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The handbook issued to Americans soldiers in Britain during WW2
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pastafarian
Well-known member
Seagull on the wing
New member
Obviously Brighton did'nt get the full bombing that the docks recieved and you're right in saying it was Brighton was the dump load to lighten gt away from the fighters...they did have one purpose raid to try and take out Preston Barracks...the bomb in our road was the second to last bomb dropped...was Dudley Road,the last landed in Roedale rd and Newhaven was attacked,the launching of the Dieppe raid which the Canadians left...many not to return.
Have to disagree with you on the 'switch to London bombing'...if they had kept up the bombing of airfields and radar stations we could not have continued to put up aircraft for defence. Although it was tough on the Londoners who suffered terrible loss of life it gave the RAF time to rebuild.I agree that the German tactics were a mistake but they vastly outnumbered us...as usual when war came we were very unprepared.
As regards bombing Radar stations 3 times a day...I did say 'sometimes' as in the IOW station.
There are many books on the war and I have 4 shelves full plus about 70 odd videos and I watch many documentries on war so the take on it is from whivh point of view you think is right.I can only base it on what I learnt and having lived through the war. You do make valid points though so lets agree to differ on our views
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Seagull on the wing
New member
The German Invasion Plans.
The Army wanted to land on a 200 mile wide front stretching from Lyme Regis in the west to Ramsgate in the east, however the Navy was constantly worried about the threat from the Royal Navy insisted on a narrower landing. A compromise was arrived at where the landings would be from Brighton in the west to Folkestone in the east. The first wave of about 60,000 men was to secure the beaches while the second wave comprised of The German Invasion Plans.
The Army wanted to land on a 200 mile wide front stretching from Lyme Regis in the west to Ramsgate in the east, however the Navy was constantly worried about the threat from the Royal Navy insisted on a narrower landing. A compromise was arrived at where the landings would be from Brighton in the west to Folkestone in the east. The first wave of about 60,000 men was to secure the beaches while the second wave comprised of the tank divisions that were to break out of the beachheads and capture the secondary objectives. The landings were to be assisted by airborne troops landing on the Downs above Brighton and north-west of Folkestone to help with the capture of crossings over the Royal Military Canal.
The British Defences.
In Britain defences were hastily erected. On 14th May 1940 the Local Defence Volunteers were formed. It was made up of men too old, or too infirm to join the regular army. The LDV later became known as the Home Guard after Churchill used the phrase in a radio broadcast.
General Sir Edmund Ironside was put in charge of Britain's defence. With the lack of equipment he decided to build a static system of defences which could delay the Germans long enough for more mobile forces to counter attack. The defences were made up of concrete pillboxes , anti-tank obstacles, trenches and minefields which took advantage of natural and man made features. The main line of these defences was known as the GHQ Stop Line. In July 1940 General Ironside was replaced as commander of the Home Forces by General Alan Brooke. General Brooke changed the defence strategy away from static defence lines to mobile formations, although defence lines continued to be built.
The Germans Attack.
For the invasion to succeed the Germans had to defeat the Royal Air Force. The air offensive began on 12th August. At first the Germans concentrated on the radar stations and airfields of the RAF. Unknown to the Germans these tactics soon had the RAF almost on its knees. However, the Germans changed tactics and started bombing London and the aircraft factories, thereby allowing the RAF to regroup. Legend has it that the German decision to bomb London was caused by RAF raids on Berlin, which in turn was caused by a German bomber crew losing their way and accidentally releasing their load over London.
Codeword Cromwell - Invasion Imminent.
