suit him.
Spain didn't have one focus in attack, their goals could have come from anywhere. Morata wasn't their main threat but he was getting in and passing it around more, so in a more attacking team he could pull enough attention away from their wingers and midfielders to let them threaten. Our wingers and mids looked good at times, but Spain could get on them more quickly and often double up with Kane so deep and ineffectual. I don't think Spain's defence was that great but it made it easier for them.
I'm not trying to make him the scapegoat, just saying why I think it isn't working.
Spain didn't have one focus in attack, their goals could have come from anywhere. Morata wasn't their main threat but he was getting in and passing it around more, so in a more attacking team he could pull enough attention away from their wingers and midfielders to let them threaten. Our wingers and mids looked good at times, but Spain could get on them more quickly and often double up with Kane so deep and ineffectual. I don't think Spain's defence was that great but it made it easier for them.
I'm not trying to make him the scapegoat, just saying why I think it isn't working.
Iggle Piggle
Well-known member
- Sep 3, 2010
- 6,039
We can blame individual players all day and night for performances that weren't up to it. Kane wandering around like a 50 year old bloke at a walking football tournament is an obvious target.
Personally think we've been tactically inept all tournament. All game Spain had enough space on the left to open up their own farm. Any half decent manager would have tweaked the formation to spot the danger but Gareth and the fat man just stand there like lemons.
Until someone organises England to play like a team rather than 11 blokes who've been told to run around a bit in attack and "Give it to Jordan to launch it" in defence it's hard to tell whose got a role to play in future.
Personally think we've been tactically inept all tournament. All game Spain had enough space on the left to open up their own farm. Any half decent manager would have tweaked the formation to spot the danger but Gareth and the fat man just stand there like lemons.
Until someone organises England to play like a team rather than 11 blokes who've been told to run around a bit in attack and "Give it to Jordan to launch it" in defence it's hard to tell whose got a role to play in future.