In the first week of September reconnaissance of the Channel ports -Ostend, Le Havre, Flushing, Ostend, Dunkirk and Calais- had shown a substantial build-up of barges. At Ostend alone 280 had arrived during the previous week. Substantial numbers of motor-boats and larger vessels had also moved down the coast to the same area. Considerable numbers of bombers had just moved to airfields in the Low Countries and dive-bombers appeared to be assembling near the Straits of Dover. The moon and tide favoured a landing between September 8th and 10th. Everything pointed to an invasion. At 5.20 p.m on 7th September the Chiefs of Staff met. At 8.07 p.m. they decided to bring Home Forces to a state of "immediate readiness" and issued the word “Cromwell” meaning invasion imminent.
8pm on a Saturday night was not a good time to raise an alarm. Most duty officers at military commands were junior officers, who in the main had not been briefed fully on procedures. Many thought the signal meant an invasion had already begun. All over the country coastal artillery sites were manned, thousands of units put on steel helmets and waited for first sight of the enemy. Home Guard units were mobilised and manned their pillboxes and their improvised defences. The Beetle invasion warning network, just completed days earlier on August 26th, crackled into life and Operation Banquet was initiated whereby all flyable training aircraft that weren’t fighters were converted into bombers. Police rounded up trainee pilots, some barely able to fly, from pubs, dance halls and cinemas and as they reported back to their airfields they were shocked to see bombs being loaded onto their flimsy training aircraft. More than half of Bomber Command's medium bombers stood by to support Home Forces. Some Home Guard Captains sounded church bells, which they were only supposed to do on their own initiative if they actually saw more than 25 of the enemy, and other units, both Home Guard and the regular Army, thought the bells were confirmation of enemy troops in the area. Several East Anglian bridges were blown up by the Royal Engineers and there were more serious consequences when three Guards officers were killed in Lincolnshire when their vehicle went over a newly laid mine as they rushed back to their unit. As daylight dawned on the 8th it was clear that Sealion had not been launched and gradually senior officers managed to restore sanity to the situation
Indecision and Postponement.
With the failure of the German Air Force to defeat the Royal Air Force the German High Command became increasingly nervous about the chances of a successful invasion. Initally it was intended to invade in August but on 3rd September the High Command postponed Sealion to the 21st and then the 27th which would be the last time that year the tides would be suitable.
On 15th September the German Air Force launched a major attack to destroy the RAF. The Germans lost twice as many planes as the RAF. This signalled the end for Sealion. Hitler had it postponed indefinitely, while his attention was drawn towards the Soviet Union.
Conclusions
There a two schools of thought on how successful a German Invasion would have been had the RAF been defeated.
The first is that a German invasion, even with air superiority would have probably failed. In 1974 a wargame was played at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. The wargame involved a number of senior military men from both sides including Adolf Galland the famous Luftwaffe fighter ace and Air Chief Marshal Sir Christopher Foxley-Norris. It presumed that the Luftwaffe has not yet won air supremacy and utilised previously unpublished Admiralty weather records for September 1940.
Even without air supremacy the Germans were able to establish a beachhead in England using a minefield screen in the English Channel to protect the initial landings from the Royal Navy. However, after a few days, the Royal Navy was able to cut off supplies from the German beachhead, isolating them and forcing their surrender.
The second is that , with the Luftwaffe dominating british skies, they would have been able to target oil refineries, industry and ports relatively unimpeded. Combined with a blockade by U-Boats Britain would have been starved either into surrender or a negotiated peace with Nazi Germany..
the tank divisions that were to break out of the beachheads and capture the secondary objectives. The landings were to be assisted by airborne troops landing on the Downs above Brighton and north-west of Folkestone to help with the capture of crossings over the Royal Military Canal.
The British Defences.
In Britain defences were hastily erected. On 14th May 1940 the Local Defence Volunteers were formed. It was made up of men too old, or too infirm to join the regular army. The LDV later became known as the Home Guard after Churchill used the phrase in a radio broadcast.
General Sir Edmund Ironside was put in charge of Britain's defence. With the lack of equipment he decided to build a static system of defences which could delay the Germans long enough for more mobile forces to counter attack. The defences were made up of concrete pillboxes , anti-tank obstacles, trenches and minefields which took advantage of natural and man made features. The main line of these defences was known as the GHQ Stop Line. In July 1940 General Ironside was replaced as commander of the Home Forces by General Alan Brooke. General Brooke changed the defence strategy away from static defence lines to mobile formations, although defence lines continued to be built.
The Germans Attack.
For the invasion to succeed the Germans had to defeat the Royal Air Force. The air offensive began on 12th August. At first the Germans concentrated on the radar stations and airfields of the RAF. Unknown to the Germans these tactics soon had the RAF almost on its knees. However, the Germans changed tactics and started bombing London and the aircraft factories, thereby allowing the RAF to regroup. Legend has it that the German decision to bomb London was caused by RAF raids on Berlin, which in turn was caused by a German bomber crew losing their way and accidentally releasing their load over London.
Codeword Cromwell - Invasion Imminent.
In the first week of September reconnaissance of the Channel ports -Ostend, Le Havre, Flushing, Ostend, Dunkirk and Calais- had shown a substantial build-up of barges. At Ostend alone 280 had arrived during the previous week. Substantial numbers of motor-boats and larger vessels had also moved down the coast to the same area. Considerable numbers of bombers had just moved to airfields in the Low Countries and dive-bombers appeared to be assembling near the Straits of Dover. The moon and tide favoured a landing between September 8th and 10th. Everything pointed to an invasion. At 5.20 p.m on 7th September the Chiefs of Staff met. At 8.07 p.m. they decided to bring Home Forces to a state of "immediate readiness" and issued the word “Cromwell” meaning invasion imminent.
8pm on a Saturday night was not a good time to raise an alarm. Most duty officers at military commands were junior officers, who in the main had not been briefed fully on procedures. Many thought the signal meant an invasion had already begun. All over the country coastal artillery sites were manned, thousands of units put on steel helmets and waited for first sight of the enemy. Home Guard units were mobilised and manned their pillboxes and their improvised defences. The Beetle invasion warning network, just completed days earlier on August 26th, crackled into life and Operation Banquet was initiated whereby all flyable training aircraft that weren’t fighters were converted into bombers. Police rounded up trainee pilots, some barely able to fly, from pubs, dance halls and cinemas and as they reported back to their airfields they were shocked to see bombs being loaded onto their flimsy training aircraft. More than half of Bomber Command's medium bombers stood by to support Home Forces. Some Home Guard Captains sounded church bells, which they were only supposed to do on their own initiative if they actually saw more than 25 of the enemy, and other units, both Home Guard and the regular Army, thought the bells were confirmation of enemy troops in the area. Several East Anglian bridges were blown up by the Royal Engineers and there were more serious consequences when three Guards officers were killed in Lincolnshire when their vehicle went over a newly laid mine as they rushed back to their unit. As daylight dawned on the 8th it was clear that Sealion had not been launched and gradually senior officers managed to restore sanity to the situation
Indecision and Postponement.
With the failure of the German Air Force to defeat the Royal Air Force the German High Command became increasingly nervous about the chances of a successful invasion. Initally it was intended to invade in August but on 3rd September the High Command postponed Sealion to the 21st and then the 27th which would be the last time that year the tides would be suitable.
On 15th September the German Air Force launched a major attack to destroy the RAF. The Germans lost twice as many planes as the RAF. This signalled the end for Sealion. Hitler had it postponed indefinitely, while his attention was drawn towards the Soviet Union.
Conclusions
There a two schools of thought on how successful a German Invasion would have been had the RAF been defeated.
The first is that a German invasion, even with air superiority would have probably failed. In 1974 a wargame was played at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. The wargame involved a number of senior military men from both sides including Adolf Galland the famous Luftwaffe fighter ace and Air Chief Marshal Sir Christopher Foxley-Norris. It presumed that the Luftwaffe has not yet won air supremacy and utilised previously unpublished Admiralty weather records for September 1940.
Even without air supremacy the Germans were able to establish a beachhead in England using a minefield screen in the English Channel to protect the initial landings from the Royal Navy. However, after a few days, the Royal Navy was able to cut off supplies from the German beachhead, isolating them and forcing their surrender.
The second is that , with the Luftwaffe dominating british skies, they would have been able to target oil refineries, industry and ports relatively unimpeded. Combined with a blockade by U-Boats Britain would have been starved either into surrender or a negotiated peace with Nazi Germany..
Found this on web...it does show that Brighton was important and how very close we came,we were outbumbered in the air and had they beaten the RAF then invasion would've been a realality.They might not have succeeded,who knows, but it was much closer than people think nowadays.
The Army wanted to land on a 200 mile wide front stretching from Lyme Regis in the west to Ramsgate in the east, however the Navy was constantly worried about the threat from the Royal Navy insisted on a narrower landing. A compromise was arrived at where the landings would be from Brighton in the west to Folkestone in the east. The first wave of about 60,000 men was to secure the beaches while the second wave comprised of The German Invasion Plans.
The Army wanted to land on a 200 mile wide front stretching from Lyme Regis in the west to Ramsgate in the east, however the Navy was constantly worried about the threat from the Royal Navy insisted on a narrower landing. A compromise was arrived at where the landings would be from Brighton in the west to Folkestone in the east. The first wave of about 60,000 men was to secure the beaches while the second wave comprised of the tank divisions that were to break out of the beachheads and capture the secondary objectives. The landings were to be assisted by airborne troops landing on the Downs above Brighton and north-west of Folkestone to help with the capture of crossings over the Royal Military Canal.
The British Defences.
In Britain defences were hastily erected. On 14th May 1940 the Local Defence Volunteers were formed. It was made up of men too old, or too infirm to join the regular army. The LDV later became known as the Home Guard after Churchill used the phrase in a radio broadcast.
General Sir Edmund Ironside was put in charge of Britain's defence. With the lack of equipment he decided to build a static system of defences which could delay the Germans long enough for more mobile forces to counter attack. The defences were made up of concrete pillboxes , anti-tank obstacles, trenches and minefields which took advantage of natural and man made features. The main line of these defences was known as the GHQ Stop Line. In July 1940 General Ironside was replaced as commander of the Home Forces by General Alan Brooke. General Brooke changed the defence strategy away from static defence lines to mobile formations, although defence lines continued to be built.
The Germans Attack.
For the invasion to succeed the Germans had to defeat the Royal Air Force. The air offensive began on 12th August. At first the Germans concentrated on the radar stations and airfields of the RAF. Unknown to the Germans these tactics soon had the RAF almost on its knees. However, the Germans changed tactics and started bombing London and the aircraft factories, thereby allowing the RAF to regroup. Legend has it that the German decision to bomb London was caused by RAF raids on Berlin, which in turn was caused by a German bomber crew losing their way and accidentally releasing their load over London.
Codeword Cromwell - Invasion Imminent.
In the first week of September reconnaissance of the Channel ports -Ostend, Le Havre, Flushing, Ostend, Dunkirk and Calais- had shown a substantial build-up of barges. At Ostend alone 280 had arrived during the previous week. Substantial numbers of motor-boats and larger vessels had also moved down the coast to the same area. Considerable numbers of bombers had just moved to airfields in the Low Countries and dive-bombers appeared to be assembling near the Straits of Dover. The moon and tide favoured a landing between September 8th and 10th. Everything pointed to an invasion. At 5.20 p.m on 7th September the Chiefs of Staff met. At 8.07 p.m. they decided to bring Home Forces to a state of "immediate readiness" and issued the word “Cromwell” meaning invasion imminent.
8pm on a Saturday night was not a good time to raise an alarm. Most duty officers at military commands were junior officers, who in the main had not been briefed fully on procedures. Many thought the signal meant an invasion had already begun. All over the country coastal artillery sites were manned, thousands of units put on steel helmets and waited for first sight of the enemy. Home Guard units were mobilised and manned their pillboxes and their improvised defences. The Beetle invasion warning network, just completed days earlier on August 26th, crackled into life and Operation Banquet was initiated whereby all flyable training aircraft that weren’t fighters were converted into bombers. Police rounded up trainee pilots, some barely able to fly, from pubs, dance halls and cinemas and as they reported back to their airfields they were shocked to see bombs being loaded onto their flimsy training aircraft. More than half of Bomber Command's medium bombers stood by to support Home Forces. Some Home Guard Captains sounded church bells, which they were only supposed to do on their own initiative if they actually saw more than 25 of the enemy, and other units, both Home Guard and the regular Army, thought the bells were confirmation of enemy troops in the area. Several East Anglian bridges were blown up by the Royal Engineers and there were more serious consequences when three Guards officers were killed in Lincolnshire when their vehicle went over a newly laid mine as they rushed back to their unit. As daylight dawned on the 8th it was clear that Sealion had not been launched and gradually senior officers managed to restore sanity to the situation
Indecision and Postponement.
With the failure of the German Air Force to defeat the Royal Air Force the German High Command became increasingly nervous about the chances of a successful invasion. Initally it was intended to invade in August but on 3rd September the High Command postponed Sealion to the 21st and then the 27th which would be the last time that year the tides would be suitable.
On 15th September the German Air Force launched a major attack to destroy the RAF. The Germans lost twice as many planes as the RAF. This signalled the end for Sealion. Hitler had it postponed indefinitely, while his attention was drawn towards the Soviet Union.
Conclusions
There a two schools of thought on how successful a German Invasion would have been had the RAF been defeated.
The first is that a German invasion, even with air superiority would have probably failed. In 1974 a wargame was played at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. The wargame involved a number of senior military men from both sides including Adolf Galland the famous Luftwaffe fighter ace and Air Chief Marshal Sir Christopher Foxley-Norris. It presumed that the Luftwaffe has not yet won air supremacy and utilised previously unpublished Admiralty weather records for September 1940.
Even without air supremacy the Germans were able to establish a beachhead in England using a minefield screen in the English Channel to protect the initial landings from the Royal Navy. However, after a few days, the Royal Navy was able to cut off supplies from the German beachhead, isolating them and forcing their surrender.
The second is that , with the Luftwaffe dominating british skies, they would have been able to target oil refineries, industry and ports relatively unimpeded. Combined with a blockade by U-Boats Britain would have been starved either into surrender or a negotiated peace with Nazi Germany..
the tank divisions that were to break out of the beachheads and capture the secondary objectives. The landings were to be assisted by airborne troops landing on the Downs above Brighton and north-west of Folkestone to help with the capture of crossings over the Royal Military Canal.
The British Defences.
In Britain defences were hastily erected. On 14th May 1940 the Local Defence Volunteers were formed. It was made up of men too old, or too infirm to join the regular army. The LDV later became known as the Home Guard after Churchill used the phrase in a radio broadcast.
General Sir Edmund Ironside was put in charge of Britain's defence. With the lack of equipment he decided to build a static system of defences which could delay the Germans long enough for more mobile forces to counter attack. The defences were made up of concrete pillboxes , anti-tank obstacles, trenches and minefields which took advantage of natural and man made features. The main line of these defences was known as the GHQ Stop Line. In July 1940 General Ironside was replaced as commander of the Home Forces by General Alan Brooke. General Brooke changed the defence strategy away from static defence lines to mobile formations, although defence lines continued to be built.
The Germans Attack.
For the invasion to succeed the Germans had to defeat the Royal Air Force. The air offensive began on 12th August. At first the Germans concentrated on the radar stations and airfields of the RAF. Unknown to the Germans these tactics soon had the RAF almost on its knees. However, the Germans changed tactics and started bombing London and the aircraft factories, thereby allowing the RAF to regroup. Legend has it that the German decision to bomb London was caused by RAF raids on Berlin, which in turn was caused by a German bomber crew losing their way and accidentally releasing their load over London.
Codeword Cromwell - Invasion Imminent.
In the first week of September reconnaissance of the Channel ports -Ostend, Le Havre, Flushing, Ostend, Dunkirk and Calais- had shown a substantial build-up of barges. At Ostend alone 280 had arrived during the previous week. Substantial numbers of motor-boats and larger vessels had also moved down the coast to the same area. Considerable numbers of bombers had just moved to airfields in the Low Countries and dive-bombers appeared to be assembling near the Straits of Dover. The moon and tide favoured a landing between September 8th and 10th. Everything pointed to an invasion. At 5.20 p.m on 7th September the Chiefs of Staff met. At 8.07 p.m. they decided to bring Home Forces to a state of "immediate readiness" and issued the word “Cromwell” meaning invasion imminent.
8pm on a Saturday night was not a good time to raise an alarm. Most duty officers at military commands were junior officers, who in the main had not been briefed fully on procedures. Many thought the signal meant an invasion had already begun. All over the country coastal artillery sites were manned, thousands of units put on steel helmets and waited for first sight of the enemy. Home Guard units were mobilised and manned their pillboxes and their improvised defences. The Beetle invasion warning network, just completed days earlier on August 26th, crackled into life and Operation Banquet was initiated whereby all flyable training aircraft that weren’t fighters were converted into bombers. Police rounded up trainee pilots, some barely able to fly, from pubs, dance halls and cinemas and as they reported back to their airfields they were shocked to see bombs being loaded onto their flimsy training aircraft. More than half of Bomber Command's medium bombers stood by to support Home Forces. Some Home Guard Captains sounded church bells, which they were only supposed to do on their own initiative if they actually saw more than 25 of the enemy, and other units, both Home Guard and the regular Army, thought the bells were confirmation of enemy troops in the area. Several East Anglian bridges were blown up by the Royal Engineers and there were more serious consequences when three Guards officers were killed in Lincolnshire when their vehicle went over a newly laid mine as they rushed back to their unit. As daylight dawned on the 8th it was clear that Sealion had not been launched and gradually senior officers managed to restore sanity to the situation
Indecision and Postponement.
With the failure of the German Air Force to defeat the Royal Air Force the German High Command became increasingly nervous about the chances of a successful invasion. Initally it was intended to invade in August but on 3rd September the High Command postponed Sealion to the 21st and then the 27th which would be the last time that year the tides would be suitable.
On 15th September the German Air Force launched a major attack to destroy the RAF. The Germans lost twice as many planes as the RAF. This signalled the end for Sealion. Hitler had it postponed indefinitely, while his attention was drawn towards the Soviet Union.
Conclusions
There a two schools of thought on how successful a German Invasion would have been had the RAF been defeated.
The first is that a German invasion, even with air superiority would have probably failed. In 1974 a wargame was played at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. The wargame involved a number of senior military men from both sides including Adolf Galland the famous Luftwaffe fighter ace and Air Chief Marshal Sir Christopher Foxley-Norris. It presumed that the Luftwaffe has not yet won air supremacy and utilised previously unpublished Admiralty weather records for September 1940.
Even without air supremacy the Germans were able to establish a beachhead in England using a minefield screen in the English Channel to protect the initial landings from the Royal Navy. However, after a few days, the Royal Navy was able to cut off supplies from the German beachhead, isolating them and forcing their surrender.
The second is that , with the Luftwaffe dominating british skies, they would have been able to target oil refineries, industry and ports relatively unimpeded. Combined with a blockade by U-Boats Britain would have been starved either into surrender or a negotiated peace with Nazi Germany..
Found this on web...it does show that Brighton was important and how very close we came,we were outbumbered in the air and had they beaten the RAF then invasion would've been a realality.They might not have succeeded,who knows, but it was much closer than people think nowadays.
HastingsSeagull
Well-known member
Good OP, thanks for sharing
The Birdman
New member
Great thread I think this could be a long running one with lots of intresting stories . I have read some intresting books on Brighton during the war. The first doodle bug V1 were did it land in Brighton/Hove?
Seagull on the wing
New member
Not quite sure where it actually landed but the Air Raid Warden said "As long as you can hear it you're safe"...when the engine cuts out...get under cover PDQ.
wardy wonder land
Active member
- Dec 10, 2007
- 791
there used to be a pilbox visable at the bottom of handcross hill - is it still there with the roadworks going on ?
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
Where the bombs fell on Brighton and Hove.
I think the VI might have ended up on East Brighton Golf course.
Rumour has it that some of the bunkers at Hollingbury Golf course are bomb craters.
There was a large crater in the grounds of the Royal Pavillion which was turned into a resevoir for the duration.
There was also a few crashes in B&H of aircraft, axis and allied, I recall that two Beaufighters crashed into each other and fell onto the bottom of Roedale Road leaving bits of aircrew all over the place. That was kept hush hush at the time as the planes were still classified.
There was a Messerschmidt 109 brought down at Shoreham airport and was so intact that it was reflown by the RAF. There is also a bizarre case where a JU87 Stuka was landed in good flying order next to Pease Pottage although the pilot and rear gunner were dead in their seats.
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Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Portsmouth was flattened in the air raids. I can remember seeing bomb ruins in the 50s that still hadn't been cleared as I lived there for 18 months before returning to Brighton. There were very stern warnings at school not to go near them as there were still unexploded bombs and the ruins were very unsafe.
Roedean was taken over by the Navy as a lookout station pending any invasion.
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
It was not part of the stop line but there are still a fair few pillboxes around Sussex. They are often seen at crossroads and on the ends of bridges. The A23 was a major arterial route fro the coast to London so there'd be a few around I expect.
The Stop line in Essex is still impressive with some really meaty artillery bunkers and machine gun pillboxes sitting quietly in the fields.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Not to mention Dennis Nobel who got shot down in his Hurricane by a 109 close to what is now The Nobel House pub (formerly the Jamica Inn on Portland Road). http://www.noblehousehove.com/dennis-noble/
This is simply not true. This is the old school of thought, where the RAF over-estimated the strength of the Luftwaffe, and the Luftwaffe underestimated the strength of the RAF. Even if Germany had been more successful in disabling British airfields, the RAF could have simply moved further north, out of the range of German fighters. And it's very easy to fix a field with bomb craters.
Also note that we didn't just have radar, we had a network of civilian spotters throughout England, all equipped with a telephone line - the world's first intranet, and virtually indestructible.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
As I stated above, the Navy took over Roedean although obviously it wasn't civilian.
Leighgull
New member
- Dec 27, 2012
- 2,377
If you look on Bevendeans Bomb map you will see that the area round the station was a clear target and was badly damaged by bombing. There was also a notable attack on Preston with incendiaries.
German raiders actually made several deliberate attacks on Brighton whether by strafing or bombing. In fact the idea of Luftwaffe jettisoning bombs over Brighton as they evaded British fighters is not supported by the evidence.
The Odeon in Kemptown (opposite the county hospital ) was hit in a daytime raid whilst school kids watched the Saturday matinee. I think this stands as the highest casualty figure for the raids on Brighton.
Theatre of Trees
Well-known member
The stop line can still be traced in Sussex, it began at Newhaven followed the River Ouse to Isfield then the River Uck to Buxted before following the railway to Groombridge, then followed the course of the Medway to the Thames estuary. The area around Barcombe Mills still retains a large number of pillboxes as does Old Lodge Warren near Crowborough.
Theatre of Trees
Well-known member
Something not mentioned here but towards the end of May 1940, during the events at Dunkirk, there was a large battle within the British cabinet itself between a group of politicians led by Lord Halifax who wished to sue for peace and Churchill and the rest who wished to continue fighting. Halifax had been part of Neville Chamberlain's immediate circle and was foreign minister at the Munich Conference of 1938, and for a time had been the preferred choice in some Conservative circles to replace Chamberlain after the Norwegian fiasco as many distrusted or disliked Churchill. The changing situation at Dunkirk and the unity of the coalition government defeated this attempt, Halifax was appointed soon after as Ambassador to the USA in order to distance him from any other elements within the British political establishment who opposed the view of Churchill.
Political unity was something Churchill instinctively knew a country needed when its back was up against the wall, in the immediate aftermath of Dunkirk you have to remember that though many soldiers had been evacuated the army had lost virtually all its equipment and Britain was defended by just two fully equipped Canadian divisions - we literally had to beg the Americans to send us a load of rifles that had been mothballed after the First World War. He was also aware of the divisions within the French political class that had undermined their will to fight and had encouraged Petain and Laval to sue for peace with Hitler, the British actually lost more equipment and soldiers in a last ditch effort to keep the French in the war after Dunkirk. Hitler, himself always preferred to work with local collaborators after invading a country and he was known to have been in contact through third parties with the ex-King Edward VIII, who was also known not to be averse to the idea. As such you'll find from June 1940 people like Oswald Mosley and other ex-members of the British Union of Fascists were interned indefinitely. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that if the Germans had successfully invaded they would have used the elderly Lloyd George.
There is a German handbook somewhere, I read it about 20 years ago, that had a huge list in the back of all well known British figures who were to be arrested after a successful invasion. The fact they never got across the Channel meant the country got off very lightly compared to a lot of other areas in Europe.
Political unity was something Churchill instinctively knew a country needed when its back was up against the wall, in the immediate aftermath of Dunkirk you have to remember that though many soldiers had been evacuated the army had lost virtually all its equipment and Britain was defended by just two fully equipped Canadian divisions - we literally had to beg the Americans to send us a load of rifles that had been mothballed after the First World War. He was also aware of the divisions within the French political class that had undermined their will to fight and had encouraged Petain and Laval to sue for peace with Hitler, the British actually lost more equipment and soldiers in a last ditch effort to keep the French in the war after Dunkirk. Hitler, himself always preferred to work with local collaborators after invading a country and he was known to have been in contact through third parties with the ex-King Edward VIII, who was also known not to be averse to the idea. As such you'll find from June 1940 people like Oswald Mosley and other ex-members of the British Union of Fascists were interned indefinitely. I've always had a sneaking suspicion that if the Germans had successfully invaded they would have used the elderly Lloyd George.
There is a German handbook somewhere, I read it about 20 years ago, that had a huge list in the back of all well known British figures who were to be arrested after a successful invasion. The fact they never got across the Channel meant the country got off very lightly compared to a lot of other areas in Europe.
Seagull on the wing
New member
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_Home
Trig,please learn your military history before you make statements like that....I lived through the war and I'm a military historian...take a look at radar stations 1940...link above...we had over 20 radar stations as well as spotters as well as concrete walls to reflect engine noise.
Seagull over Canaryland
Well-known member
Very much this - we definitely had a network of radar masts along the south and east coasts and although the Germans eventually realised the significance of this to our air defence and they did bomb various radar sites but crucially they failed to knock them out. Along with the Luftwaffe failing to persist with bombing RAF airfields beyond use, this was another of Goering's critical failings. As a result we were able to maintain our warning system and scramble fighters just in time, otherwise the outcome of the Battle of Britain could have been so different.
The radar system was backed up by a vast network of observers and listening posts integrated into a very effective telephone communications system that in turn linked to a very efficient RAF command and control system. Military analysts still acknowledge how radical this system was for that time.